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Featured Proving With The Bible That Jesus Was NEVER Needed And Is A Con Artist

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Only Reason, Jun 11, 2022.

  1. Only Reason

    Only Reason New Member

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    JESUS IS NOT GOD AND EVEN LIED ABOUT IT



    Jesus cannot be God because Jesus was a man who lied about being God, which goes against Numbers 23:19; "God is not a man, that he should lie, Nor the son of man, that he should repent..." Not to mention in, Hosea 11:9 God flat out states, "I am GOD, and NOT MAN."


    Jesus is a man according to his followers; Acts 2:22. So Jesus is a "man." Ironically the mediator whom Jesus is; 1 Timothy 2:5-6. Jesus can neither be one or the other party because he is the middle ground for finding an answer between both parties. This is what the definition of "mediator" means. And so God accredited the man named Jesus with this common ground. So Acts 2:22 fits this notion perfectly. And as even God himself already asserts before the NT; Isaiah 44:6. Jesus is simply a man who was given special privileges by God. Hence, "The Son of Man" title which he also refers to himself as, makes sense then; Luke 5:24.


    Jesus claims to be God; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14. So this is a bold claim. Does Jesus live up to this claim though? No, he does not. 1 John 3:20 and Psalm 147:5 state that God is omniscient. And is knowledgeable of all things that came and are to come in the past and present future.


    But Jesus DOES NOT know all things; Matthew 24:36. Therefore, we rightfully can say Jesus IS NOT God.


    God is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit, John 4:23-24. And Jesus said the spirit has no flesh and bones Luke 24:39. And so how can Jesus be revealed in the flesh and bones if he is God? A two way contradiction with, 1 Timothy 3:16. Jesus is not God like he hypoctically states here. Let the New Testament speak for itself… and contradict itself.


    Well, since Jesus made the bold statement that he was God then we have to keep putting him to the test to see if he would meet God's "actual" standards. Jesus cannot be tempted by evil if he was God; James 1:13. Well does he pass this? No! Jesus was tempted by the devil AKA the evil one in the wilderness, Matthew 4:1-3. Jesus must NOT be able to be tempted by evil but sadly he failed yet another one of God's standards to be called God.


    "The father is greater than I!" John 14:28. Jesus is lower in position than God, he is on a lower pedestal than God. It's like a servant talking about his master and saying, "My master is greater than I!" This says a lot. This is empirical proof that Jesus is NOT God. Some try to get around this by saying "it's because he's a man and is limited, and even he was made weaker than the angels." Hebrews 2:8-9.


    This logic is flawed for two reasons:


    1. They forget to understand in this verse who even "MADE" Jesus weaker than the angels. God himself did. If you read all of; 1-9, you'll see that God made him that way.
    2. God cannot be a man; Hosea 11:9, Numbers 23:19. Nor should he lie about being God. But he was a man who lied about being God since he didn't fulfill all of the qualities of what God says he is.


    Jesus was forsaken on the cross. "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46. Again, this should be a wake up call for the trinitarians and a nail in the coffin for Jesus as god. Jesus can't deny/forsake himself, 2 Timothy 2:13. But he was denied, by whom? If Jesus was God, he could not deny himself because he is perfect and divine; Isaiah 45:18, Deuteronomy 32:4. God denying God makes absolutely no sense and is incoherent on all scales. This is because Jesus was denied by the one and only God and ultimately proving that Jesus is not and never will be God himself.


    Revelations 1:1-6 Disproves the trinity once again. How can God give revelation to Jesus if he is God? Especially if God is known to be omniscient? And so replace Jesus with God and the sentence would once again be something like, "And God gave revelation to God." Which makes no sense. That's another NT error for trinitarians. Not only is this logic flawed but it undermines God's infinite and omniscient intelligence and shows that Jesus cannot be God. Especially because Jesus is not omniscient in the first place as well unlike God who is. In verse 5-6, the author has already alluded here that Jesus serves "a" deity. Even more clearly stated, "His God and Father." That's right, "His God" which he calls, "father." Meaning he is at the very least putting someone or something else above him, quite obviously.


    "John the Baptist is Elijah." This is another "lying for Jesus" quote. It's the same way how Isaiah 7:14 has a mistranslation and uses the word "Virgin" instead of the real translated hebrew word "young woman" or in aramic, "Young Maiden" in the naturalistic sense as the dead sea scrolls and the jewish hebrew language have obviously revealed, and that Hebrew is the FIRST translation of the OT scriptures, no question about it. So with that in mind, the idea at play here is similar but instead of a mistranslation, it's taking the verse totally out of context to "lie for Jesus" some more. Malachi 4:5-6 states that Elijah himself both body and spirit. There is no "Elijah's spirit only" in this verse like some Christians like to claim. And there is no indication that John is doing this in the scripture which Elijah was supposed to do in the first place, "And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers."


