Provide me a one single benefit of going on moon ?

[ChristineM]

Bacon has its place, but on pizza I prefer anchovies.

I do like bacon on pizza.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do like bacon on pizza.

Well, of course...other than moving to France, you've shown excellent judgment.

 

[ChristineM]

Well, of course...other than moving to France, you've shown excellent judgment.

You have no idea how nice it is her. A green and pleasant land. And, its so unpolluted with smog and light we can even see the moon at night.

Talking of moon, where do you think all the cheese comes from?

 

[Revoltingest]

You have no idea how nice it is her. A green and pleasant land. And, its so unpolluted with smog and light we can even see the moon at night.

Talking of moon, where do you think all the cheese comes from?

The best comes from between the toes of elves.
The worst comes from.....nah...not going there.

 

[Father Heathen]

The moon is a stepping stone toward humanity's inevitable colonization beyond this rock.

 

[Father Heathen]

The best comes from between the toes of elves.
The worst comes from.....nah...not going there.

That assessment from extensive taste testing?

 

[Deeje]

Exploring space doesn't mean ignoring social ills.
It's just that not every dollar goes to their mitigation.
Moreover, even if we gave up all scientific inquiry,
poverty, war, & disease would continue unabated.

Hang on....where did I suggest giving up all scientific enquiry?

I just suggested that if humans had their priorities right, making life more tolerable on earth should come first before sticking our noses into space as if it needs our attention as a primary concern.

Has it ever occurred to people that inner space needs conquering first? Why can we go to the moon and send probes to other planets when inner space is being assaulted by enemies that we dont seem to be able to conquer here on Earth. How come we have all this scientific knowledge that enables humans to explore the possibilities that space travel can open up, but humans are suffering and dying because we can't conquer our inner space which is completely accessible without resorting to expensive modes of travel to access it. Do you understand my point here?

Why, in this day and age, are humans still suffering? Why are they allowed to suffer when we have the means to prevent it?

It's the opposite of an elite few....everyone gets to know more about their universe, ie, to be embiggened by knowing of marvelous new discoveries & observations, eg, dark matter, dark energy, gravity waves, alien worlds, black holes, perhaps some day even alien life.

Try explaining how important those things are to someone watching their child succumb to cancer, or watching a preventable disease taking lives because someone can't afford a medicine that is relatively cheap to produce. Greedy humans profiting from science do this. Why do we accept it?

How do you explain the poor performance in areas of human health, yet these amazing successes in space exploration and in sophisticated military weaponry? It can't be a lack of funds because money is always available for space or military application....why is the most important component in life on this planet so far down on the list?

BTW....Did you know that humans have been interacting with alien lifeforms from the beginning? The one we call "God" is an extraterrestrial being and so are angels. Just sayin......

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Its all wastage of time and money, nothing else.

Learning. The thing our species does best (when it bothers doing it at all).\

Efforts such as these, and many others that some people like you considered wastes of time and money, also helped us to learn the science and technology to solve countless real problems, and prepare to solve others we don't yet know of, but will almost certainly come.

Why do so many people undervalue knowledge, I wonder?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Hang on....where did I suggest giving up all scientific enquiry?

I just suggested that if humans had their priorities right, making life more tolerable on earth should come first before sticking our noses into space as if it needs our attention as a primary concern.

Has it ever occurred to people that inner space needs conquering first? Why can we go to the moon and send probes to other planets when inner space is being assaulted by enemies that we dont seem to be able to conquer here on Earth. How come we have all this scientific knowledge that enables humans to explore the possibilities that space travel can open up, but humans are suffering and dying because we can't conquer our inner space which is completely accessible without resorting to expensive modes of travel to access it. Do you understand my point here?

Why, in this day and age, are humans still suffering? Why are they allowed to suffer when we have the means to prevent it?



Try explaining how important those things are to someone watching their child succumb to cancer, or watching a preventable disease taking lives because someone can't afford a relatively medicine that is relatively cheap to produce. Greedy humans profiting from science do this. Why do we accept it?

How do you explain the poor performance in areas of human health, yet these amazing successes in space exploration and in sophisticated military weaponry? It can't be a lack of funds because money is always available for space or military application....why is the most important component in life on this planet so far down on the list?

BTW....Did you know that humans have been interacting with alien lifeforms from the beginning? The one we call "God" is an extraterrestrial being and so are angels. Just sayin......

Are you not aware how much is spent on all of the things that you mention? It is, frankly, vastly more than is spent on space travel. But why limit ourselves to just fixing problems? Why do you object to spending at least some effort on learning for the sake of learning?

