Psychiatry's Sick Compulsion

[Sunstone]

With all due respect to the posters in this thread, when it comes to mental/emotional illness, I'm going with the advice of the experts: That is, the advice of the psychiatric community. I would trust a home remedy for depression or some other mental/emotional illness just as much as I would trust a home remedy for diabetes or cancer. Which is to say, not much.

Some long time ago, I learned that I knew just enough about some subjects to delude myself into believing I knew more than the experts. That was a valuable lesson to learn. It's not when we are totally ignorant of a subject that we display the greatest arrogance in thinking we know it all; rather, it is when we are partly informed on a subject that we are most likely to think we know more about it than we do.

 

[michel]

A disorder is a true disorder only if it keeps you from functioning as you would like to function.

That is the clinical definition, and I think it is spot on !

Except when it comes to an income.

My apologies; you are quite right. Have you ever thought of trying to get work from home ?

I believe that mental disorder is just that. QUOTE]

A good post, but the essense of the message was in that first sentence. I would go even further, and say that most physical disorders are based on a psychological 'ill' (That obviously excludes broken bones through an accident - anything of that ilk), but for the greater part, the mental affects the physical.

 

[john63]

John63 we have all been through stuff like that. My own father was a social worker and he would not even allow me to be mentally ill. He would get pissed off at me and tried to kick me out of the house over 15 years ago for feeling that way. He could not handle the fact that his own son was depressed and wacked out. I went through that stuff you have just described. It is all in how you focus your mental energy. It did not take long for me to focus my energy on more constructive things than crazy thoughts in my mind. I just forgot how to have fun. I soon met my wife after that and we went to europe twice on a shoestring budget and had a blast. Try fun for a change. I remember taking a suicidal friend of mine skiing ONLY ONCE and he completely snapped out of his depression and has a succesful business of his own today. I have other stories like that one. Fun will help solve depression. We have forgotten how to have fun. We are too busy putting each other down all the time, no wonder we are all sick and depressed.

My panic disorders had nothing to do with "crazy thoughts" in my head. I've never had crazy thoughts. And even though I was depressesed I still got out and did things quite a lot. I learned all the hollistic ways to treat it, and none of them did any good. It finally took medication to balance everything. I just get so sick and tired of hearing people tell me that it's all in my head and I can "think" it away. Some people can, some people can't.

 

[Darkdale]

With all due respect to the posters in this thread, when it comes to mental/emotional illness, I'm going with the advice of the experts: That is, the advice of the psychiatric community.

Really? You're going with the people that make their money inventing disorders and drugging the public? For every disorder and drug they invent, the more money they make. No, I think I'll go with my own experiences and objective studies.

 

[Sunstone]

Really? You're going with the people that make their money inventing disorders and drugging the public? For every disorder and drug they invent, the more money they make. No, I think I'll go with my own experiences and objective studies.

What objective studies are you refering to?

 

[john63]

Darkdale

I apologise for throwing insults at you. It was childish of me and there was no need for it.

I hope you understand that this just happens to be that one subject that fires me up. I hate it when people tell me it's all in my head.

So, I hope you accept my apology.

John

 

[michel]

Really? You're going with the people that make their money inventing disorders and drugging the public? For every disorder and drug they invent, the more money they make. No, I think I'll go with my own experiences and objective studies.

With all due respect Darkdale, that argument is a bit 'thin'. Would you then advocate that all dentists find something wrong with your teeth, for the pleasure of turning you into a customer ? or perhaps lawyers go around paying people to break up marriages so that they (The lawyers) can get the divorce fees ?

 

[WeAreAllOne]

IDK if anyone else sees it this way but I think advertising drugs on TV is proof enough. There is no point to it. If your Doc thinks you need a script for your condition then he will give it to you. People go to their doctor and ask for something and I would bet most of the time they get it. Why? Because even if you don’t really need it the doc figures either he can make the money off of giving you this drug or you’ll just go somewhere else and make someone else rich. People treat doctors as gods and I’m not sure that’s so smart considering they get 1,000’s of hours of drug training and only between 4-7 hours nutrition. Something is really wrong with that picture.

 

[Fluffy]

I think of normal as being the natural human condition.

What specifically is the "natural" human condition?

I think people would rather take drugs to solve their problems than to deal with them themselves.

How is taking drugs not dealing with a problem? Besides the majority of people who are on anti-depressants and the like also have regular councelling meaning that the drugs are merely there to get them to a certain point whilst the councelling cures them.