    With that in mind, we now fast forward to Jesus' time and see where he quotes Elijah; Matthew 11:14, Matthew 17:12-13. Jesus is clearly stating with these two verses in mind, that John the Baptist is the one Elijah returned to earth as. Both body and spirit. But when the Jewish leaders sent priests and levites to ask John the Baptist if he was really Elijah, he clearly stated, "NO" in John 1:19-23. He was even questioned if he was the Messiah in those verses which he clearly stated, "I am not the Messiah" as well. John gives an explanation for who he is. He is,

    "I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord" which was foreshadowed by the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 40:3.


    So with this in mind, where does this leave Jesus' bold claim? If Jesus knows things before they occur like at the last supper when he said one of his followers will betray him which happened, then what is his explanation for not saying John the Baptist was going to lie about not being Elijah? The only logical conclusion is that Jesus was sorely mistaken. And perhaps even lied about John's identity.



    JESUS DIDN'T FULFILL THE JEWISH PROPHECIES




    Not to mention that since he claims to be God, he should've fulfilled the prophecies that he prophesied about in the OT, right? Well he clearly didn't. And just like Numbers 23:19 states, "Is there anything God doesn't fulfill?" Let's see.


    He failed one of the first OT prophecies which was to be descended from king David and king Solomon. Genesis 49:10 states that the messiah would descend from king David's side and king Solomon in Chronicles 22:9-10. Jesus already failed this due to a virgin birth. Mary in the NT has no genealogy except for it being hinted at in Luke 1:34-36. The angel confirmed Mary is biologically blood related to Elizabeth. And Luke 1:5 clearly states that Elizabeth is descended from king Aaron. Therefore since Mary is blood related to Elizabeth, she also follows that lineage. So we can conclude Mary is descended from king Aaron of the Levi tribe. There is no mention other than this of her genealogy.


    We can also disregard her being descended from king David and Solomon at this point and also because she is not mentioned anywhere in the NT that she was descended from those two anyway. Now, even though Joseph is descended from king David and Solomon, he is disqualified from having any affiliation with Jesus since he made no biological contribution to Jesus' birth as clearly mentioned in Matthew 1:22-25. Only after his birth did Mary and Joseph biologically "consummate." This is a clear indication that Jesus failed this OT prophecy.


    There are many other prophecies he didn't fulfill such as Jeramiah 30:3 and Isaiah 11:11-12 stating that the messiah would have been able to convince all the jews who are away from Israel to come back to their original home which is Israel. The third temple should've been built while the messiah was reigning the first time around; Isaiah 2:2-3, Ezekiel 37:26-27. There should've been worldwide peace and a complete end to war while the messiah reigned the first time around; Isaiah 60:18, Micah 4:1-4. But instead Jesus came to bring endless war and not peace as mentioned here, Matthew 10:34. Jesus never ruled as king, never sat on David's throne as king over Israel. Not all the jews observed God's commandments in the Torah, Deuteronomy 30:8. Not all people came to worship the one and only God in the Torah, Ezekiel 38:23.


    Everything here prophesied in the OT was never fulfilled by Jesus' first coming. And so to make up for this, Christians claim that Jesus will one day come back to fulfill the OT prophecies he failed to do the first time around. This gives more incentive for the Jews not to think of him as the messiah even more though. As there is no second coming prophecy in the OT and the real Messiah would complete these prophecies the first time around, outright. Jesus simply lied about being God since he made the claim that he was God, yet, failed to do what he "supposedly" prophesied about in the OT. Proving him to be nothing more than a liar.



    JESUS WAS NEVER NEEDED IN THE FIRST PLACE ACCORDING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT




    There are plenty of bible verses in the OT about how God is acknowledged by the Jewish people as the one who is their "salvation" himself before Jesus decided to play God in the NT a couple thousand years later; Exodus 15:2, Psalm 65:5, Psalm 25:5, Isaiah 12:2, Psalm 62:1, Isaiah 45:15, Isaiah 60:16, Hosea 13:4, Psalm 3:8, Isaiah 52:10, Psalm 98:2, Isaiah 49:6, Psalm 118:14, 1 samuel 2:1, 2 Samuel 22:2-3, Psalm 18:46, Isaiah 33:22, Psalm 37:40.


