Putting the errors to rest

[Pah]

A Talking Paper from Concerned Women of America

• Homosexuals are seeking a special right. They already have the same right to marry the rest of us have-the right to marry a person of the opposite sex. Limiting marriage to one man and one woman doesn't discriminate on the basis of sex or sexual orientation.
  Nope, Homosexuals are seeking the same rights in regard to choice of mate
  
• It denies the self-evident truth of nature that male and female bodies are designed for and complement each other. Opposite-sex marriage is the natural means by which the human race reproduces.
  
  Nope. part A fits in Slot B - and slot C and slot D. Friction can be applied by many parts
  Nope. sex is the means of procreation
  
• Granting same-sex couples a license to marry will not create true marriage. Neither two men nor two women can become one flesh. Licensing the unnatural does not make it natural. It would be a state-sanctioned counterfeit, a sham and a fraud. A licensed electrician cannot produce power by taping two same-sex plugs together. Homosexual sex is dangerous and destructive to the human body and powerless for human reproduction.
  
  Nope. It will be a true marriage in the eyes of the law.
  Nope. One "flesh" is created by any incorporation under law
  Nope. Homosexuality is found throughout nature.
  Nope. No more so than heterosexual sex (non-procreatative in all but a small period of time)
  
• Homosexual marriage will always be an abomination to God regardless of whether a clergyman performs the ceremony. When God calls something unholy, man cannot make it holy or bless it.
  
  Nope. What God puts together is undone by man. God is powerless under the law.
  
• Homosexual marriage is as wrong as giving a man a license to marry his mother or daughter or sister or a group.
  
  Nope. The state has an interest in prohibiting incest - none in prohibiting homosexuality.
  
• Homosexual marriage will harm children by denying them the love and nurture of a mom and dad. The only "procreation" homosexuals can engage in requires that a third party must be brought into the relationship.
  
  Nope.
  Nope. Homosexuals DO reproduce at half to 75% rate of heterosexuals.
  
• Granting a marriage license to homosexuals because they engage in sex is as illogical as granting a medical license to a barber because he wears a white coat or a law license to a salesman because he carries a briefcase. Real doctors, lawyers and the public would suffer as a result of licensing the unqualified and granting them rights, benefits and responsibilities as if they were qualified.
  
  Make up your mind - sex is only for marriage - right?
  
• Homosexual marriage will devalue your marriage. A license to marry is a legal document by which government will treat same-sex marriage as if it were equal to the real thing. A license speaks for the government and will tell society that government says the marriages are equal. Any time a lesser thing is made equal to a greater, the greater is devalued.
  
  Nope. The statement is a flag for an insecure heterosexual marriage
  Nope. Homosexual marriage IS the real thing
  Nope. Marriages are equal - get over it.
  Nope. Homosexual marriage is not "lesser".
  
• The assumption by many is that marriage is just two people with a license who have sex and wear rings. Homosexuals do that?why not give them the license? Engaging in sex doesn't equal marriage. Adults involved in incest have sex too; should government call it marriage and license them? Certainly not.
  
  We've been over that!
  
• The biggest problem we have in getting people, especially younger ones, to understand why marriage is devalued by the existence of a counterfeit is that much of the public does not value marriage at all. Adultery is no big deal. No- fault divorce is tolerated. Absentee fathers and mothers devalue marriage. Unmarried pregnancies are common. Fornication is "normal." When we make the case against homosexual marriage, we need to speak against these other problems that devalue marriage too. As we acknowledge these problems we can emphasize that legalizing homosexual marriage will compound the problems, not solve or lessen them.
  
  Then why isn't millions of dollars being spent by the religious industry to cure those problems Actions speak louder than words

-pah-

 

[Green Gaia]

Why do these people hate us so much?

 

[Lightkeeper]

They don't hate us, they hate themselves.

 

[Green Gaia]

I don't know. I sense a very real hatred in those comments (and from that website) directed at homosexuals. It's very disheartening and disturbing.

 

[Lightkeeper]

That hatred comes from within them. We project ourselves onto other people.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

They don't hate us, they hate themselves.

I agree - except that I would add "fear" to hatred. I think they fear homosexuals far more than they hate them. They fear what they don't understand, and it is far easier to hide behind "God says it's a sin" than it is to stand up for what they must know (deep in their heart) is right. They simply don't have the courage to examine the poison spewed forth on their behalf, let alone acknowledge that homosexuals just might be human after all - it would mean that their belief system might not be exactly right. It would also require that they tell people that they have looked up to all their lives that they disagree - a tough thing to do when you are lacking in courage.

I think, also, that there is a significant difference between those that seek to understand, and those that simply buy into the party line. Even though I disagree with SOG on this issue, I do not begrudge him his stance. I look at SOG and see an individual that seeks to understand, and still loves others, regardless of the outcome. When I see others (like Jerry Falwell, etc.) attack homosexuals simply because they live a different life, it incenses me. These charlatans have no desire to spread the love that makes this world so much better - they simply want power. I truly make no distinction between Hitler preaching "the evils of the world are the fault of the Jew", and the religious bigots pumping weak minded sheep full of hatred for homosexuals. Both are in pursuit of power - nothing more, nothing less.

