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Pseudophilosophy Encourages Confused, Self-Indulgent Thinking

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking | Psyche Ideas


I think many folks on RF will discover the linked-to article on pseudophilosophy both useful and interesting if for no other reasons than some of the subjects it touches on are among the most popular on the Forum. 'Does God Exist?' 'What is Truth?' Along many others that I have seen at least some recurring interest in.

However, the author's topic makes his article more in the way of excellent background information for those questions and issues, than direct discussions of them.

Beyond that, it might be helpful here to mention that the kind of 'philosophy' he's talking about is what more people would think of as 'academic', 'formal', or 'traditional' philosophy than the common sense of the word in America. American culture is by no measure anywhere close to having a strong, formal philosophical element. But it has a robust and thriving 'street' element, so to speak.

I call that more common philosophizing, 'street' philosophy because I enjoy it best when discussing it with friends, sitting at sidewalk tables, and trying to pretend we're not really there just to do girl and guy watching. Street philosophy is what most people are likely thinking of whenever they can think of philosophy and poetry as quite similar to each other, or even two kinds of the same thing.

On the other hand, formal philosophy is basically logical reasoning applied as rigorously as possible to questions that lead beyond much in the way of empirical evidence to support them.

Since empirical evidence is by far the best course-correcting thing humans can use when trying to stay in touch with reality, anyone at all -- philosopher or not -- who tries to figure out reality without its checks is basically like a high wire acrobat. Either he or she stretches their rope (logic) so tight it turns into a pavement, or they fall.

It's almost just as simple as that.

Sticking tightly to an unbroken, step-by-step chain of logic is about anyone's only chance to go much beyond empirical tests without ending up with a meaningless conclusion. But humans have always been fools about allowing themselves to become interested in questions whose conclusions lie well beyond the wisdom of anyone who is not perfectly insane to correctly interpret, let alone arrive at.


If you're curious, one of the best, 'casual' definitions of 'philosophy' that I have heard is, "Logic ramped up to hyper-vigilance, then rigorously pushed well beyond the point at which systems failure becomes inevitable -- just to see how far it can get from home."

I know that's one of the best definitions because that actually is pretty close to the gist of it.

Besides, I came up with it myself a few minutes ago while thinking of this OP. To be sure, i had to spend some years studying stuff before I could cut to the chase like that.

The University of Illinois back in the 1970s for some reason I don't know of, did a study of its undergraduate physics majors. At the time, philosophy was by far their most popular minor. The study concluded that might have something to do with how physics is more or less always pushing the edge of what can be known about the physical universe, and philosophy is almost the only academic discipline fool enough to try to tiptoe much further.


ENTICING BIT OF SUGGESTIVE TRIVIA: The Western philosophical tradition was crucially shaped and defined by the competitive culture of ancient Greece into a form of 'intellectual sport', with the unintended consequence of it now and then figuring out to ask the 'right question' about some thing or another.


Uncle Sunstone
"Defeating rational behavior in every battle since 2004."




 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...
If you're curious, one of the best, 'casual' definitions of 'philosophy' that I have heard is, "Logic ramped up to hyper-vigilance, then rigorously pushed well beyond the point at which systems failure becomes inevitable -- just to see how far it can get from home."
...

Love it.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
the kind of 'philosophy' he's talking about is what more people would think of as 'academic', 'formal', or 'traditional' philosophy

The kind of 'philosophy' he's talking about is Western analytic philosophy. He's not talking about Western continental philosophy, or indeed Middle Eastern, Islamic, Indian, Buddhist, East Asian or African... Just the one that seems to have annexed university philosophy departments.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The kind of 'philosophy' he's talking about is Western analytic philosophy. He's not talking about Western continental philosophy, or indeed Middle Eastern, Islamic, Indian, Buddhist, East Asian or African... Just the one that seems to have annexed Western university philosophy departments.

