Protestant and Catholic theological differences.

[Dogknox20]

Exactly, as baptism back almost 2000 years ago was more of a family affair, although one could obviously do it on their own as well. And, as in the past, child baptism is still a family affair.

metis I hope all is well with you... I reply.... I am not sure what you mean by these; your words.... although one could obviously do it on their own as well.
Fact is.... No one can baptize themselves! Church the Bride of Christ does the baptizing with water & Jesus the Groom sends the Gift of Fire/Holy Spirit!

Two (2) parents "form" every child... Children cannot form themselves, the Infant has no say in the matter! The person is IMMERSED into the Holy Catholic body of Christ! NOTHING...
metis nothing says the person will stay in the body of Christ... It is just the first step, we have to REMAIN in his holy body!!

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
&
John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Baptism IMMERSES the person into the body of the second Adam; all IN Jesus call God father! All In Jesus honor Mary as their mother!

 

[metis]

metis I hope all is well with you... I reply.... I am not sure what you mean by these; your words.... although one could obviously do it on their own as well.
Fact is.... No one can baptize themselves! Church the Bride of Christ does the baptizing with water & Jesus the Groom sends the Gift of Fire/Holy Spirit!

Two (2) parents "form" every child... Children cannot form themselves, the Infant has no say in the matter! The person is IMMERSED into the Holy Catholic body of Christ! NOTHING...
metis nothing says the person will stay in the body of Christ... It is just the first step, we have to REMAIN in his holy body!!

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
&
John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Baptism IMMERSES the person into the body of the second Adam; all IN Jesus call God father! All In Jesus honor Mary as their mother!

You're "preaching to the choir".

 

[Dogknox20]

You answered your own question. What do you think a "commitment" is? Can a baby make a commitment?

I reply... The Parents form the child! The infant has no say in the matter! As if the infant can pick his or her family?! Infants are sinless so they can be formed into the body of Jesus there is NO sin in Jesus! The Adult confesses their sins for forgiveness... and are IMMERSED into the holy body of Jesus! Infants do not need to confess; they have no sins!
Deeje I suppose you picked your own parents?? LOL! You decided who your parents will be; Give your head a shake!

Think: John' baptism was for the forgiveness of Sins! These people baptized by John were still NOT in God' family because Pentecost had not happened yet! The Thief on the cross went to Paradise.. Paradise is a GARDEN it is not in the KINGDOM!

Rev 2:7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
The Good Thief did not enter the kingdom he died before Pentecost he entered PARADISE a GARDEN!!

LOOK... John the Baptist died before Pentecost.. He was NOT IMMERSED in to only child of God; Jesus!
Matt 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Deeje QUESTION...Who is greater John or the person IN the KINGDOM?! What do you read in your bible?
Luke 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”

Deeje To be IN the kingdom you MUST be baptized it is just this simple... 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
.......................................Jesus sends the gift the Church forms with water!

 

[Dogknox20]

You're "preaching to the choir".

metis What did you mean by these words?.... although one could obviously do it on their own as well.

 

[metis]

metis What did you mean by these words?.... although one could obviously do it on their own as well.

I never said nor implied they could, so I have no clue what you were complaining about.

 

[Dogknox20]

I never said nor implied they could, so I have no clue what you were complaining about.

Looks like you are saying "A person can baptize their self!" Tis all....This is what I am "complaining about"!

 

[pearl]

To our way of thinking, the moral climate of university life is no place for a Christian. We are told to distance ourselves from bad influences. And an academic degree is no guarantee of employment anyway. Many find themselves overqualified for what jobs there are available.

What a poor excuse for remaining in fear of knowledge. Your way of thinking is the box that stunts growth.

We would rather just earn a modest living doing whatever jobs are available so that we can devote more time to spiritual pursuits. That is our choice...we are not forcing it on anyone else.

And you don't find that position to be a bit hypocritical? Unless of course you never use the services of doctors, dentists and other professionals. Apparently, you consider these to be equivalent to the 'tax collectors'.

