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Psalm 22:16 - Suggested reading

Mike182

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Psalm 22:16-18

Evil people surrounded me;
Like dogs they have trapped me.
They have bitten my arms and legs.
I can count all of my bones;
People look and stare at me.
They divided my cloths among them;
and they threw lots for my clothing
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Mike182 said:
Psalm 22:16-18

Evil people surrounded me;
Like dogs they have trapped me.
They have bitten my arms and legs.
I can count all of my bones;
People look and stare at me.
They divided my cloths among them;
and they threw lots for my clothing
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Thanks. That was totally worthless. Did you even attempt to read the site referenced, or are you simply showing off your cut-and-paste skills?
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The chiastic rendering is really quite elegant, and poetic - thereby exposing one of the loveliest qualities of the Tanakh.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I have been able to do so, no problem.......... (for once-after a lot of humming and haring I have gone over to firefox:eek:)



Conclusion

In our long analysis we can make the following conclusions: We are certain that there is no prophecy of the crucifixion in Psalm 22:16b. There are two alternate readings in the Hebrew text circulating in the time around the turn of the common era; the first, kaari ("like a lion"), obviously has no relation to any crucifixion; the second, kaaru may be meaningless, but even if it is meaningful, none of the meaning guessed at by the ancient independent versions (Septuagint, Jerome's Psalm, Symmachus and Aquila) or by modern scholars compels a reading of "piercing". None of the early Christian writers, right up to 150 CE, interpreted Psalm 22:16b to be a direct reference to the crucifixion.

The reading as it stands in the Masoretic Text, "like a lion" is still the most probable reading, for it fits into the imagery of the whole of Psalm 22 better than the guesses of modern scholars or the ancient translators.
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The only conclusion I can draw from this Jay, is "How on Earth is an uneducated layman (like me) supposed to understand the Bible, if passages such as this particular psalm are misrepresentative of the original meaning ?"

What "Frightens" all the me more is the caveat "is still the most probable reading"
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
michel said:
What "Frightens" all the me more is the caveat "is still the most probable reading"
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The Tanakh is endlessly intriguing and revealing. Would you rather have that or simple ... ;)
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Jayhawker Soule said:
The Tanakh is endlessly intriguing and revealing. Would you rather have that or simple ... ;)
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Well, if you are a glutton for mental summersaults......I guess you are right though, although, personally I would prefer a nice handy rule book.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
I took a look at a few versions...

New American Standard

16For (AD)dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They (AE)pierced my hands and my feet.

Contemporary English Version

16Brutal enemies attack me like a pack of dogs, tearing at [b] my hands and my feet.

Psalm 22:16 tearing at: One possible meaning for the difficult Hebrew text.

Darby
16For dogs have encompassed me; an assembly of evil-doers have surrounded me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

English Standard
16For dogs encompass me;
a company of evildoers encircles me;
they have pierced my hands and feet[b]--

Psalm 22:16 Some Hebrew manuscripts, Septuagint, Vulgate, Syriac; most Hebrew manuscripts like a lion [they are at] my hands and feet
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Ok... maybe I'm being dense, but however you read it, I don't see the immediate connection to a direct prophecy of the alleged crucifixion of Jesus. Sure it's there in the KJV if you WANT to read a connection into it. But I see no obvious direct prophecy.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Maize said:
Ok... maybe I'm being dense, but however you read it, I don't see the immediate connection to a direct prophecy of the alleged crucifixion of Jesus. Sure it's there in the KJV if you WANT to read a connection into it. But I see no obvious direct prophecy.
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That's the point about prophecies, Maize; in retrospect it is often easy to point to some written work and say "There you are - it was prophecised"....look at Nostradamus.;)
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
michel said:
That's the point about prophecies, Maize; in retrospect it is often easy to point to some written work and say "There you are - it was prophecised"....look at Nostradamus.;)
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Well, that practice seems misleading at best, to me.
 
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