Putting out the Black Flame

[The Sum of Awe]

I doubt many here would actually apply this concept to their every day lives, or perhaps not in the way commonly understood. Maybe some do.

And I know it is metaphor according to most theistic Satanists, however I'm curious on what you think:

In legend, the serpent gave mankind the black flame, and many consider this act to be truly heroic. It is the serpent that gave us reason and logic (metaphorically speaking), and I've noticed many self-proclaimed theistic Satanists who do use this metaphor in their philosophy. But on the other hand, how can we be sure that this black flame isn't merely a delusion? Perhaps the reason and logic is not correct, they are tricks to convince the mind to have negative views about God. How would we know?

 

[Mindmaster]

I doubt many here would actually apply this concept to their every day lives, or perhaps not in the way commonly understood. Maybe some do.

And I know it is metaphor according to most theistic Satanists, however I'm curious on what you think:

In legend, the serpent gave mankind the black flame, and many consider this act to be truly heroic. It is the serpent that gave us reason and logic (metaphorically speaking), and I've noticed many self-proclaimed theistic Satanists who do use this metaphor in their philosophy. But on the other hand, how can we be sure that this black flame isn't merely a delusion? Perhaps the reason and logic is not correct, they are tricks to convince the mind to have negative views about God. How would we know?

Actually, most Theistic Satanists don't believe in "The Black Flame" it's a LaVey thing. =) Theistic Satanism at it's core is very simple -- it is living in accordance with ones nature first and foremost. What that means is obviously different for each person so I would be rather presumptuous to say what that means for anyone besides me. If that is the "black flame" then we're merely participating by accident. =) Anyway, at least in my case I find it hard to describe Satan without the word belief but it generally isn't the case that we would believe in the way that christians do. I use the word merely as a convenience and the fact that it's "generally right" without being completely wrong. Christians use the word more in the sense of blind faith whereas a Theistic Satanist uses it more in the sense of knowing via various experiments and time. But, like any other emotive state it has to be experienced to be understood -- thus our use of the word belief is somewhat lacking. =)

Theistic Satanists generally become so via a period of at least initially being atheist. (As odd as that seems..) The Atheist world view eventually doesn't seem to adequately describe the situation for some and therein they become something else. Some come to the conclusion the originating point is Satan some come to other conclusions. However, this belief in Satan (in whatever conception one can accept) is what makes one a true Satanist if we get down to brass tacks. There isn't any time to hate on Jehovah because we don't even actually think he exists and we got enough to do already.

The serpent figure is not necessarily associated with Satan, but more often the Egyptian Apep who the ancient Hebrews merely borrowed the symbolism. He was a personification of chaos and darkness and was constantly at war with Ma'at who was a personification of order/truth. There are a lot of Hebrew borrowings from the Egyptians (many myths, the ten commandments, and whatnot) so it isn't too surprising. I feel Jehovah is basically invented being that it seems to be more of an amalgamation of various other religions rather than a being of its own.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

In legend, the serpent gave mankind the black flame, and many consider this act to be truly heroic. It is the serpent that gave us reason and logic (metaphorically speaking), and I've noticed many self-proclaimed theistic Satanists who do use this metaphor in their philosophy. But on the other hand, how can we be sure that this black flame isn't merely a delusion? Perhaps the reason and logic is not correct, they are tricks to convince the mind to have negative views about God. How would we know?

Not a theistic Satanist, but I would like to point out how comical it would be for this "black flame" to be ultimately self-defeating. If thinking is bad, it was deduced by thinking.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I doubt many here would actually apply this concept to their every day lives, or perhaps not in the way commonly understood. Maybe some do.

And I know it is metaphor according to most theistic Satanists, however I'm curious on what you think:

In legend, the serpent gave mankind the black flame, and many consider this act to be truly heroic. It is the serpent that gave us reason and logic (metaphorically speaking), and I've noticed many self-proclaimed theistic Satanists who do use this metaphor in their philosophy. But on the other hand, how can we be sure that this black flame isn't merely a delusion? Perhaps the reason and logic is not correct, they are tricks to convince the mind to have negative views about God. How would we know?

Why would we believe that? That sounds like something a fearful Christian would say. :areyoucra

By the way, I'm technically a Theistic Satanist and I do make use of the Black Flame symbolism and it's not because of LaVey. It has more to do with my Gnostic leanings.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Why would we believe that? That sounds like something a fearful Christian would say. :areyoucra

By the way, I'm technically a Theistic Satanist and I do make use of the Black Flame symbolism and it's not because of LaVey. It has more to do with my Gnostic leanings.

I never said theistic satanists believe it. I was only saying that as far as we know, it's possible.

 

[agorman]

In legend, the serpent gave mankind the black flame

Maybe you should use an apple as a symbol instead of the black flame?

 

[Liu]

Oh, some thread-necromancy? Well, interesting enough topic.

Maybe you should use an apple as a symbol instead of the black flame?

The apple would be a good symbol for the mythological aspects of the black flame, i.e. one of its origin myths.
But of all LHP-religions I can think of, the only one that frequently uses the apple as a symbol is Discordianism, and in reference to a quite different myth.
I'm not that much interested in the rebellion-against-demiurge-aspects, nor do I consider the black flame something supernatural in the sense of separate from nature - but then again, I'm a pantheist, so I don't believe anything is separate from nature. I would describe the black flame as one's core-self, one's innermost nature, or perhaps even as one's subconscious, or at least part thereof.

Btw, perhaps the term originated with LaVey, but I mainly see it used by Setians and Gnostics, both of which tend to be fairly theistic in one way or another.

 

[agorman]

Oh, some thread-necromancy? Well, interesting enough topic.

LOL, sorry, I have the bad habit of not looking at thread dates before I post.

The apple would be a good symbol for the mythological aspects of the black flame, i.e. one of its origin myths.
But of all LHP-religions I can think of, the only one that frequently uses the apple as a symbol is Discordianism, and in reference to a quite different myth.
I'm not that much interested in the rebellion-against-demiurge-aspects, nor do I consider the black flame something supernatural in the sense of separate from nature - but then again, I'm a pantheist, so I don't believe anything is separate from nature. I would describe the black flame as one's core-self, one's innermost nature, or perhaps even as one's subconscious, or at least part thereof.

Btw, perhaps the term originated with LaVey, but I mainly see it used by Setians and Gnostics, both of which tend to be fairly theistic in one way or another.

I think the black flame is a symbol of the true self as a source of low frequency divine energy ("darkness"). Yes, all is "Nature" or derives from it, but our source of the black flame is not material nature per se.

About the apple itself as a symbol, it's meaning as with maybe all symbols, depends on the one who uses it. Now on the effect it has in the astral plane or in one's minds, maybe we have to experiment with it to find out. The apple is interesting because of the fact that cutting it in a certain way gives you a 5 pointed star. And its relationship with youth and health.

 

[Liu]

I think the black flame is a symbol of the true self as a source of low frequency divine energy ("darkness"). Yes, all is "Nature" or derives from it, but our source of the black flame is not material nature per se.

I assume that matter and mind, or the world and the divine, are just two sides of the same coin, though.

About the apple itself as a symbol, it's meaning as with maybe all symbols, depends on the one who uses it. Now on the effect it has in the astral plane or in one's minds, maybe we have to experiment with it to find out. The apple is interesting because of the fact that cutting it in a certain way gives you a 5 pointed star. And its relationship with youth and health.

Yeah, I like its symbolisms - and you don't need to slice it in any specific manner, anything that's not too vertical works basically, just bite into it until you get to the core and with few luck you see something 5-pointed. Happens more often than not.