I think you're likely to confuse people with your use of terms, especially in how you apparently see your comment as spot on relevant to what I said, rather than something more like an oblique and misleading departure from it. Basically, you have introduced an equivocation on the word 'philosophy' as it was being used by me in that context. Figure it out for yourself, if you don't yet see it.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Pseudophilosophy encourages confused, self-indulgent thinking | Psyche Ideas


I think many folks on RF will discover the linked-to article on pseudophilosophy both useful and interesting if for no other reasons than some of the subjects it touches on are among the most popular on the Forum. 'Does God Exist?' 'What is Truth?' Along many others that I have seen at least some recurring interest in.

However, the author's topic makes his article more in the way of excellent background information for those questions and issues, than direct discussions of them.

Beyond that, it might be helpful here to mention that the kind of 'philosophy' he's talking about is what more people would think of as 'academic', 'formal', or 'traditional' philosophy than the common sense of the word in America. American culture is by no measure anywhere close to having a strong, formal philosophical element. But it has a robust and thriving 'street' element, so to speak.

I call that more common philosophizing, 'street' philosophy because I enjoy it best when discussing it with friends, sitting at sidewalk tables, and trying to pretend we're not really there just to do girl and guy watching. Street philosophy is what most people are likely thinking of whenever they can think of philosophy and poetry as quite similar to each other, or even two kinds of the same thing.

On the other hand, formal philosophy is basically logical reasoning applied as rigorously as possible to questions that lead beyond much in the way of empirical evidence to support them.

Since empirical evidence is by far the best course-correcting thing humans can use when trying to stay in touch with reality, anyone at all -- philosopher or not -- who tries to figure out reality without its checks is basically like a high wire acrobat. Either he or she stretches their rope (logic) so tight it turns into a pavement, or they fall.

It's almost just as simple as that.

Sticking tightly to an unbroken, step-by-step chain of logic is about anyone's only chance to go much beyond empirical tests without ending up with a meaningless conclusion. But humans have always been fools about allowing themselves to become interested in questions whose conclusions lie well beyond the wisdom of anyone who is not perfectly insane to correctly interpret, let alone arrive at.


If you're curious, one of the best, 'casual' definitions of 'philosophy' that I have heard is, "Logic ramped up to hyper-vigilance, then rigorously pushed well beyond the point at which systems failure becomes inevitable -- just to see how far it can get from home."

I know that's one of the best definitions because that actually is pretty close to the gist of it.

Besides, I came up with it myself a few minutes ago while thinking of this OP. To be sure, i had to spend some years studying stuff before I could cut to the chase like that.

The University of Illinois back in the 1970s for some reason I don't know of, did a study of its undergraduate physics majors. At the time, philosophy was by far their most popular minor. The study concluded that might have something to do with how physics is more or less always pushing the edge of what can be known about the physical universe, and philosophy is almost the only academic discipline fool enough to try to tiptoe much further.


ENTICING BIT OF SUGGESTIVE TRIVIA: The Western philosophical tradition was crucially shaped and defined by the competitive culture of ancient Greece into a form of 'intellectual sport', with the unintended consequence of it now and then figuring out to ask the 'right question' about some thing or another.


Uncle Sunstone
"Defeating rational behavior in every battle since 2004."



But actually what the writer is having a go at is people like Foucault and the (bogus) notion that there is no such thing as truth, simply because we are all influenced by "power" and therefore cannot discern truth clearly.

By the way, I was pleased - and not a bit surprised - to see he included Lawrence Krauss in his rogue's gallery.;)
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I think you're likely to confuse people with your use of terms, especially in how you apparently see your comment as spot on relevant to what I said, rather than something more like an oblique and misleading departure from it. Basically, you have introduced an equivocation on the word 'philosophy' as it was being used by me in that context. Figure it out for yourself, if you don't yet see it.
I disagree. You state it like it's the real proper (academic, formal, traditional) philosophy, not that street stuff. I'm saying it's but one flavour of philosophy, not the only proper one. I don't consider that a misleading equivocation, I consider it perfectly germaine. The article is about Western analytic philosophy, it is not clarifying to say that it is traditional, that could be construed as misleading. There are, for instance, no doubt "traditions" in other philosophies.
 