 

[Deeje]

Are you not aware how much is spent on all of the things that you mention? It is, frankly, vastly more than is spent on space travel. But why limit ourselves to just fixing problems? Why do you object to spending at least some effort on learning for the sake of learning?

Ah...so much money lining the pockets of scientists and research institutes, who are supposed to be trying to find "cures" for conditions that plague the human race....but they never happen. The public are asked to support these multi-billion dollar industries by raising money for research.....like they can't afford it themselves, creaming a fat profit off the sick, suffering and dying......it never leads to cures.....does it? In fact more people die every year from cancer and heart disease than anything else.....diabetes is another epidemic sweeping the world....it has everything to do with what we eat and yet people treat food as if all it has to do is taste good....and the faster and cheaper it is to acquire, the better. How can people be so stupid?

Have you noticed how many "breakthroughs" we are told about in the media, with great excitement, but it will be 10 years before we see it on the market? Where are all those breakthroughs we heard about 10 years ago? Medical science has no interest in "curing" anything. It wants to come up with "treatments" that might deal with symptoms but never cure any of the conditions that people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for every year, in the vain belief that they need them to stay alive. They are the perpetual "customers" created to make drug companies and their CEO very wealthy.

No one is saying we don't need to spend money for the sake of learning....but PLEASE allow the money spent on research to lead to something that isn't just fleecing a sick population who have been indoctrinated to accept whatever they are told. What if the cures have been around for centuries and they have been shelved by greedy men just so that they can increase their bottom line...? Nothing surprises me about the commercial world anymore. How many institutions that were trusted in the past have proven to have been unworthy of that trust all along? Only now is the truth being revealed.....and its filthy.

"The love of money is the root of all evil".....I believe that is more true today than when it was written.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Ah...so much money lining the pockets of scientists and research institutes, who are supposed to be trying to find "cures" for conditions that plague the human race....but they never happen. The public are asked to support these multi-billion dollar industries by raising money for research.....like they can't afford it themselves, creaming a fat profit off the sick, suffering and dying......it never leads to cures.....does it? In fact more people die every year from cancer and heart disease than anything else.....diabetes is another epidemic sweeping the world....it has everything to do with what we eat and yet people treat food as if all it has to do is taste good....and the faster and cheaper it is to acquire, the better. How can people be so stupid?

Have you noticed how many "breakthroughs" we are told about in the media, with great excitement, but it will be 10 years before we see it on the market? Where are all those breakthroughs we heard about 10 years ago? Medical science has no interest in "curing" anything. It wants to come up with "treatments" that might deal with symptoms but never cure any of the conditions that people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for every year, in the vain belief that they need them to stay alive. They are the perpetual "customers" created to make drug companies and their CEO very wealthy.

No one is saying we don't need to spend money for the sake of learning....but PLEASE allow the money spent on research to lead to something that isn't just fleecing a sick population who have been indoctrinated to accept whatever they are told. What if the cures have been around for centuries and they have been shelved by greedy men just so that they can increase their bottom line...? Nothing surprises me about the commercial world anymore. How many institutions that were trusted in the past have proven to have been unworthy of that trust all along? Only now is the truth being revealed.....and its filthy.

"The love of money is the root of all evil".....I believe that is more true today than when it was written.

Fascinating....you're blaming science for the stupidities of people who aren't involved. Science can tell you what you should and should not eat, but if you decide to tell science to take a hike, well whose fault is that? And all those breakthroughs...oh yes, they happen...and then the government gets involved and says "we have to approve it first," even though nobody in government knows diddly squat about the science involved.

And for the record, in case this is just another of the things you are ignorant about, human lifespan has increased in lockstep with the discoveries of science. Had you been born a hundred thousand years ago, you'd have been lucky to see 25 years old. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, life expectancy for men in 1907 was 45.6 years; by 1957 it rose to 66.4; in 2007 it reached 75.5. And these are the years in which all that science was done. And how old are you?

But never mind me, this is just something else I assume you don't want to know about...

 

[Revoltingest]

That assessment from extensive taste testing?

And the occasional unexpected regurgitation.

 

[Father Heathen]

And the occasional unexpected regurgitation.

That's turned my stomach a little...

 

[Revoltingest]

Hang on....where did I suggest giving up all scientific enquiry?

I didn't imply that.

I just suggested that if humans had their priorities right, making life more tolerable on earth should come first before sticking our noses into space as if it needs our attention as a primary concern.

I have different priorities.
And government can multitask.

Has it ever occurred to people that inner space needs conquering first?

This is your priority.
Many of us wouldn't give up space exploration until life is a bowl of cherries
for all. Broadening everyone's understanding of the universe has value too.

