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Featured PureX Answers Some Questions

Discussion in 'Theism' started by PureX, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The mechanisms of physical reality do not require empathy, kindness, compassion, or even appreciation to function. Nor is there any functional reason for existence to have become self-aware, through the manifestation of life, and consciousness. And yet these transcendent characteristics have manifested. And they do give existence meaning and purpose beyond the mechanisms of it's physical function. And this is why I consider them both transcendent, "divine".
     
  2. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    So may I conclude your thought is that the conscious application of kindness, love, empathy and other characteristics which are mostly, not totally unique to human animals, does not manifest due to the mechanical, physical nature of evolution of the human brain and mind but must only be present because they have been somehow installed into or present in humans by what you term as the divine? If I am not understanding you about this let me know.

    Assuming that is what you mean, my question would then become how or why did you come to this conclusion? Do you not believe that humans could have evolved to have these attributes without divine intervention? And I'm still not understanding what exactly the divine is or where it originates from or currently resides and how? Mostly where it originates from in the universe? What is the process that causes it to become part of humans and causes humans to display the attributes we are discussing?

    Those are enough questions for this post. I will get the existence question out of the way now. Currently, I have no knowledge of existence other than the early star dust bombardment of our planet and the ensuing evolution of life eventually leading to us humans. I don't know of any purpose other than propagation of our species which is present in all life forms on this planet. I also don't know if the progression of evolution into humans is the ultimate height or as it seems, the ultimate destruction of life on this planet.

    When I am in the forest it seems to me, the lower the intellect of lifeforms, the more successful at the proper balance of propagation, death and continuance of life they are capable of.
     
  3. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    That such characteristics emerge from within a mindless, lifeless physicality, and that they transcend that lifeless, mindless physicality is why I consider them "divine" (in relation). The origin or purpose of these characteristics is unknown to me.

    That these traits 'evolved' is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is that they exist. and that they transcend the mindless, lifeless physicality from which they emerge.
    How an automobile is constructed, or that it is constructed, is of no particular significance in relation to the new realm of existential possibilities it's existence opens up once it's here.

    To exist "successfully", but with almost no awareness and almost no options, is a 'feat' of very little significance (to me). It's true that the effect of our existence on the world we inhabit, and even on each other, is questionable. But that it can be questioned, and is being questioned, is amazing to me. Because through that characteristic, a whole new range of existential possibilities emerge. We may not survive to fulfill them. But we may. And if we don't, some other form of conscious being somewhere else in the universe, may. And may already have done so.
     
    #23 PureX, Jan 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  4. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    It has been a busy few days with the worst characteristics possible within humans playing out in a most disturbing way. I would not classify them as being divine characteristics. Fortunately, many humans can understand the destructive nature of that type of behavior. But that many ingage in it, support it and believe it is the way problems should be solved makes me more inclined to think of wild animal behavior rather than something divine. I feel as a species, we really do not have a purpose other than the one we create for ourselves. Looking here and at the events around the world lead me to think that even religious and spiritual beliefs are not enough to raise humans much above our animal cousins when it comes to the treatment of others. I just don't understand the hate, lies and greed which is and has been such a large part of our existence.

    I should not watch right wing media but I feel it is important to try to understand the thinking and behavior of our fellow citizens here in our immediate vicinity. I only partake in short sessions because that is all I can stomach but again, I do not see anything divine about any of it. I cannot find that if there were something 'divine' somewhere out there or anywhere that was capable of interacting with our existence, that it has made any difference in producing those good characteristics that should be preferred over the ones that are prevalent throughout the world. I just see a natural progression of human animal intelligence coupled with growth of populations leading to forced cohabitation and some successful attempts at social agreements and cooperation. I also do not hold out hope for this planet and its inhabitants as you do. At least in the amount of time we have left before the ecosystems will no longer be able support life. Is there another universe somewhere with other life forms that have figured out how to do it right? Maybe.

    I do very much love my family and try my best to help them and try to have compassion and empathy for other life and do attempt other positive characteristics as do many others. I am grateful I have had a chance to experience this world divinities or not.

    I agree that the conscious abilities and developed characteristics in humans and all life compared to our star dust origins is a great wonder and fantastically amazing.

    Thank you for the conversation. Hope you have a peaceful day.
     
  5. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    I feel as though I may have derailed your ask Purex questions thread.

    So two questions:

    How much time do you spend in your day being one with everything and understanding what that means and how it affects your existence?

    On a scale from 1 to 10, how would you rate Schitt's Creek and why?
     
  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Neither would I. These traits come from our fear, which is mostly self-centered and revolves around the idea that everyone else is our competitor, and therefor our enemy, in life. These are the traits I would expect in a blind and dumb universe. A universe with no meaning or purpose other than to continue existing. A universe with no value. Only functionality.

    But this fear and selfishness is not all we humans are. And competition and antipathy is not all we are capable of. We are also kind, and loving, and generous, and forgiving. We can also cooperate for the benefit of all, and share with those in need. We recognize value, and beauty, and even create these things where they did not before exist. And it's these aspects of humanity that I call "divine". It's these aspects of humanity that I believe transcend the meaningless universe of functionality, to a universal realm of meaning and purpose. And of real value.
    I think you need more art in your life. To witness things that we humans do for NO OTHER REASON than just to be beautiful. To be thoughtful. To be honest. And to be real in the most abject sense. The human endeavor that has nothing to do with mere functionality, and everything to do with the mystery of the spirit. And with the awe of transcendence.
    Ditto.
     