A bigot, is a bigot, is a bigot.
TVOR

 

[Pah]

A bigot, is a bigot, is a bigot.
TVOR

In this case a homophobe

-pah-

 

[Sunstone]

Homosexual marriage will devalue your marriage. A license to marry is a legal document by which government will treat same-sex marriage as if it were equal to the real thing. A license speaks for the government and will tell society that government says the marriages are equal. Any time a lesser thing is made equal to a greater, the greater is devalued.

This argument in particular has never made sense to me. How can what the homosexual couple down the street does devalue my marriage? It seems to me the only two people who could devalue my marriage are myself and my spouse. Furthermore, it seems to me that it is mere commonsense that the only two people who could devalue my marriage are myself and my spouse.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

In this case a homophobe -pah-

I stand corrected - a homophobe is a homophobe is a bigot

TVOR

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I stand corrected - a homophobe is a homophobe is a bigot

Wait, I like this version, too: "A jerk is a jerk is a jerk."

Edited to say: I apologize. The confusion or fear we're talking about does not make anyone a jerk, and that makes me a jerk for saying so!

Bad Meg/ Feathers! :bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

 

[Pah]

I stand corrected - a homophobe is a homophobe is a bigot

TVOR

Awww, I was just adding to what you said

-pah-

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Okay - now I've got it - A homophobe is a bigot is a jerk!!
I love this site - I learn something new everyday.

TVOR

 

[Pah]

Okay - now I've got it - A homophobe is a bigot is a jerk!!
I love this site - I learn something new everyday.

TVOR

Not that we would call anyone a jerk

-pah-

 

[Lightkeeper]

I know this is fun, but I agree that bigotry and homophobia is fear based. I can't go so far as to call a fearful person a jerk.

 

[Sunstone]

There's something about the talking points of the group, "Concerned Women for America", that suggests to me they are not very bright. For instance: it would seem they are somehow able to believe that when things go wrong in their own marriages, that can be attributed to the presence in society of homosexual couples. That seems stupid to me. And I wonder if stupidity does not sometimes come from fear. I mean, when we are especially fearful, are we not likely to say and do all sorts of stupid things. Perhaps their fear of homosexuality has made them stupid.

 

[Lightkeeper]

These women are displaying ignorance. Is ignorance fear based or is it just lack of opportunity to learn something new? A refusal to learn something new could be fear based.

 

[Sunstone]

These women are displaying ignorance. Is ignorance fear based or is it just lack of opportunity to learn something new? A refusal to learn something new could be fear based.

Very good point, Lightkeeper! I would imagine that these women have (in today's society) all sorts of opportunities to learn something new about homosexuality. Therefore, I think their ignorance is based on a refusal to learn. And that leads me to suppose that it could be fear based.

They seem wholly willing to make other people the scapegoats of their fears. That shows both a lack of emotional discipline, and a lack of sound morals.

 

[Mister Emu]

Nope. Homosexuality is found throughout nature.

So is the killing of offspring, that does not make it natural for us to do. Natural for one is not natural for all.

If you call somone a bigot for opposing your want of marriage, then you are just as much a bigot for opposing someone else's want of marriage.

Why don't I hear you arguing for NAMBLA(ugh, makes me sick) rights, or incestuous marriage? I will say here that I am completley and vehemently(NAMBLA) against them. How many here will argue for polygamy? If heterosexual love is no better than homosexual love, then who are you to say that your love is better than anyone elses no matter whom(or how many) they love, and that you deserve to express this through marriage and they do not?

 

[linwood]

So is the killing of offspring, that does not make it natural for us to do. Natural for one is not natural for all.

The killing of offspring is rejected in society because it harms someone.
Why is homosexuality to be rejected?
I`ll ask again..
Can anyone here give a valid reason to deny homosexual marriage that is not based on faith or religious text?

If you call somone a bigot for opposing your want of marriage, then you are just as much a bigot for opposing someone else's want of marriage.

huh?

Why don't I hear you arguing for NAMBLA(ugh, makes me sick) rights, or incestuous marriage?

NAMBLA causes harm to people.
How does homosexuality cause harm?
Who does it harm?
Comparing pedophilia to homosexuality is ignorant.

Incest can cause harm to offspring.
Can anyone here give a valid reason to deny homosexual marriage that is not based on faith or religious text?

How many here will argue for polygamy?

I will...I dig the idea.
Unfortunately my wife isn`t so into it so it`s not for me.
You know..because I wouldn`t want to HARM her.
I don`t personally have a problem with polygamy so I would argue it in the afirmative.
I`d also use a crapload of Biblical verse to support my position.

Can anyone here give a valid reason to deny homosexual marriage that is not based on faith or religious text?

If heterosexual love is no better than homosexual love, then who are you to say that your love is better than anyone elses no matter whom(or how many) they love, and that you deserve to express this through marriage and they do not?

I don`t see anyone besides Christians saying that their love is better than anyone elses.
If you`re refering to NAMBLA you cannot appeal to love as an argument considering it`s not mutual.

Can anyone here give a valid reason to deny homosexual marriage that is not based on faith or religious text?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Just wanted to apologize to everyone for my atrocious 'jerk' comment! I've edited it to reflect what I should have thought out before saying, but I'm very sorry for offending anyone.