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Featured Purgatory

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Spiderman, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    Romans 8:37-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

    :)
     
  2. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    Note Paul said he was convinced that the "future" can't seperate him from God.
     
  3. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    That is correct....nothing of an external nature can separate us from God....but there is a separation that comes from within. Sinning unrepentantly indicates a wicked heart which can separate us from God because there is no repentance. No repentance means no forgiveness.

    Read it again and take into account other scriptures. Peter said that to sin after gaining knowledge of God and Christ would be worse than if one had never known Christ's teachings.

    “Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away." (Acts 3:19 NLT)

    Don't fool yourself that you can sin with impunity because Christ paid for it....that is taking advantage of a gift that will be removed from willful sinners. To repent means to abhor your sin so that you will never do it again.

    1 John 3:6 NLT..."Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is."
     
  4. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    I appreciate your concern. I'm not being sarcastic. Everyone has an important part in God's plan. Thank you.

    The point that I was originally trying to make was that the "thing" you call sin doesn't seperate me from God unless I think that the "thing" you call sin seperates me from God. The faith God gives you is different than the faith God gives me, who are we to judge God's servants? If remarriage seperates you from God then you shouldn't do it. Likewise if eating meat seperates you from God you shouldn't do it. Neither remarriage or eating meat seperates me from God, such is my faith. It would however be wrong of me to encourage you to remarry or eat meat knowing that these things seperate you from God, to do so would not be acting in love. Everyone plays an important part in God's plan, who are we to judge.

    Romans 14

    The Weak and the Strong
    1Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

    :)
     
  5. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Now, we are back to square one... There are two questions (maybe more)

    What did Jesus do on The Cross and what effect did it have on your spirit man?
    What part of the makeup of man will never be changed and what happens to it?
     
  6. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    1) Actually, you will need to think this one through because if you so much as lust after another person, you are already an adulterer.

    2) The woman at the well had 5 husbands and the man whe was with was not her husband and Jesus did not say "Hang it up, girl, you are destined for due recompense" -- rather He said, "Come and drink"

    3) Jesus was talking about the Mosaic Law and not the Abrahamic Covenant which is totally different.

    4) It doesn't take into account the work of The Cross.
     
  7. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    Is there sin in heaven? I think theologically spea
    All great points, and particularly point 3. :)

    Mosaic Law dictates the punishment for adultery (sin) is death (back then remarriage was never an issue so long as there were plenty of stones).

    Mosaic Law dictates you share the penalty of the transgressor if you refuse to uphold the Mosaic Law and carry out the punishment (on the testimony of two or more witnesses).

    The Pharisees tested Jesus asking him to uphold the Mosaic Law and stone the adultress that was brought before him. Jesus refused to carry out the punishment breaking the Mosaic Law symbolically dying for her sins so to speak.

    Bet that generates some discussion. ;-)

    Leviticus states that any child that curses their parent should be put to death. No one could keep the Mosaic law, that was the point of the thing.
     
  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I don't believe that is true....otherwise there would be no day of accounting.
    When the judgment comes, Jesus will "start with the house of God".

    "However, let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or a wrongdoer or a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed, but let him keep on glorifying God while bearing this name. 17 For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God? 18 “And if the righteous man is being saved with difficulty, what will happen to the ungodly man and the sinner?19 So, then, let those who are suffering in harmony with the will of God keep on entrusting themselves to a faithful Creator while they are doing good." ( 1 Peter 4:15-19)

    In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus is scathing in his response to those who acknowledge him as "Lord" but who fail to "do the will of the Father"....he tells them to 'get away from him because he has never recognized them'. He calls them "workers of lawlessness"...why? As Christians they would surely not be breaking the laws of the land....so it must be God's laws that they are breaking, thinking that it doesn't matter. It clearly does.

    It doesn't matter what "we" call sin....it matters what "God" calls sin and whether we are practicing it, deliberately ignoring his laws as if Jesus blood has you covered. The willful practice of sin is what merits an adverse judgment....Jesus did not die for willful sinners. 'Once saved always saved' is not what the Bible teaches. (Matthew 24:13)

    It is Jesus who says that unscriptural remarriage separates you from God, not me. Being obedient to the Christ means obeying all his teachings. What excuse can we offer for disobedience?

    Faith alone is not enough....."Faith without works is dead"....remember?

    ".....faith by itself, without works, is dead. 18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?" (James 2:17-20)

    We are not the judge but we are also very good at kidding ourselves. The heart is a treacherous partner in crime when it comes to sin. (Jeremiah 17:9) The devil wants us to sin so that we will not be saved.

    If you understand what Paul was talking about and who he was talking to, you will see that you have completely misinterpreted his words to suit your own needs.

    When Paul wrote that letter to the Romans, he was not writing a letter to all the people in Rome. He was writing to his fellow anointed Christians who lived there......."to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (Romans 1:7) He urged them to be transformed and “do not be conformed to this world.” (Romans 12:2) The “world” he wrote about included what the people in Rome thought was right and wrong.....their customs, conduct, and way of dressing. Paul said “do not be conformed” because there were brothers and sisters who were still acting and thinking like the Romans. How were they being influenced?

    The Romans had many temples and worshipped many gods, but most people did not try to have a real and close relationship with their gods. The religion of the Romans mainly required that they participate in rituals, such as at births, marriages, or funerals. These rituals were part of their daily life. It must have been very difficult for Christians in Rome to "transform" their thinking. Many of them were raised to worship false gods, so they had to make big changes to become Christians. Even after their baptism, they still had to make adjustments.

    That being the case, Paul was telling his fellow Christians that in order to work in accord with their own conscience, a person had to obey it as they saw fit. One might see meat sacrificed to idols as just meat sold in a market like any other, and not worry that it was used in false worship. The god to whom it was offered, did not exist anyway. But a person with a weaker conscience might avoid that meat altogether because of its association with false worship....neither one was wrong for exercising their own conscience in the matter....but they were not to judge each other.

    That is a whole lot different to breaking a clearly stated law like marrying a unscripturally divorced person.

    So IMV your interpretation of scripture in this matter is flawed. :(
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    If I may give an answer to your Thread,
    About Purgatory.
    Alot of Christians to day are not taught about what happens after they die.

    Alot of Christians are taught to believe, that after they die, they go straight to heaven. Unto which is not true.

    Christ Jesus taught about Purgatory in a since in the book of Luke 16:26, In the Great Gulf Fix.
    That once a person dies they go into one side or another in the Great Gulf Fix.

    On one side of the Great Gulf Fix, are those that did not do so good in their life.

    And on the other side of the Great Gulf Fix are those that have done good in their life.

    But as it is, No one goes directly into heaven when they die.

    Alot of people, including christians forget there's one thing standing in their way of entering heaven.
    That's the Great White Throne judgement of God's.
    No one including Christians will not enter God's kingdom of heaven, Until they come before God at His Great White Throne judgement.
    Revelation 20:11-15.

    In other words people are held in purgatory or to say held in the Great Gulf Fix until the Great White Throne judgement of God's.

    But I know what your saying and I do agree with you.

    But as it is people will condemn what they don't understand or have knowledge about.

    Thank you
     
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