There is nothing morally wrong with taking drugs, in my opinion, but I've taken them and stopped. I am much better off today than when I let psychiatrists dose me with prozac, depakote, paxel and trasidone.

We live in an overmedicated society with 42% of Americans taking at least one prescription drug.

Are you saying this because you know that say 30% of Americans are taking these drugs unnecessarily ie their problem would not be dramatically worsened were they taken off the drugs or are you saying this because you think that 42% is too high a figure regardless of the number of Americans who need such drugs?

Anyway, there is no objective or scientific reason why we shouldn't take all these drugs, but for me drugs aren't the answer.

I agree fully.

If other people feel they need them, ok, but I feel sorry for the ones that take them and don't need them, who are forced to experience life articificially.

There is no forcing going on here. People are not taking drugs against their will. Again here you are suggesting that the artificial experience is somehow inferior to the "natural" one... do you have any justification for this?

You know Darkdale is making sense again like he usually does and he is only trying to help. A good diet does help depression. Vitamin B helps the brain to function and to fire properly and our diet is deficient in B vitamins which are found in whole wheat bread. How many of us have even touched a piece of whole wheat bread in the last 10 years. Probably none of you. I eat whole wheat bread everyday and it does wonders for my mental well being as well as my physical body. A proper healthy diet does help fight depression and mental disorders. Going outside and getting some sun is also a big factor in mental well being. These things are free and will save you a whole lot of visits to the local pharmacist. Sun, fun and diet and sleep go a long way. We have forgotten these things as adults.

That's great but what is wrong with doing both?

This is exactly right. They want to stuff their pockets full of more money. I forgot to mention that my father also retired from his first job as a social worker for the LDS church here in Salt Lake City. He has 30,000 dollars worth of retirement a year from them, and has started his own pracitce and makes 80 bucks an hour. Do the math that's about 165,000 dollars a year. That's if he works 40 hours a week. He usually doesn't. He usually spends more of his time up at his cabin basking in the mountain sun and air. What a life. He doesn't need to look for patients they come knocking on his door and he turns them away unless he wants some extra cash, which he doesn't need. I hate to reduce it down to a money game, but it always appeared that way to me, when I was growing up.

If a psychiatrist wanted that he would give you a placebo and make you stay in councelling for unnecessary periods of time. He gets no money out of giving you drugs. The drug companies make money out of it, not the person who you go and see when you are feeling bad. They have no motivation to overprescribe.

 

[WeAreAllOne]

How is taking drugs not dealing with a problem? Besides the majority of people who are on anti-depressants and the like also have regular councelling meaning that the drugs are merely there to get them to a certain point whilst the councelling cures them.

Because drugs are a direct result of western symptomatic medicine. They seek only to cover the overt symptoms they don’t treat the real problem. It’s akin to covering the blinking oil light in your car with tape and saying “problem solved!” or surgically removing the oil light. It’s not blinking anymore but did you really solve the problem?

 

[Sunstone]

Because drugs are a direct result of western symptomatic medicine. They seek only to cover the overt symptoms they don’t treat the real problem. It’s akin to covering the blinking oil light in your car with tape and saying “problem solved!” or surgically removing the oil light. It’s not blinking anymore but did you really solve the problem?

If low serotonin levels are a critical cause of the problem, and the drug raises serotonin levels, how is that akin to "covering the blinking oil light"?

 

[Fluffy]

Because drugs are a direct result of western symptomatic medicine. They seek only to cover the overt symptoms they don’t treat the real problem. It’s akin to covering the blinking oil light in your car with tape and saying “problem solved!” or surgically removing the oil light. It’s not blinking anymore but did you really solve the problem?

The way our society works means that people cannot divert the entirety of their time for a long enough period of time to curing themselves of their psychological troubles. For example, I have school. I cannot leave all that behind me for a few weeks or months or years till I have ridded myself of my problems. The drugs let me deal with it so that I don't have a major bout of depression or hyperactivity during exam week or whatever.

 

[WeAreAllOne]

I wasn’t speaking of specific drugs. but even in that case isn’t the drugs ability to do that still open for debate? (I’m really not 100% sure on that one) You’re still buying into it though. Why does that person have low serotonin levels? If the cause cannot be found then ok, give them the drug if it might help. However, to not try to find the root of the problem is doing that person a grave disservice.

 

[WeAreAllOne]

The way our society works means that people cannot divert the entirety of their time for a long enough period of time to curing themselves of their psychological troubles. For example, I have school. I cannot leave all that behind me for a few weeks or months or years till I have ridded myself of my problems. The drugs let me deal with it so that I don't have a major bout of depression or hyperactivity during exam week or whatever.