    #26 PureX, Jan 11, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
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  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Naw, I just got distracted by the events of the day.
    All, and none. :)

    "All", in that as a Taoist, I am always within that 'flow of being', whether I'm aware of it, or not. And even whether I am foolishly fighting against it, trying to force my desires from or onto it, or I'm relaxed and at ease in it's loving arms (so to speak). The Tao is immutable. One of the things I like most about Taoism is that it is not about seeking. Or knowing. It's about being. Just being. Authentic, honest, spontaneous, being. That's all. No doing is required. No understanding is required. In fact, in pursuing these things we lose our appreciation of that being. We become "lost" even though we aren't lost at all. Relax, breathe, and you're back. Because you never left.

    And "none" in the sense that it's not about understanding. Not even really about awareness and appreciation (though these are wonderful gifts). It's about letting go of the fear-control. And just 'dancing with the circumstances', instead. And I have gotten much better at this over the years.
    I watched the first season way back when it came out, but then it seemed to vanish for a couple of years. (At least from whatever media source I'd gotten it.) When I finally bumped into it again, I'd lost interest. I remember it being very quirky, and interesting for that reason, but somehow that wasn't enough to get me to look into it, again. I am not much for sit-coms. I do tend to avoid them, generally.
     
  8. alypius

    alypius Member

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    Was there a time when 'the Christ' (as expression of the mind of God) did not exist?
     
  9. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    "Christ" is a state of being. We humans rarely achieve that state of being, but the state is always there for us in the sense that it's always possible. And it's always been possible (available to us). That's my take on it.
     
  10. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    Love this and wanted to thank you for the reminder. I just have been so stuck in the fighting things for the last few months and really getting to the no joy, no zen, just blah state even though trying not to. Even being one wasn't hacking it. I think part was taking that darn Chantix to try once again to quit smoking. But it was messing with me. I had to stop it a week ago because I was getting suicidal. It's happened before so I was scared of trying. But I tried, it doesn't work for me. I am feeling much better since getting back into "just being nice, acceptance of the situations and going with the flow." Your post I've thought about for several days and it has helped.

    I still haven't figured out smiley faces on here yet, but there is one #here#. What kind of art do you create? I used to paint long ago but now it's all photography.
     
  11. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    [QUOTE="wandering peacefully, post: 6990212, member: 63623]I still haven't figured out smiley faces on here yet, but there is one #here#. What kind of art do you create? I used to paint long ago but now it's all photography.[/QUOTE]I was a sculptor in Chicago for many years. Now I'm half retired in NWPA. The Chicago work was painted wood, a bit 'loud and funky' (as Chicago art tends to be). Now days when i do make something, it tends to be as part of some local cause, or demonstration, or something. Functionally collaborative even though the object is all my doing.

    At the moment I'm getting myself set up to do some small combination construction/drawings. Made objects attached to the paper and then drawn on and into. I figure it's going to be a long covid winter and I'll need to occupy myself. :)
     
  12. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I was a sculptor in Chicago for many years. Now I'm half retired in NWPA. The Chicago work was painted wood, a bit 'loud and funky' (as Chicago art tends to be). Now days when i do make something, it tends to be as part of some local cause, or demonstration, or something. Functionally collaborative even though the object is all my doing.

    At the moment I'm getting myself set up to do some small combination construction/drawings. Made objects attached to the paper and then drawn on and into. I figure it's going to be a long covid winter and I'll need to occupy myself. :)

    Here's a drawing I did a while back for a charity auction. More in keeping with the Chicago style work.


    Hand (1).jpg
     
  13. alypius

    alypius Member

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    What reasons are there for taking this position?
     
  14. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    Very cool. I don't get the have god ring finger, but it also isn't that clear on here. That's great you are involved in the local causes.

    Yes, it is still going to be a while before stuff gets back into the "normal" range. I have a ton of kids and grandchildren who keep getting exposed so I worry about that but still carefully hang out with them so that helps with the long winter. I actually drove up to the mountains a few days ago. I haven't wanted to go far from home but I needed the refreshment only the mountains can give and ended up unexpectedly snapping a few pictures. That had gone onto the back burner with everything else going on a while ago so it felt good to see and be it again.

    Cheers
     
  15. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I have to interpret the biblical story as it's given, in the way that makes the most sense in relation to my own life experiences.
     
  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It's bound up with the prayer, "God have mercy". A general title for the drawing might be "The Hand of Man". The image of a hand motivated by powerful disparate and conflicting drives that affect everything it touches.
    When I finally left Chicago in '02 I was very tired and burned out from so many years in an inner-city environment. So I spent months just walking and driving around in the countryside with a camera just to get out of myself, and pay attention to a natural environment. it was very relaxing, and centering.
     
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  17. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    I think the title is a good one. I have lived in a lot of cities. Never ever could I do it again. I'm basically a hermit now. I pick trails I know won't have people on them. That's not a good attribute if one was to live in a city. Well, half a hermit anyway.

    Glad you were able to escape and find a different place after being done with Chicago. I feel so bad for all of the people who do not have that option.

    Yes, being in the natural environment is my favorite thing to do. I agree it is very centering. I'm headed there now the wind is starting to die down so it okay to go without worrying about falling trees and branches.
     
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