Try explaining how important those things are to someone watching their child succumb to cancer, or watching a preventable disease taking lives because someone can't afford a medicine that is relatively cheap to produce. Greedy humans profiting from science do this. Why do we accept it?

I don't make decisions based upon sad eyed waifs tugging on heartstrings.

BTW....Did you know that humans have been interacting with alien lifeforms from the beginning? The one we call "God" is an extraterrestrial being and so are angels. Just sayin......

That belief system is foreign to me, & is yet
another basis upon which I don't make decisions.

 

[Deeje]

Fascinating....you're blaming science for the stupidities of people who aren't involved.

There is no cure for stupidity. Its not the same as ignorance however, which can be remedied by knowledge. Yet do we see the govenors removing the danger that ends up costing them billions of health dollars in the long run....why? When you have small children and they do not have the mental capacity to understand dangerous substances, then don't you remove them? Don't you take the responsibility for self harm away, as far as it is possible?

There is so much that could be done just with food alone, but no one wants to do it? Why? Substituting sugar with more natural sweeteners for example.....not artificial sweeteners because these have been shown to cause serious health problems over time. But we humans do have a sweet tooth and so sugar laden foods and drinks are contributing to an obesity epidemic that has terrible consequences. The more we get away from naturally produced foods, the worse our health gets. Who is doing anything about that? Is that rocket science.....?

We have lost the ability to be self-sufficient....which makes us slaves to the system.....with little choice about how our food is produced. We are what we eat, you know.

Science can tell you what you should and should not eat, but if you decide to tell science to take a hike, well whose fault is that? And all those breakthroughs...oh yes, they happen...and then the government gets involved and says "we have to approve it first," even though nobody in government knows diddly squat about the science involved.

So who is behind the push to put a lid on all that research? If it comes to nothing, what was the point of spending all that money on it? Do you not see corruption in the system that allows this to continue?

We see medicinal cannabis making great inroads in the health debates....yet so many are still trying to keep it out of the hands of those who could benefit from this very inexpensive plant. Why do that with something beneficial and yet allow people all the sugar poison they want till it kills them?

And for the record, in case this is just another of the things you are ignorant about, human lifespan has increased in lockstep with the discoveries of science.

Have you done a tour of any nursing homes recently? Human lifespans may have increased, but again what is the point of keeping the elderly alive if they enjoy very little quality of life? If all you are is a body in a bed being kept alive by artificial means then is that a life worth living? The pharmaceutical industry profits and so do the nursing homes....but not the residents. I have much first hand experience in this area. It is appalling.

Had you been born a hundred thousand years ago, you'd have been lucky to see 25 years old. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, life expectancy for men in 1907 was 45.6 years; by 1957 it rose to 66.4; in 2007 it reached 75.5. And these are the years in which all that science was done. And how old are you?

Living longer if its not living better is hardly a step forward. The medical profession likes to take credit for these increases in lifespan, but as humans progress in knowledge, should we not expect to live better and longer? Yet today malnutrition is the greatest cause of death. The malnourishment comes, not just from a lack of food, but from the way food is produced and processed.

We lose vital minerals, vitamins and enzymes in the current production methods.....but because most of us have no access to land or time for growing our own food, we have little choice....unless we are wealthy enough to buy organic produce.

But never mind me, this is just something else I assume you don't want to know about...

You assume that I don't know about things because I disagree with you?....I see things more clearly than most because I do not swallow the party line and trust the powers that be to be concerned about my welfare.

My vantage point is not confined to what is taking place on this earth. A higher elevation reveals so much more....

 

[Brickjectivity]

Its all wastage of time and money, nothing else.

Actually I don't agree.

One of the big drawbacks of space projects is that they have to be constructed on Earth and flown up at $10,000+ per ounce. If the purpose of going to the moon is to research mining and manufacturing then a temporary moon base is a good investment for the right company with government backing, particularly companies that manufacture complex machines. It would also have benefits for planet Earth. The benefits would come from all the gizmos and craft we could build in space plus the research. At the moment its hard to get things into space, expensive. Much of the expense is in the fuel and insurance required.

I also don't know if the moon is the optimal place for mining long term, but it is the optimal place to develop space mining and manufacturing methods. Its got gravity, light, water, oxygen and rocks. That means you can get people to go there. You can also heat and cool things there, whereas on a space station you have more trouble with heating and cooling. You send people to the moon temporarily, they develop the mining and manufacturing methods.

Maybe its better to mine asteroids. They're closer, but they don't have as much gravity and mass; so I think it will be better to adapt earth mining methods on the moon in preparation for mining asteroids. If you can mine the from the moon materials to construct a centrifuge habitat in space then you can get the people willing to live in space, whereas currently going into space is very bad for your health.