Why did Jesus choose Peter to feed his sheep? Because he knew Peter's character

With all his human weaknesses.

loyalty for his God and for his teache

For his Messiah

You're funny....as far as I know,

You don't recognize sarcasm?

What do you think "inspired of God" actually means? (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
I can guarantee you that not one word of scripture was penned by a Catholic.

You are trying to confine catholic to the Roman Church, catholic as used in the NT refers to the 'whole' or 'universal'.
Acts 9:31 (Greek Bible), “ai men oun ekklēsiai kath olēs tēs ioudaias kai galilaias kai samareias eichon eirēnēn oikodomoumenai kai poreuomenai tō phobō tou kuriou kai tē paraklēsei tou agiou pneumatos eplēthunonto” EKKLESIA KATH’OLES.

The term “Catholic”, derived from the Greek word καθολικός (katholikos), which means “universal” or “general”, was also used to describe the Church in the early 2nd century. The term katholikos is equivalent to καθόλου (katholou), a contraction of the phrase καθ’ ὅλου (kath’ holou) meaning “according to the whole”. Thus the full name Catholic Church roughly means “universal” or “whole” church,

Acts 9:3l RSV: So the Church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied.

3650 hólos (a primitive adjective and the root of the English term “whole”) – properly, wholly, where all the parts are present and working as a whole – i.e. as the total, which is greater than the mere sum of the parts. This factor is especially significant in metaphorical contexts or those focusing on the spiritual plane.
What’s interesting about ὅλος vs ὅλη is that “ὅλη” is feminine whereas ὅλος is masculine. Notice later on in Acts 15:22, and in other areas, the feminine is used, because it refers to the whole Church, which is the Bride of Christ. This usage holds true in many examples to the believer and the Church, for Christ is a non-sexual model of a Husband.
The Catholic Church does not refer only to the Church of Rome.

How strange that the second person of the trinity didn't know what the first one did...

Jesus is wholly human, not a god-man, like us in all ways except sin.
"For love of us he has not refused to descend to such a low position as to bear all that belongs to out nature, included in which is ignorance'

It isn't doomsday that we are predicting...it is the coming of God's Kingdom...you know the one that Jesus stated as part of the model prayer for all of his disciples....."Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".....

'The kingdom of God is upon you'. it is now, not yet complete. Maybe it speaks of transformation, 'on earth as it is in heaven', and not destruction.

 

[metis]

Looks like you are saying "A person can baptize their self!" Tis all....This is what I am "complaining about"!

Nope as I was definitely not saying that. Quite the opposite as I clearly stated that baptism is a family affair done through the Church. Only in an emergency can anyone else administer baptism.

The part whereas I said "on their own" meant that a person can seek baptism without other family members present.

 

[Dogknox20]

Nope as I was definitely not saying that. Quite the opposite as I clearly stated that baptism is a family affair done through the Church. Only in an emergency can anyone else administer baptism.

The part whereas I said "on their own" meant that a person can seek baptism without other family members present.

Okay great.... Good to get that off my mind! Take care

 

[Dogknox20]

Continuation from post # 85
Protestant & Catholic Theological Differences
Catholic's believe literally all of John chapter 6 "The Manna was killed on the cross"!
The Protestant will say "Jesus was speaking metaphorically Jesus did not mean any of his words, his words count for nothing"!

First I must point out the Early Church was a Catholic Church they record "Eating Jesus' flesh"!
Next "Baptism IMMERSES us into the body of Jesus" Communion with the living flesh of Jesus (manna) KEEPS us in his body; eating the Flesh means we REMAIN IMMERSED in Jesus!
John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
&
John 15:4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Baptism immerses us into Jesus Communion KEEPS us in Jesus!

