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Purpose of life.
- Thread starter jeffrey
- Start date
I can't argue with that!jeffrey said:
Okay, I'm confused. Maybe I'm getting you mixed up with somebody else, jeffrey, but I thought I'd seen posts of yours that implied that all religions were equally true and that it didn't matter if their beliefs contradicted one another. Would you either correct me or explain how your earlier remarks tie into this most recent one?
ΩRôghênΩ
Disciple of Light
Ive answered these kind of questions so many times. Why do we die? because there is only 1 point to live, that is to pass on to God in which we must die to do so. Why is there evil, because without evil there would be no sin, without sin there would be no choice, because eveyone makes bad choices, and without that there would be no free will. If we do not make a concious decision we are robots. God wants us to choose not be forced to love him. forced love is artificial. choice to love is real.
Hey Jeffrey, just got in from work and I'm assuming from one of your posts that you probobly wont read this until tomorrow, but that's cool. I understand where you're coming from with the whole Tom Sawyer situation but my point is that in my eyes I have no reason to not think that The Quran is protected by God, and that Mohammed was also. God promised us that it would be preserved forever, and he promised Mohammed victory, growth and guidance, and history shows me that this also happened. Now you choose not to believe, and that is fine, but let's get back onto topic, which is why does God allow bad things to happen.
I've been giving you a few scenarios which I feel make sense and are helpful in understanding the whole "why" question, but since you have not responded to one of them, I will give you another one which is basically along the same lines as the ones I've given before.
I grew up my whole life listening to my dad. He told me not to do wrong. He told me to be good to others. He told me to respect my mother, and take care of my family. I love my dad my whole life and suddenly I am struck with illness and I'm going to die within months. Now should I blame my dad for this? Will my dad stop loving me? Will I stop loving my dad? No,no, and no.
Now let's say instead of being struck with illness, I murder someone. Is this my dads fault? I don't think so.
Does God BEG us to not do any harm to others, to not steal, to not kill, to not lie, to not disrespect? Yes. He stresses it over and over and over within the text of Quran and the same goes for the Bible. If we all choose God, and all follow God and his guidelines there would be peace and love. As for illness, it's a part of life. Every human being on the face of this earth will taste death in one way or another. I've told you already, I've been around people who are sick and are dying and at the same time they are at complete peace with themselves, and instead of blaming God they are embracing him even more. Personally, I'd take a lifetime of illness for an eternity of Bliss, but alhumduileh (Thank God) I'm not in that situation. Everything is a test. When a person becomes ill, it's not just a test to that person but it is a test to the people who are around them. What are we gonna do to help? How will the family help deal with the situation? Will this sick person be taken care of? These kinds of things need to be taken into consideration. Don't for a second think that God looks a person who is ill and see's it as a form of Entertainment, because I highly doubt it.
Now I'm about to repeat myself again, but you're repeating yourself also. The sick and needy can be taken care of if every person who lives on earth gave a percentage of there earnings towards the needy. If this were done, the problem would be solved. God tells us in the Quran that it is a duty to give charity, to be exact it says that 3% of our earnings a year must go to those in need, but we just choose not to, so again, it's not Gods fault, it's ours.
Please know Jeffrey that God trusted us. He trusted you and me. He truly believed that if He let us live here on Earth for a time being, that we would choose good over bad. He loved us enough to give us what the angels wish they had, which was free will. He told us what the consequences would be if we chose good, and He told us what it would be if we chose bad. You have seen the bad Jeffrey, can you at least agree that it is what God says it is? That it is evil? That it is harmful to the human being? A person you know has been raped, and even though you were not the one who was raped, it has effected you drastically.Does this not make you think? Now tell me, have you not seen Good? I'm sure you have, now which choice is better? No matter what happens to me in life, I will always choose good, especially when things are going bad, because if things are going bad, and I choose a bad path at the same time, it can't become good.
