Purpose of the Hijab

[Nakosis]

@Ellen Brown "A muslim man said I am so old (72) that I do not need Hijab. I want to show my devotion to Allah SWT."

So the purpose of the hijab is modesty? To curtail the lustful desires of men? No offence intended being an old codger myself, as you get up in years you don't exactly have a line of people beating down your door to have sex with you.

At first this seems a little barbaric/archaic but men are men.

It's in the nature of most men to have an almost overwhelming desire to have sex with a beautiful person. It's reality, it's natural, even used by the advertising agencies. Many youtube videos images show provocatively posed or clothed women in order to increase viewership.

Consider the metoo movement. Guys are guys. To be polite/civilized/respectful men have to act against their nature.

Maybe, Muhammad accepted this understanding of most men having a natural attraction for women came up with a grab to help me to curtail this natural attraction. Perhaps this is obvious but maybe not so much for westerners.

It seems oppressive to our culture however, maybe it is a matter of modesty and practicality. It's religious garb, meh, but perhaps in this case it is religious grab with an actual purpose/function for once?

Does this change you view about the hijab, burka, burkini?
Is there other religious garb that serves an actual purpose?

 

[Estro Felino]

btw...even Saint Paul said something about the veil and women's hair....
he describes beautiful women as temptresses...as if normal men had no self-control

sick person

 

[YmirGF]

I once had a Muslima tell me that she wore it because it made her feel more spiritual and she asked why we see a crazy lady in a bedsheet (her words) where she sees a holy woman trying to be pleasing to god. I tried to explain that my brain simply does not associate the two in that way. I see a person who is subjugated by a mindset and it's not a pretty picture. The idea that it was pleasing to a deity strikes me, to this day, as being more than pathetic reasoning.

 

[Nakosis]

btw...even Saint Paul said something about the veil and women's hair....
he describes beautiful women as temptresses...as if normal men had no self-control

sick person

Consider the necessity of the metoo movement, men have very little self-control. It's systemic right?
I get it, folks are supposed to have self-control but, reality seems to reject this notion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Consider the metoo movement. Guys are guys. To be polite/civilized/respectful men have to act against their nature.

Speak for yerself, bub.

 

[Nakosis]

Re: That video

Clearly those people are not concerned for whether she is okay when she falls in the Burka, but it might be worth noting that some Muslim women think it is improper to be touched by a man who is not their husband. I know some women who have refused handshakes and physical help because of this.

As for the discussion topic, I don't think there's much I have to contribute.

Yes, I know but I've decided I don't care. I'd rather help a person than worry about their religious proclivities. It's just a principle for me. I don't fell I should have an obligation to change my behavior base on someone else's religious beliefs.

 

[Nakosis]

I once had a Muslima tell me that she wore it because it made her feel more spiritual and she asked why we see a crazy lady in a bedsheet (her words) where she sees a holy woman trying to be pleasing to god. I tried to explain that my brain simply does not associate the two in that way. I see a person who is subjugated by a mindset and it's not a pretty picture. The idea that it was pleasing to a deity strikes me, to this day, as being more than pathetic reasoning.

I think her view is wrong. Of course their religious feelings are their business, but I don't think there is any real spiritual purpose here. God's going to like you better because of the clothes you wear?

 

[Estro Felino]

Consider the necessity of the metoo movement, men have very little self-control. It's systemic right?
I get it, folks are supposed to have self-control but, reality seems to reject this notion.

The metoo movement is supported by sick feminists who say that a man that hugs a woman is a rapist

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

@Ellen Brown "A muslim man said I am so old (72) that I do not need Hijab. I want to show my devotion to Allah SWT."

So the purpose of the hijab is modesty? To curtail the lustful desires of men? No offence intended being an old codger myself, as you get up in years you don't exactly have a line of people beating down your door to have sex with you.

At first this seems a little barbaric/archaic but men are men.

It's in the nature of most men to have an almost overwhelming desire to have sex with a beautiful person. It's reality, it's natural, even used by the advertising agencies. Many youtube videos images show provocatively posed or clothed women in order to increase viewership.

Consider the metoo movement. Guys are guys. To be polite/civilized/respectful men have to act against their nature.

Maybe, Muhammad accepted this understanding of most men having a natural attraction for women came up with a grab to help me to curtail this natural attraction. Perhaps this is obvious but maybe not so much for westerners.

It seems oppressive to our culture however, maybe it is a matter of modesty and practicality. It's religious garb, meh, but perhaps in this case it is religious grab with an actual purpose/function for once?

Does this change you view about the hijab, burka, burkini?
Is there other religious garb that serves an actual purpose?

I'm having some difficulty understanding what you are getting at. However if it might help, there are different levels of Hijab in Islam that I am aware of. I will explain them here without going into all the details:

1- Before reaching the age of 9 girls don't need to have hijab, however this does not mean they can wear inappropriate clothing.

2- After the age of 9:

a- They can appear however they please for their husbands.

b- They do not need Hijab, but must still wear appropriate clothing in front of their biological siblings, aunts and uncles and all levels of great aunts and uncles), grandparents (all levels), children, grandchildren (all levels). Nearly the same applies when they appear in front of boys that have not reached the age of puberty (unless the boy is aware of sexual matters). They don't need hijab when appearing before most other women. Private parts must not be shown under any condition.

c- When appearing before other men other than those mentioned above, they must observe hijab and cover all their bodies except the hands and face.

e- When some necessities occurs, the rules can be overturned, like when a woman has absolutely no choice but to show a part of her body to a male doctor.
​

3- When reaching old age, the laws change and they do not need hijab but must still wear appropriate clothing. However I don't know the details for this.