Many Protestants reject communion as being only symbolic metaphor; if this is the case then all of John 6 was a waste of ink and paper believing Jesus said.... "Forgetaboutit" all of my words count for northing. 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.
IF the Protestant was to read the second half of verse 63 The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
Clearly The words I have spoken is PAST TENSE! This means all the teaching from verse 45 ‘They will all be taught by God. down to verse #59 He said this while teaching are the words that give life... these words are full of Spirit and LIFE! ALL...
All the words between John 6 verse #45 to verse #59 are the teaching of God! Believing these words of God means we REMAIN in the Holy Body of Jesus!

 

[Deeje]

What a poor excuse for remaining in fear of knowledge. Your way of thinking is the box that stunts growth.

Fear of knowledge? Where do you see a fear of knowledge? I said it was the immoral atmosphere at college campuses that posed a problem for Christians. Our education is obtained through other avenues. Our spiritual growth is more important to us than the growth of our bank account. A modest lifestyle with a modest income is enough for us....its called contentment. (1 Timothy 6:6-10) Why do we need more? Are the highly educated and materially rich somehow happier than those who are less educated but spiritually rich? (1 John 2:15-16)

And you don't find that position to be a bit hypocritical? Unless of course you never use the services of doctors, dentists and other professionals. Apparently, you consider these to be equivalent to the 'tax collectors'.

How do you jump to these silly conclusions? Do these people have to be Christians for us to use their services? Don’t we share our work places with people from all walks of life? The Bible teaches us to choose our associates wisely, so that bad influences will not separate us from the standards that God promotes. (1 Corinthians 15:33; 2 Peter 2:20-22)

Associating with the wrong people can have disastrous consequences as the nation of Israel found out. (Psalm 106:35-39) We don’t have to isolate ourselves, but just watch who we hang around with. (Proverbs 13:20) It was the Pharisees who had a problem with "tax collectors and sinners" avoiding all contact with such, but Jesus appealed to these ones to change their ways, knowing that they were "lost sheep".

With all his human weaknesses.

Yes, he was a sinner like we all are. Jesus saw past his weaknesses to his strengths.

You don't recognize sarcasm?

I recognize the need for it when losing an argument....

You are trying to confine catholic to the Roman Church, catholic as used in the NT refers to the 'whole' or 'universal'.
Acts 9:31 (Greek Bible), “ai men oun ekklēsiai kath olēs tēs ioudaias kai galilaias kai samareias eichon eirēnēn oikodomoumenai kai poreuomenai tō phobō tou kuriou kai tē paraklēsei tou agiou pneumatos eplēthunonto” EKKLESIA KATH’OLES.

What "Greek" translation is that exactly? Please identify it.

OK...lets see what this verse says in the English translations....

NASB..."So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase."

RSVCE..." So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samar′ia had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied."

Mounce Greek Interlinear..."31 So oun the ho church ekklēsia throughout kata all holos · ho Judea Ioudaia and kai Galilee Galilaia and kai Samaria Samareia had echō peace eirēnē; being built oikodomeō up , and kai walking poreuō in the ho fear phobos of the ho Lord kyrios and kai in the ho comfort paraklēsis of the ho Holy hagios Spirit pneuma, it increased plēthunō in number .

What do you see there? No "EKKLESIA KATH’OLES....

The term “Catholic”, derived from the Greek word καθολικός (katholikos), which means “universal” or “general”, was also used to describe the Church in the early 2nd century. The term katholikos is equivalent to καθόλου (katholou), a contraction of the phrase καθ’ ὅλου (kath’ holou) meaning “according to the whole”. Thus the full name Catholic Church roughly means “universal” or “whole” church,

If you say so....there are no Catholics in the Bible. A "Universal" church accommodated Constantine's agenda to unite his divided empire. One church for everyone that catered to all of them.....but did not remain "Christian" in any way....it fused paganism with a thin veneer of Christian terminology.

Acts 9:3l RSV: So the Church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied.

Yep, and not one of them was Catholic.....they were "Christians"...there is a big difference. The foretold apostasy was already rearing its ugly head at the end of the first century. Once the apostles passed away, there was nothing to restrain the departure of those who wanted to take Christianity down a wrong path. The Catholic church does not resemble first century Christianity in any manner, shape or form.