God helped Moses perform miracles, God helped Noah prevail in a miracle type fashion, God helped Jesus perform miracles, and God helped Abraham with miraculous things, and he guided Mohammed in a way (to me) seems like a miracle, and ALLL the people who witnessed it, agreed that it was from God, but evenutally they all turned away. Why should God keep proving himself to us when it is clear that no matter what he does until the day he shows His face that we are going to just turn our backs on him? How is that fair to Him? What have we done to deserve it (as a whole)? With all the poverty going on in the world, we do nothing about it, but yet we believe that God owes us a favor and should prove himself to us again? What you think God should fix, we can fix ourselves. You want proof? Look at the sun, the moon, breathe in the air, look at the stars. This earth is made for you and me. It is PERFECT for the human being. We are killing eachother, crime rates are disgusting and God owes us proof when he has already done it time and time again? Unfortunately (Islamic view point) the next time God proves himself to us, it will be the end.
Peace and Blessings everyone
Ezzedean Fadel
I've been giving you a few scenarios which I feel make sense and are helpful in understanding the whole "why" question, but since you have not responded to one of them, I will give you another one which is basically along the same lines as the ones I've given before.
I grew up my whole life listening to my dad. He told me not to do wrong. He told me to be good to others. He told me to respect my mother, and take care of my family. I love my dad my whole life and suddenly I am struck with illness and I'm going to die within months. Now should I blame my dad for this? Will my dad stop loving me? Will I stop loving my dad? No,no, and no.
Now let's say instead of being struck with illness, I murder someone. Is this my dads fault? I don't think so.
Does God BEG us to not do any harm to others, to not steal, to not kill, to not lie, to not disrespect? Yes. He stresses it over and over and over within the text of Quran and the same goes for the Bible. If we all choose God, and all follow God and his guidelines there would be peace and love. As for illness, it's a part of life. Every human being on the face of this earth will taste death in one way or another. I've told you already, I've been around people who are sick and are dying and at the same time they are at complete peace with themselves, and instead of blaming God they are embracing him even more. Personally, I'd take a lifetime of illness for an eternity of Bliss, but alhumduileh (Thank God) I'm not in that situation. Everything is a test. When a person becomes ill, it's not just a test to that person but it is a test to the people who are around them. What are we gonna do to help? How will the family help deal with the situation? Will this sick person be taken care of? These kinds of things need to be taken into consideration. Don't for a second think that God looks a person who is ill and see's it as a form of Entertainment, because I highly doubt it.
Now I'm about to repeat myself again, but you're repeating yourself also. The sick and needy can be taken care of if every person who lives on earth gave a percentage of there earnings towards the needy. If this were done, the problem would be solved. God tells us in the Quran that it is a duty to give charity, to be exact it says that 3% of our earnings a year must go to those in need, but we just choose not to, so again, it's not Gods fault, it's ours.
Please know Jeffrey that God trusted us. He trusted you and me. He truly believed that if He let us live here on Earth for a time being, that we would choose good over bad. He loved us enough to give us what the angels wish they had, which was free will. He told us what the consequences would be if we chose good, and He told us what it would be if we chose bad. You have seen the bad Jeffrey, can you at least agree that it is what God says it is? That it is evil? That it is harmful to the human being? A person you know has been raped, and even though you were not the one who was raped, it has effected you drastically.Does this not make you think? Now tell me, have you not seen Good? I'm sure you have, now which choice is better? No matter what happens to me in life, I will always choose good, especially when things are going bad, because if things are going bad, and I choose a bad path at the same time, it can't become good.
God helped Moses perform miracles, God helped Noah prevail in a miracle type fashion, God helped Jesus perform miracles, and God helped Abraham with miraculous things, and he guided Mohammed in a way (to me) seems like a miracle, and ALLL the people who witnessed it, agreed that it was from God, but evenutally they all turned away. Why should God keep proving himself to us when it is clear that no matter what he does until the day he shows His face that we are going to just turn our backs on him? How is that fair to Him? What have we done to deserve it (as a whole)? With all the poverty going on in the world, we do nothing about it, but yet we believe that God owes us a favor and should prove himself to us again? What you think God should fix, we can fix ourselves. You want proof? Look at the sun, the moon, breathe in the air, look at the stars. This earth is made for you and me. It is PERFECT for the human being. We are killing eachother, crime rates are disgusting and God owes us proof when he has already done it time and time again? Unfortunately (Islamic view point) the next time God proves himself to us, it will be the end.
Peace and Blessings everyone
Ezzedean Fadel
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
Ezz, I'm posting from a phone. Will be home this afternoon to reply in detail. I believe there is a God. I just don't think he is who people think he is. The 1st part of your post, lets reverse this, your son is sick. You created the illness that made him sick. You have the power to cure him. Would you? Or would you let him suffer?
jeffrey said:
I'd obviously cure him, but if I did cure him it would have been with something that God created, not me. So technically I couldn't have done it without Him.
