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Psychiatry's Sick Compulsion

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Darkdale, Jan 1, 2006.

  1. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    I think most people are on the same page here...the argument rages more because when you're medicated for depression it doesn't make you feel any better about yourself to be told your medication is a cop out because you just wont eat the right bread.
     
  2. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    You can psycho-analyze me all you want LL, that is exactly what my father used to do all of the time, it drove me insane. Psychologists really don't care about anything but filling their pockets full of money. My anger is directed at psychologists and the harmful drugs they prescribe.

    Flooppy Cat made me realize how ridiculous my previous posts were. I understand why you criticized me, LL, and I don't hold any bad feelings, It was the word twat that was extremely degrading, call me self indulgent or whatever you want, but to use a vulgar word to describe someone, is extremely crass, and shows your character as well. I would think that you would want to delete your posts too, but I guess you are proud of being crass. I am sure you knew full well how insulting that word would be to an American, knowing how intelligent you are. You were full aware of the meaning that it would infer to any American. Well at least it got me to explore some of my inner anger towards people like you who love to throw out insults. I hold no bad feelings towards you, so why do you want to hold onto anger towards me. You are a strong person and can handle an insult and so can I. There is no reason to hold bad feelings. I deleted my posts so I would not become more angry, while reading more comments, about my previous posts. There are people legitimately suffering and we should be sensitive to them, and if I had left my previous posts, and not deleted them, I could not say that. I admit I was insulting, I cannot take that back, I GREATLY APOLOGIZE FOR THAT and want to move on. I was wrong to insult you, LL. It was not right. I don't care if you called me a twat, if it makes you feel better then by all means do it. I don't care. Call me indulgent, I don't care. You probably thought it was appropriate and it probably was. Please accept my apology and you can call me whatever you want, I don't care I deserve it. I will never make any insensitive remarks, to you, or anyone else on this subject again. Really I am mad at the psychiatric profession not the people that suffer from it. I am upset at all the wastless drugs that are put upon us.
     
  3. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    But it wasn't as vulgar as you took it...frankly if I was going to call you a c*nt, I'd just come straight out and do it. If you're going to post on a board with international members, you have to realise that many words don't hold the same intent in every country. If you had turned around and railed at the fact I called you a twat I could have understood, but frankly you didn't mention it at all. Your big bugbear was that I suggested you may have once in your life behaved in a self indulgent manner. The fact that you mentioned it several times during the course of the post showed that it was a sore point. Buggered if I know why...everyone is allowed to be self indulgent at least once in their lives. It doesn't render you less of a person, just means you're absolutely normal.
    As to being fully aware what the word would infer to any American reading it, I'm afraid it didn't even occur to me before Nutshell bought it up, and as it wasn't the intended meaning I didn't see any need to change it. I guess I assumed you would be intelligent enough to work out that in the context used it probably meant something else. Sorry I'm not that up on American vernacular. I don't especially feel the need to be. I would also imagine many of the people here wouldn't have the faintest idea if what they were saying was going to be some horrendous insult in Australia, but to me it's water off a duck's back. Partially because I don't expect people to know what is and isn't a dire insult, and partially because as far as I'm concerned it's a case of sticks and stones.
    As for being crass, largely that's in your mind. Like I said, if I wanted to refer to you as a c*nt, that is the word I would have used. My usage of the word twat was as something synonamous with...well, I can think of plenty of words that wouldn't be thought twice of here, but you'd probably take offense to as well. Perhaps we're just a crass country. Or perhaps we're just less uptight about something that is after all only a string of letters. Let's just call it nitwit and be done with it.
    As to loving to throw out insults, if you'd read the actual post you were replying to, I was questioning the behaviour of your father as much as anything. I thought it rather shabby that someone who was supposed to be a mental health professional could decide that the best response to a family member in need was to evict them. I find that attitude totally incomprehensible and very wrong. That you were perhaps just being self indulgent was the other option, and perfectly acceptable given the circumstances. When life doesn't go right we're allowed to wallow for a little bit before we pick ourselves up and push on with it.
    I thinkthe person I 'insult' the most at the moment would be ChrisP, and that's a good natured running joke between my country and his.
    As to holding out any anger, I don't. My apologies if I hit a nerve. As for deleting my posts, I don't see the merit in it. I think most people here know me well enough by now to have a good idea of what my intent is.:D
     
  4. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    I hope that isn't what you think I've been trying to do. Americans are very unhealthy, physically. People are overweight, people drink too much, smoke too much, eat too much and it isn't good for your brain. I think there are a lot of people who would rather take drugs than get healthy. All I'm advocating is health. That's it. If people got themselves healthy, many of them would be feeling a lot better.

