1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Proven Science says there is No Universe without Conscious Man to Observe it.

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Steven Merten, Jul 8, 2019.

?
  1. Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)

    5 vote(s)
    38.5%
  2. Albert Einstein (Father of atheist scientist philosophy of 'Realism')

    8 vote(s)
    61.5%
  1. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)
    "It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"

    Verses
    Albert Einstein
    "I'd like to think the moon was there even when I wasn't looking at it." (Realism)
    Science cannot claim evolution when proven science indicates that the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it. No universe before/without conscious man, thus no evolution before conscious man.

    If there was a universe five days before Adam was created, it would be a scientific miracle.


    The Great Neils Bohr VS Albert Einstein Debate
    on scientific Reality


     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,588
    Ratings:
    +12,494
    Religion:
    Druidry
    It's important to consider the implications of the stories that we tell ourselves. What are the implications? Especially if you are not a man and are not a Christian?
     
  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    13,047
    Ratings:
    +8,956
    Religion:
    None

    Evolution is proven beyond doubt

    The universe has existed for more than 13.7 billion years before beings able to observe (at least part of it) came along?
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  4. Whippet

    Whippet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    184
    Ratings:
    +64
    Religion:
    Not sure
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    646
    Ratings:
    +367
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Prove that you exist.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  6. Stanyon

    Stanyon RF's Ultra -Square

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,863
    Ratings:
    +1,845
    Religion:
    Living
    Reminds me of the "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?"
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Has everyone watched the PBS Video? What are they talking about when they say Neils Bohr's 'Peek A Boo' universe, a universe which does not exist when conscious man is not observing it?
     
  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    10,657
    Ratings:
    +4,646
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    First science proves nothing particularly from the scientific perspective, and philosophical assertions offer nothing to support the conclusions of the nature of our physical existence.

    I side with neither since they assert philosophical conclusions on how we interpret the 'information' we have concerning the nature of our physical existence, and not the science. The science of reality is simply the descriptive nature of our physical existence, nothing less nor nothing more. The science of Einstein and Neils Bohr are excellent and descriptive of the nature of our physical existence from the science perspective.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Hello Whippet,
    We are talking about the esteemed scientists, fathers of Quantum Mechanics, Neils Bohr and Albert Einstein.
     
  10. dmap

    dmap God is good and beautiful

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings:
    +395
    Religion:
    deist monotheist agnostic panentheist
    If humans are the only observers capable of triggering wave function collapse, this implies the universe didn't exist as Reality until the first human observed it, and then "bam": it suddenly appeared (as all wavefunctions from 14.5 billion years collapsed for the first time).

    Thus the big bang occurred when humans appeared and became conscious. But how could biology occur without prior wavefunction collapse?

    Also: this implies that only upon seeing a phenomena for the first time triggers wavefunction collapse for the entire past history of the particles in question. This makes no sense. The universe doesn't need human observation to function.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    10,657
    Ratings:
    +4,646
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Yes, I have seen the video several times, and enjoy PBS videos on science and scientists. Neils Bohr' description of the universe is from a philosopher's perspective and not science, and is not widely held by other scientists.

    Personally from the perspective of a scientist the conclusion is not meaningful a conclusion based on science which is only descriptive for the nature of out physical existence, and nothing beyond this.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    10,657
    Ratings:
    +4,646
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Yes, they are esteemed scientists, and I study their science over the years, but concerning their philosophy I am neutral.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    146,102
    Ratings:
    +40,381
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Those are the opinions of 2 mere mortals.
    Sure, sure, they were smart.
    But that doesn't mean that all they say is correct.
    And to reason from their musings can still only result in opinion.
    Add to this the problem that nothing in science is ever proven true, for all
    theories are conditional, & stand ready to be replaced by better ones.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Does everyone agree that Albert Einstein, the smartest man ever, spent a great deal of his valuable thinking time, decades of his life, trying to come up with a way to prove the universe exists even when conscious man is not looking at it?

    Are people who think they are scientifically smart today, thinking this was a waste of Albert Einstein's valuable thought, time?
     
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    146,102
    Ratings:
    +40,381
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    I don't know who the smartest person ever is.
    I'd never heard that he tried to prove what you say.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    10,657
    Ratings:
    +4,646
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    I detect more than a hint of extreme sarcasm, which his no place in science. Actually Einstein has been wrong in some of his science and math.
     
  17. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Does everyone agree that an electron changes its course of past travel, when conscious man observes it? How did an electron 'evolve' to know when man is looking at it, and thus go back in physical time to change its path of travel?

     
  18. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    Catholic
    I am not being sarcastic. Albert Einstein and Neils Bohr were extremely serious about whether or not we had a reality without conscious man to observe the universe and they spent a tremendous amount of valuable, great minds, thinking and debating on the issue.
     
  19. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    646
    Ratings:
    +367
    Religion:
    agnostic
    He was wrong about stuff too. He rejected quantum mechanics.

    5 times Einstein was wrong
     
  20. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    Catholic
     
Loading...