Here is an interesting story from the Quran that I feel has a lot to do with this conversation. In Sura 2:30 God is talking to the angels about Adam. He tells them "I will create a vicegerent on earth." When God tells the angles this, they ask God an interesting question. "Will you place therein(on earth)one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate thy praises and glorify Thy holy name?" This question the Angels ask is a very good one. The Angels are created as servants of God. They aren't like you and me, they don't possess free will. So what they are asking is, why would you place people on earth who are going to cause mischief and bloodshed while they(the angels) do nothing but praise and serve God? God's reply to them AT FIRST was very simple and He said, "I know what ye know not"
God went on to teach Adam "the nature of things" and He(God) bestowed knowledge onto him, then He commanded Adam to speak that knowledge to the angels, and when Adam was finished doing this God proceeded to ask the angels, "Tell me the nature of these if ye are right" So he practically says, explain to me what Adam just said to you, and show me that you understood what he was talking about. What did the angels say in return? "Glory to Thee: of knowledge, we have none, save what Thou has taught us: in truth it is Thou who is perfect in knowledge and wisdom."
So the angels are now saying we don't understand what Adam was just trying to explain to us, but obviously you do (God) so we're gonna TRUST you.
Now why did I show that sura in this convo? Because we're in the same boat man. The way those angels had to understand is the same way we have to understand. There is so much we just don't know about ourselves. Every human being has questions, and I believe we will have a chance to ask them, becasue there IS an answer, and I believe it's God who will answer them.
jeffrey said:
So who do you think He is?
I see God as someone who is going to live up to His word, and as someone who has never lied to me. Everything that God has warned us about in text is happening, he doesn't warn us so we can stop it from happening because we can't and wont stop it...... He warns us so that we know WHEN it's happening.
Now I'm gonna go get some sleep.
Peace Jeffrey, and anyone who happens to read this post.
Ezzedean
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
In short, I don't believe in a God that creates things just to serve him. I believe the bible and the Quran were written by man and God had nothing to do with it. Now for the sake of arguement, go back to the question about your sick son and answer as if there is no God, or maybe you are God.
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
I also don't believe God wants us to serve him. I don't believe that is our purpose on earth to serve God. Why would he need servants? He can create any need he has. People have servants to feel powerful, and because they are to lazy to do things themselves. To say Angels were created to serve God makes them nothing more then slaves. If that's what an angel is, I'll pass.
ChrisP
Veteran Member
:clap Exactly!! From a Christian perspective what BC is saying makes sense, in that God created man to serve him to prove their worthiness of heaven. But then the question immediately arises, why does a formless omniscient omnipotent being require servants? Or does he just want company (what with us being in his image and all)? Does God get lonely?jeffrey said:
I lub playing :devil: advocate.Anyway all these things are unanswerable, and do they really need an answer? Because all reasons for doing things are determined by circumstance; my firm belief is...
The purpose of life is what you choose it to be.
Anyway how's things Jeff
haven't had a chance to chat in a while.
Would it make more sense if I were to suggest that you think of it this way ?:-
We are all 'parts of God'; the whole of humanity, the animal world, everything that we know about and can see (and, presumably those 'bits' we can't see) are all God. Each soul is like a grain of sand on the beach; the beach is God.............
So, in fact, that is why there can be no heave nor hell; because at the end of the day, we will all be "one with God". Does that make any sense?
We are all 'parts of God'; the whole of humanity, the animal world, everything that we know about and can see (and, presumably those 'bits' we can't see) are all God. Each soul is like a grain of sand on the beach; the beach is God.............
So, in fact, that is why there can be no heave nor hell; because at the end of the day, we will all be "one with God". Does that make any sense?
ChrisP
Veteran Member
Oh just sitting here with most of Wellington's internet down, and a half a dozen CEO's calling every 5 minutes..... GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAjeffrey said:Going well! And you? Will be home in about 9 hours. Got yard work to do. Some tilling, some mowing, some seeding and planting.. But I will find the time to get on line! Got to do some work in Rebecca's MSN group, pspfriendsandfriendship.