The main payout is an ability to construct things in space using materials taken from space and transported with fuel obtained in space. That would be worthwhile for the right company.

 

[Stevicus]

Sagan was a great guy.
But Rodenberry had more influence.

I seem to recall reading that Roddenberry's original idea for Star Trek was a kind of "Wagon Train to the Stars," kind of like pioneers in the Old West. It's the spirit of adventurism, where people venture out into unknown territory and risking everything in the hope of finding a better place to live.

It wasn't all for the sake of profit. Like that agricultural colony where they inhaled spores and felt really, really good. Even Spock was laughing and playing kissy-poo with that young woman. And then Kirk ruined everything.

But there are a few snags - such as the lack of warp engines. ("We need those engines, Scotty!") We also have to figure out how to keep the tribbles out of the food processors.

But even if those and other problems are resolved, there's also the matter of whether any of the planets out there can support human life. I once read an essay (and I can't remember where, although I wish I could) that life that's evolved to survive here on Earth may not be compatible with life on any other planets, even if they can support life in general. If there is any life out there, it may not be any form of life we can even conceive of in Earth terms.

 

[Milton Platt]

Funny thing about that....
Many Amerindians would prefer that Columbus stayed home.
One group's bold exploration is another's virulent plague.

 

[Milton Platt]

Its all wastage of time and money, nothing else.

That sort of thing falls into the same category as a lot of research. One does not always know the outcomes of the research or what benefits it will have down the road. It often isn't the actual act of getting into orbit, or getting to the moon, that contains the benefits. It is the research done in order to do it that spins off unexpected benefits.

 

[Salvador]

I pick bust.

I wouldn't fault anybody for his lack of enthusiasm towards going to Mars where the average surface temperature is now a frigid minus sixty degrees Celsius.

However,, the human colonization of Mars, increasing living space, is the ultimate solution for getting rid of over-crowded places here on Earth.

There should be no worries about high levels of atmospheric CH4 and C02 due to industrialization or overpopulation, because these greenhouse gases could be sent away to Mars where they'd transform Mars into a warmer planet; this methane and carbon dioxide would help transform Mars into a way more comfortable place for sustaining life from Earth. Any excessive levels of these green house gases could simply be transported via the Space X interplanetary transport system from Earth to Mars.

The first step towards forming a man-made biosphere that is an appreciable fraction in size comparable to Earth's biosphere around Mars as well as on the surface of Mars ( terraforrming ) is the deployment of a magnetic shield that protects Mars against the solar wind stripping of its atmosphere. This magnetic shielding would subsequently allow the planet's atmosphere to reacquire its former density that'd be high enough to allow for sustainable surface liquid water.

Reference: https://phys.org/news/2017-03-nasa-magne...phere.html

An effective artificial magnetosphere placed at Langrangian point 1 from Mars is very achievable with foreseeable technology. This magnetic shielding apparatus could weigh less than a few hundred tonnes which is within the load capacity of a big Falcon 9 rocket. I'm guessing the cost of protecting the Martian atmosphere with an artificial magnetosphere would probably be similar to the cost of a small nuclear reactor.

In addition to CH4 (methane) and C02 (carbon dioxide), some few billion tonnes of sulfur hexafluoride gas (SF6) could increase Martian atmospheric surface temperatures by over 20 degrees Celsius. Sulfur hexafluoride - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The SpaceX interplanetary transport system could deliver this super greenhouse gas to Mars at a cost of less than $2,000/kg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Mar...astructure

A few hundred thousand tonnes of SF6 delivered annually to Mars would cost just approximately $500 billion yearly. This is less than a fraction of a percent of the global economic output value. An accumulation of a few billion tonnes of SF6 at an annual rate of a few hundred thousand tonnes would take less than ten thousand years. The annual cost of less than $100 per person per year on Earth would be totally worth transforming Mars into a world with triple its current atmospheric pressure and a warmer Mars with average surface temperatures greater than typical summer Antarctic temperatures.

The forming a man-made biosphere that is an appreciable fraction in size comparable to Earth's biosphere around Mars as well as on the surface of Mars ( terraforrming ) would create many high tech jobs, and save planet Earth by way of transferring away its harmful global warming green house gases to Mars where these gases would be beneficial as they'd contribute to forming a man-made biosphere that is an appreciable fraction in size comparble to Earth's biosphere. This project ( terraforming ) to make Mars a better place for human colonization there should be dubbed the "Green New Deal for Earth and Mars". I'd favor the "Green New Deal for Earth and Mars" instead of the Green New Deal that'd only be focused on Earth