I guess this boils down to a question of how important is your long-term health to you. If you need to use the drugs for a short period of time, and it works for you then fine, by all means. Though once you do have the time wouldn’t you like to work to rid your self of your dependency of this drug?

 

[Sunstone]

Think about it Fluffy, if they were really interested in making people well then that would mean less money in their pockets. Both doctors and psychiatrists have a fear of people getting well or doing their own therapy or home remedies to get well. I know people who have gone off chemotherapy and have gotton rid of cancer with large doses of fresh home made carrot juice and have shut down cancer in their bodies. Their are professional doctors that have gone this natural route and have pictures of large cancerous tumors that have disappeared through natural rememdies. The mental brain is the same way. It can be cured with natural remedies. We make it hard. We make it complicated. It never siezes to amaze me.

I've known people who have tried home remedies for cancer and have subsequently died from cancer. What's your point?

 

[gnomon]

Think about it Fluffy, if they were really interested in making people well then that would mean less money in their pockets. Both doctors and psychiatrists have a fear of people getting well or doing their own therapy or home remedies to get well. I know people who have gone off chemotherapy and have gotton rid of cancer with large doses of fresh home made carrot juice and have shut down cancer in their bodies. Their are professional doctors that have gone this natural route and have pictures of large cancerous tumors that have disappeared through natural rememdies. The mental brain is the same way. It can be cured with natural remedies. We make it hard. We make it complicated. It never siezes to amaze me.

Psychiatrists are interested in treating people and I would presume the majority hold the best interests of the patient to be paramount. The debate here is not whether all mental illnesses are a sham created by the pharmaceutical industry or every deviation from the norm is a mental illness.

There is a distinctive difference between the mood disorders suffered by someone with schizophrenia as opposed to the grief suffered by the loss of a loved one. When faced with an external factor which contributes to a mood shift the brain is already adapted to "cope" with the stress, depression, etc. This is different from a disorder where the brain lacks the capability to produce the chemicals which balance mood and respond to exterior sources of stress or even the disorders causing auditory and visual hallucinations.

When you suffer from grief, a temporary depression or general anxiety and run to a psychiatrist for the express purpose of obtaining medication than you might as well get drunk, smoke dope or freebase. For most people the human body is quite capable of responding and coping naturally. It is in these cases where I agree the industry as well as the "victim" are acting irresponsibly.

However if you grab a firepoker every time you come home and scour the entire house for intruders, cameras or listening devices based on an irrational paranoia then you need to get help and very likely might need some medication. There are some people where all the prayer in the world or some form of holistic medication will not "cure" their disorder. In my opinion because often there is not a disease there to cure. I know for myself that Lithium has not "cured" me of anything. It really has done nothing more than balance out the mood swings. Which is just fine with me.

 

[WeAreAllOne]

just to make it clear are we talking about people who tryed to treat it them selfs, or about people under the care of an ND or something simmalar?

 

[gnomon]

just to make it clear are we talking about people who tryed to treat it them selfs, or about people under the care of an ND or something simmalar?

Who are you asking?

 

[michel]

The way our society works means that people cannot divert the entirety of their time for a long enough period of time to curing themselves of their psychological troubles. For example, I have school. I cannot leave all that behind me for a few weeks or months or years till I have ridded myself of my problems. The drugs let me deal with it so that I don't have a major bout of depression or hyperactivity during exam week or whatever.

Good point; medication does have a place for temporary relief. It also gives the person who suffers from reactive depression the opportunity to get over the cause, by dampening the effects for a short while.

Admitedly, endogenous depression is a different matter, and I can understand those who do not want to be on medication for a life time. I have chosen to be so, but of course, the downside is that I have no idea what I would be like without medication.

 

[john63]

Oh by the way my father only got his masters degree and cannot call himself a psychiatrist. He is not allowed to prescribe drugs. If you get your doctorate in psychiatry then your income goes from 80 bucks an hour to about 160 or more an hour with a private practice. The figures may be off a bit but you get the picture. The income from therapy sessions combined with the right to prescribe drugs doubles your income. They are making at least 300,000 a year of more.

In order to be a psyciatrist you have to go through medical school and residency just like a physician. There's no difference at all until you learn your specialty, which in this case would be psyciatry. Psyciatists all have to do a residency at a hospital working in the E.R. as a physician.