    If people abuse their bodies and are unhealthy it is not surprising that they end up with problems, but that doesn't mean that everyone who has mental problems do so because of their diet. Sometimes the brain just gets out of balance on its' own. But, it wouldn't hurt to get healthy would it? People would have more energy, a better self-image and so forth. I just don't see the downside to being healthy. It won't work for everyone, but it did work for me.
     
  5. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Wow. On first reading I thought I disagreed with you Darkdale. Maybe it was just poor wording or my brain is still kicking in. I tend to agree though. I prefer to think in terms of wellness, not in terms of illness. Attitude has a lot to do with well being (and a good diet, excercise etc...) but attitude is the key.

    My physician is great simply because he always ASKS me if I want a medication for something. I invariably say "no thanks".

    For example, I was telling some folks the other day that one of my pet peeves is fat children and teenagers. I do not have any kids (that I am aware of at least LOL) but if I did I know I would be a health NAZI. I would not allow them to be couch potatoes. And yes, I would get out there and do activities with them if that was required.
     
  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Well, I must say, that contrary to what I thought earlier, I agree with you (as an individual case, ie yours). I totally agree that we all (except for Maize:D ) Eat too much, drink and smoke too much - but unfortunately, that is part of Capitalism - back to old politics again.

    If the entire American population ate healthily, and stopped drinking and smoking, I guess a few large corporations would go down the pan............

    Culture and the media (which is basicall down to us, the public), are to blame; but I don't see a 'cure' which won't bring with it negative results./

    As for 'Changing the way we think' - I have had that thrown at me, ever since I was 16. I wish I could. But I can't; I am stuck in my own man made rut (probably because of my morals, and my faith0, and I honestly am not able to change the way I think. I can't be the only one either.;)
     
  7. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    I'm not sure I understand. How does that have anything to do with capitalism? It has to do with a lack of self-control/discipline.

    I'm not sure I understand your angle here. The idea isn't that people shouldn't ever drink or smoke or eat red meat. The point is, everything in moderation. The same goes for exercise. There is no corporate or political conspiracy here. People are just lazy. It's quite simple. People don't take care of themselves and we are responsible for that mistake.

    Changing the way you think is hard and it usually requires a dramatic event. For example, when I finally gave up on Christianity, my mind became open to a new ways of thinking. I quite literally let go of all my assumptions and started over again. I'm am not the same person I was ten years ago. I used to be a drug addict. Haven't used in years. I used to be a Christian, now I'm a heathen. I used to be an egalitarian communist, now I'm a family oriented chap with a love a free capitalism. I used to be consumed by depression and anxiety, now I have it relatively under control. Which is not to say that I don't get depressed and anxious, it's just to say that it no longer effects my work, my relationships or my behavior. I've learned to deal with it.

    Change is possible, but man, you got to want it bad (hence the usual need to some event).

    Anyway, the point is, good health is important and when you are in bad health, you chemistry get out of balance and that causes problems. Good health won't cure all our ills, but it does help alot.
     
  8. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    THIS IS GREAT!:clap
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    .

    What I meant is, that industries who are hell bent on making you eat, drink, & smoke more aren't going to take too kindly to your giving advice that might put them out of business.



    Oh damn! How I hate "everything in moderation" - because although I know that is a good approach, I am incapable of succeeding in doing it; I am an 'extremes' guy. Believe me, I have tried 'moderation' - and it has never worjked for me (possibly because I have a highly adictive personality).


    Sure there are things I can change the way I think about. But unfortunately, with me, it is all the 'core' concepts that I am unable to change - and, believe me, I have been through enough cognitive therapy to understand from where all the roots of my cross eyed way of thinking comes from. I saw one particular guy (a psychologist - and he was good!) twice a week for near on three years in total; he was determined to 'crack' me as he used to put it (in jest)........even he admitted, in the end, that I would never change. I think the expression was "Michel, you've been shooting yourself in the foot for so long now, I guess you couldn't even aim a gun anywhere else!" (hey, don't forget my problems have been ongoing for 40 years, minimum).

    Change is possible, but man, you got to want it bad (hence the usual need to some event).

    I agree, there is no doubt that you are right. However, sitting here, with my physical health the way it is now, there's not much hope of my living a fruitfully healthy life (although I have given up cigarettes (I was a 40 + a day man for probably 30 years - and they were 'powerful' ones, non - tipped). I also gave up alcohol last may (although I have had three cognacs and two Cointreaus since I gave up).
     
  10. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    Yeah, but that's just tough. :) What do I care what these companies think? They won't go out of business though.

    I'm the same way. I'm always inclined toward the extremes, but when things are in moderation I am much happier.