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mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
But actually what the writer is having a go at is people like Foucault and the (bogus) notion that there is no such thing as truth, simply because we are all influenced by "power" and therefore cannot discern truth clearly.

By the way, I was pleased - and not a bit surprised - to see he included Lawrence Krauss in his rogue's gallery.;)

But there is no such thing as truth. At best there are different things as different truths.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
That "high wire act" isn't nearly so dangerous as you make it out to be if'n you don't mistake if for reality. Using logic and reason to speculate on the nature of reality and existence beyond what we can demonstrate as functional ideation is not much of a problem for anyone unless they fall for their own speculations. Creating them, setting them against other counter-philosophical memes, and defending them to see how they hold up is no different for a philosopher than it is for a scientist. And in both instances, one of the first lessons learned is not to take on their theories as 'truth'.
 

37818

Active Member
Very interesting. None of which dealt with our presuppositions which plage our understandings.
 
I'm of the opinion that all philosophy is pseudo.

I've always found it strange that there is a class of person who considers themselves rational, yet is proud to highlight the fact that they don't know what philosophy is and that they lack the intellectual curiosity to find out :shrug:
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I was always a math / science guy in school, and then became a programmer at an early age, so logic and boolean algebra and such have been "in my wheelhouse" for a long time. About 8 years ago I heard Sam Harris's TED talk, and that opened the door for me to apply that logical way of thinking to philosophical questions. So I agree that you need to be able to think critically and logically and place a high value on solid, repeatable, predictable evidence before you can really dive in to - at least - western philosophy.

The other thing I'd add is that I must admit that if I look at the world from a pure "relativistic" stance, I cannot really make any conclusions about things like morality and ethics. The point of all of this is that I think the other thing we have to admit is that we need at least one axiom as a foundation when we discuss philosophy.

Sam Harris's axiom was something like: If we imagine a universe in which all conscious creatures spend their entire lives in the worst imaginable agony, that has to be "bad", and all other universes will be - to varying degrees "better". His claim is that most philosophies take as axiomatic the idea that we "should" pursue increasing the well being of conscious creatures (WBCC).

Again, the pure relativist can take issue with the above, but to me, if we cannot even assume that, then there's really nothing to do or talk about.

In my understanding, the style of philosophy known as utilitarianism is very closely aligned with WBCC. Maybe aggregate WBCC. So I mostly identify as a utilitarian. And I must admit that I need an axiom to defend that stance.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Do you think you have some insight as to how and what to listen for? The problem is if generalizations are made in so doing, they can be wrong about supposed presuppositions.

Well, yes. In practice any generalization has a limit. At best it is a part of how the everyday world works.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...
The other thing I'd add is that I must admit that if I look at the world from a pure "relativistic" stance, I cannot really make any conclusions about things like morality and ethics. The point of all of this is that I think the other thing we have to admit is that we need at least one axiom as a foundation when we discuss philosophy.

Sam Harris's axiom was something like: If we imagine a universe in which all conscious creatures spend their entire lives in the worst imaginable agony, that has to be "bad", and all other universes will be - to varying degrees "better". His claim is that most philosophies take as axiomatic the idea that we "should" pursue increasing the well being of conscious creatures (WBCC).

Again, the pure relativist can take issue with the above, but to me, if we cannot even assume that, then there's really nothing to do or talk about.

In my understanding, the style of philosophy known as utilitarianism is very closely aligned with WBCC. Maybe aggregate WBCC. So I mostly identify as a utilitarian. And I must admit that I need an axiom to defend that stance.

The problem is that there is no universal, absolute, objective "we" nor the same with "harm". How, because when we look closer there is no universal, absolute, objective "we" for well being.
You can have an axiom and I can have another and we can both as individuals function in the everyday world.
 
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