However, the religious fatwas might differ according to different scholars.

Edit: You can't touch or shake the hand of a person that you must cover your body from (and vice versa), although there are exceptions like medical or life saving or ...

 

[Nakosis]

So, you would touch someone else, even if they didn't want you to?

How would I know that? Just some random person walking down the street. It of course they told me, that's fine, you can still help without touching.

Clearly there are some instances where I would do this, if someone's life was at risk or they were clearly in harms way, but I don't reckon I would for them falling over, I would verbally ask if I could help them before doing so.

I wouldn't want them feeling guilty or upset because of my intent to help.

Can't stop people from feeling guilty or upset. Folks are incline to finds ways of bad about things regardless of what one does or doesn't do.

 

[Nakosis]

The metoo movement is supported by sick feminists who say that a man that hugs a woman is a rapist

Fair enough but there is a reality of men who actually step over the line. Imagine a Hollywood where all the women wore burkas...

 

[Nakosis]

I'm having some difficulty understanding what you are getting at. However if it might help, there are different levels of Hijab in Islam that I am aware of. I will explain them here without going into all the details:

1- Before reaching the age of 9 girls don't need to have hijab, however this does not mean they can wear inappropriate clothing.

2- After the age of 9:

a- They can appear however they please for their husbands.

b- They do not need Hijab, but must still wear appropriate clothing in front of their biological siblings, aunts and uncles and all levels of great aunts and uncles), grandparents (all levels), children, grandchildren (all levels). Nearly the same applies when they appear in front of boys that have not reached the age of puberty (unless the boy is aware of sexual matters). They don't need hijab when appearing before most other women. Private parts must not be shown under any condition.

c- When appearing before other men other than those mentioned above, they must observe hijab and cover all their bodies except the hands and face.

e- When some necessities occurs, the rules can be overturned, like when a woman has absolutely no choice but to show a part of her body to a male doctor.
​

3- When reaching old age, the laws change and they do not need hijab but must still wear appropriate clothing. However I don't know the details for this.

However, the religious fatwas might differ according to different scholars.

Edit: You can't touch or shake the hand of a person that you must cover your body from (and vice versa), although there are exceptions like medical or life saving or ...

Ok, thank you for explaining the rules. Is the purpose for these rules ever explained?

 

[Nakosis]

Speak for yerself, bub.

I always do.

 

[Estro Felino]

Fair enough but there is a reality of men who actually step over the line. Imagine a Hollywood where all the women wore burkas...

I think cultural context matters.
I mean...when you grow up in a provincial town of Southern Italy you see young males touching a little too much girls and girls are ok with that.
I mean...l'omo è omo (man is male) , they repeat...as u said implicitly

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Here is one Muslim scholar arguing against the hijab
FATWA: On Hijab (The Hair-covering of Women) UPDATED

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Ok, thank you for explaining the rules. Is the purpose for these rules ever explained?

Obviously sexual matters play a great role in this story. Regardless of Islam, if your religious beliefs prohibit fornication and adultery then these rules are reasonable. However, if your beliefs do not prohibit fornication and adultery or you you are ok with fornication, then these rules would seem ridiculous. You have to JUDGE these rules based on the intended audience. Those rules are for those that believe in Islam and would benefit from them in practicing other Islamic orders (I'm sure there are similar rules in Judaism and somewhat similar ones although not this comprehensive Christianity).

 

[Cooky]

btw...even Saint Paul said something about the veil and women's hair....
he describes beautiful women as temptresses...as if normal men had no self-control

sick person

Surely he was referring to the harebrains that existed then and ultimately still do to this day unfortunately. just kidding, everyone deserves the right to life.

...But for us more sophisticated folk, sex is not on our brains at every waking second.

 

[74x12]

he describes beautiful women as temptresses...as if normal men had no self-control

Citation needed? Sorry, don't recall that anywhere in Paul's epistles.

 

[Cooky]

@Ellen Brown "A muslim man said I am so old (72) that I do not need Hijab. I want to show my devotion to Allah SWT."

So the purpose of the hijab is modesty? To curtail the lustful desires of men? No offence intended being an old codger myself, as you get up in years you don't exactly have a line of people beating down your door to have sex with you.

At first this seems a little barbaric/archaic but men are men.

It's in the nature of most men to have an almost overwhelming desire to have sex with a beautiful person. It's reality, it's natural, even used by the advertising agencies. Many youtube videos images show provocatively posed or clothed women in order to increase viewership.

Consider the metoo movement. Guys are guys. To be polite/civilized/respectful men have to act against their nature.

Maybe, Muhammad accepted this understanding of most men having a natural attraction for women came up with a grab to help me to curtail this natural attraction. Perhaps this is obvious but maybe not so much for westerners.

It seems oppressive to our culture however, maybe it is a matter of modesty and practicality. It's religious garb, meh, but perhaps in this case it is religious grab with an actual purpose/function for once?

Does this change you view about the hijab, burka, burkini?
Is there other religious garb that serves an actual purpose?

Some areas in the world contain more harebrains than others it seems.

...We all saw what happened at the public swimming pools in Germany.

 

[Nakosis]

Some areas in the world contain more harebrains than others it seems.

...We all saw what happened at the public swimming pools in Germany.

Apparently we, the US, have plenty of harebrained in Hollywood.