    This is just the start of it. GOD in the OT is obviously referred to also as the ROCK, I AM and the LORD, which equals YHWH and means "Yahweh" from english to Hebrew which is GOD himself, as you all should know by now to those who've read it. God chose Moses to lead Israel on the path to their God. Here's a great example of Moses speaking about God; Deuteronomy 31:30, Deuteronomy 32:1-16. Key verses; Deuteronomy 32:3-4 and Deuteronomy 32:15. Moses states that God is the rock and that he is the savior/salvation and that rejecting him leaves dire consequences as mentioned throughout all of deuteronomy 32.



    God explicitly says in the OT, "I am the savior and there is no other besides me;" Isaiah 45:21-22 and Isaiah 43:11. "If you believe in me, you will be saved." This is a big problem for Christians and quite evidently disproves the whole idea of the "New Covenant."


    This begs the question, what is the purpose of Jesus when God himself before Jesus' time already said that he is the savior and there is no other besides him and that we should turn to God for salvation before the NT and Jesus even existed?


    P.S, this is GOD himself speaking these words. Not a man claiming to be God, not a middleman, not a son of god, not a son of man, not a prophet, not a messiah, not a man of god... just GOD himself in the so called, "Old Testament."


    Let's put all the pieces of evidence from the OT together that we have established thus far:


    1. Before Jesus, God himself said he was the savior and that there is no other besides him. And if you believe in him then you will be saved.
    2. Before Jesus, Moses referred to God as the Rock and the savior
    3. Most OT iconic figures and OT prophets referred to God as their savior.


    With all this refutation against the New Testament, I don't think there is a leg for Christianity to stand on anymore. Jesus has been proven a liar, is not God, is not the messiah and he was never needed in the first place.
     
    #1 Only Reason, Jun 11, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
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  2. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Considering the whole thing is ancient mythology, I don't think it really matters.
     
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  3. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    That's hardcore right there. :smilingimp:
     
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  4. Semmelweis Reflex

    Semmelweis Reflex Antivaxxer

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    In Hebrew what is the difference between god (El) and God with the definite article (Ha El)?
     
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  5. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    I will try to make this short. In the OT God was not in a mortal body as such he was “not a man”. (The repeating bit I think just has to do with God being perfect).

    From birth to death Jesus had a semi mortal body and it had some limits. Once resurrected He has a perfect body and all knowledge and power.
     
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  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    The vowels are different. God is better pronounced Ail with a long A sound. El is a preposition.

    Edit to add: compare Gen 1:9 el the preposition with Gen 14:18 L'Ail the God.
     
    #6 dybmh, Jun 11, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
  7. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Jolly good.
     
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  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Jesus never claimed to be God so Jesus did not lie about being God. It was the Christians who claimed that Jesus was God because they misinterpreted the Bible and decided the Jesus was God.

    Jesus is not God Bible verses
     
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  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, it was not God Himself speaking in the Old Testament, it was prophets speaking for God.
    And actually it was not even prophets who wrote the OT, it was unnamed men.
    This is a far cry from God Himself speaking.

    God never speaks directly to anyone except Prophets and Messengers who act as mediators between God and man. Moses and Jesus were two such mediators but not the only ones.
     
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  10. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    With all this creative and exhaustive post, I hope you can now sleep well. :D
     
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  11. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did not say "I am God" and in the OT God did not say " I cannot become a man".
    The New Covenant is something God promised in the OT.
    If God is the only saviour and Jesus is the one sent, the Christ, the one who died as our saviour, that means that Jesus is our God.
     
  12. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    There is only one Gospel which claims Jesus' to be God.
    The sacred authors attribute may statements of a believing community to be on the lips of Jesus.
     
  13. Mark La Buda

    Mark La Buda Member

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    I do not agree with your post that claims the Jesus claimed to be God Almighty. The scriptures you provided (Exodus 3:14; John 8:58; compare Colossians 1:15) do not support you claim. I do agree that Jesus is not God.
     
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  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Let me guess. One is definite?
     
  15. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Of course the vowels didn't find their way into the text until the first century CE.
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I also do not believe that Jesus is God. I believe He is a Manifestation of God.

    When God sent Jesus, God was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh and revealed the Word of God to humanity.

    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    Jesus never claimed to be God, not once in the entire New Testament. Christians who believe that Jesus is God have misinterpreted the verses that they believe mean Jesus is God, so they don't understand what they mean.

    Jesus is not God Bible verses
     
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  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    God can't lie so when He says He is Jesus then that is the truth.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is the Word of God which is not ancient mythology.
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is the devil that lies which make me wonder about this post.
     
  20. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I think your response is meant for another person.
     
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