    I still have nights when I drink too much, still have days when I'll pick up a cigeratte or ten, but it becomes less and less with every year. Progress is slow.
     
  11. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    Wow. This thread has totally changed since I saw it last. I would also like to apologize to anyone who offended, this is just a very touchy subject with me, I have Bipolar Disorder and have struggled on and off meds for a couple of years now. Sorry if I offended anyone, this is just something really close to me.
     
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  12. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Someone mentioned, Sunstone I think, that they prefer to follow psychiatry. I tend to agree. If you are SUFFERING, then by all means try to arrive at resolving your condition. Drugs may be quite helpful. However, I do agree with Darkdale and others that we are overmedicated in general.

    Rather than think, Hey... I am doing such and such and that is making me feel like crap... we tend to take a pretty little pill and carry on with our indulgences. One of the very clearest examples I can think of off hand is people who rely on heartburn solutions. Instead of changing their diet, they plough right ahead and continue eating the way their body does not like. One little pill and everything is alright.

    Obviously, some folks are severe conditions even with hearthburn/acid reflux, etc... and should seek proper medications. I think Darkdale in general, makes a very valid point in our pill popping world. Again, not all drugs are bad. Not all drug patients are being over medicated. It is just that we have adopted this odd rationale that we can take a pill and minimize our difficulties when in fact all we have to do is alter our habits.

    I would wager that many people would find solace is MINOR behavioral/lifestyle changes rather than depending on drug therapy. Frankly, if you have problems... take your fricken medicines. LOL. If you are like the majority of people who just get out of sorts... look at what you are doing in your life... and see if you can get things back on track naturally.
     
  13. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I don't think you have offended anyone - not that I have noticed anyway. I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for medication.

    Bipolar was called cyclic manic depression in the old days - and that was what I was told I had when I was 16, but my doctor refuses to 'label' me - when I mentioned cyclic manic depression when I first met him, he gave me a wierd look, and said there was no such thing; I've never been sure why. All I know is that anyone has my admiration however they cope with depression; it isn't exactly a ball park.

    To those who refuse to have medication, I admire the intent, and if you can manage, good for you. I know I couldn't. I think I have been on virtually every single anti - depressant in the book in the hope of finding 'The magic cure', but, of course, there is no magic cure. One just learns to try and look 'Normal' to outsiders and strangers, and develop methods of coping. I know that not all people suffer from incurable depression, and I am happy for them; as for those who are never rid of it, all I can offer is 'an ear' - strangely enough, I have amassed a great deal of knowledge on the subject, and if anything I know can help anyone else, I get a kick out of it.;)
     
  14. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    There is a growing body of scientific evidence that major depression, bipolar disorders, etc. have a genetic component. That is, they are partly caused by ones genes.
     
  15. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    My Grandmother on my mother's side suffered fromdepression - and although no one knew the term in those days, she was bulimic (aged about thirty Mum reckoned), between the two World wars. Thankfully, it skipped one generation.
     
  16. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    There is much evidence to the contrary. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if these imbalances couldn't' be passed on genetically.
     
  17. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    The appearance of evidence to the contrary might be because genes are not the sole cause of depressive disorders, but only a cause.

    Neither would I.
     
  18. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    NO, I actually agree with you. I also think that to an extent we lack the willingness to hold responsibility for ourselves. In a world where you can gorge yourself to obesity on crap and then sue the fast food company for making you overweight, and companies rush to provide the latest diet pill - not for the people who are trying and for some reason can't move the weight,or are unable to exercise for some health reason, but for the people who are too lazy to get off their fat arses and onto a treadmill, because they're the larger market - how can you expect there not to be people who want a pill for whatever ails them, even if there isn't actually anything wrong with them except the normal wear and tear of being a person.
    I don't think there is a downside to being healthy; unless it's the fact that it takes more effort to be healthy than it does to not.
     
  19. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    I believe it, I know. Mine is very much genetical.

    My great-grandmother and great-grandfather on my father's side, we assume have it(by their actions, journals, etc.), my great-grandmother was also schizophrenic, and my great-grandfather committed suicide

    My grandmother(on dad's side) has a chaser of aspergers(like autsism)

    My dad had a chaser of aspergers
    My mum has ADD
    I have ADD, Bipolar Disorder, a bit of OCD and SAD's

    My sister has Aspergers, Bipolar, OCD, ADD/ADHD, and any "dd" you can think of
    My brother has ADD
    My other brother had Aspergers, ADD

    My grandmother(mum's side), has a bit of depression.

    So, I know it's gentic.
     
  20. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    Well, that makes sense. But I umm, already thought of that. Yeah, I just left that out because I thought it was obvious. yep yep yep I'm smart.

    :( *sighs* Good point.
     
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