3650 hólos (a primitive adjective and the root of the English term “whole”) – properly, wholly, where all the parts are present and working as a whole – i.e. as the total, which is greater than the mere sum of the parts. This factor is especially significant in metaphorical contexts or those focusing on the spiritual plane. . . . .
The Catholic Church does not refer only to the Church of Rome.

You seem to connect the Catholic church (Roman or otherwise) to the one Christ began....I see no connection at all. All I see is deviation and adoptions of all manner of things that Christ never taught. I see a corrupt church that Jesus would never have supported or recognized.

What’s interesting about ὅλος vs ὅλη is that “ὅλη” is feminine whereas ὅλος is masculine. Notice later on in Acts 15:22, and in other areas, the feminine is used, because it refers to the whole Church, which is the Bride of Christ. This usage holds true in many examples to the believer and the Church, for Christ is a non-sexual model of a Husband.

Which obviously fits in with Catholic tradition concerning the "marriage" of nuns to the "church". Where will I find nuns and monks in original Christianity?
Where will I find support in the scriptures for the perpetual virginity of Mary, making her marriage to Joseph a sham? They had other children at least 6 of them.

Were any of the apostles, including Peter, seeking to live in a gold inlaid palace with servants and people lined up to kiss their ring and treat them like pop stars? Seriously...? What is Christianity to a Catholic?

Jesus is wholly human, not a god-man, like us in all ways except sin.
"For love of us he has not refused to descend to such a low position as to bear all that belongs to out nature, included in which is ignorance'

So the trinity of the Catholic church is not the same trinity as the one all the other "Christian" denominations believe in?
Who is "God the Son" then? Who is "God the Holy Ghost"?....neither exist in scripture.

'The kingdom of God is upon you'. it is now, not yet complete. Maybe it speaks of transformation, 'on earth as it is in heaven', and not destruction.

How do you correlate that with Daniel 2:44 where the Kingdom of God was going to sweep in and crush all other world powers out of existence and replace them? Daniel's prophesies were written 500 years before Jesus even came to the earth as a human, and Daniel was told to seal up the book for "the time of the end"......his prophesies indicate that the present world rulers are the last ones in power before the Kingdom "comes".

We believe that we are staring down the barrel of the end times right now.

 

[pearl]

Our spiritual growth is more important to us than the growth of our bank account.

Why do you insist that knowledge equals money. A thirst for knowledge is not always driven for the sake of money. A fear of higher knowledge betrays having little trust that ones faith will endure if exposed to a world of ideas.

Associating with the wrong people

And who are these wrong people? We are called to 'spread the Good News, the Gospel , I do not recall a mission to only the 'right' people. but to preach the Gospel to the 'four corners of the world', and when necessary, use words! You may find a Catholic or those of many religions who do not memorize, or keep a handy playlist against those of another faith, but are firm believers in the words of our Lord;
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’* Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,* Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Yep, and not one of them was Catholic

Ecclesia = church=universal=catholic, yet you insist it refers to the Roman Church.
Why is it that you never quote from the Gospel of Thomas, or of Mary, or of Philip, or the writings of the early church fathers? Because the Bible you do quote from is given to you by the Catholic Church.

Who is "God the Son" then? Who is "God the Holy Ghost"?....neither exist in scripture.

Matthew, 'Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I will no longer engage with you since you have deteriorated this thread into nothing more than the typical Catholic bashing.

 

[Dogknox20]

If you say so....there are no Catholics in the Bible. A "Universal" church accommodated Constantine's agenda to unite his divided empire. One church for everyone that catered to all of them.....but did not remain "Christian" in any way....it fused paganism with a thin veneer of Christian terminology.

Yep, and not one of them was Catholic.....they were "Christians"...there is a big difference. The foretold apostasy was already rearing its ugly head at the end of the first century. Once the apostles passed away, there was nothing to restrain the departure of those who wanted to take Christianity down a wrong path. The Catholic church does not resemble first century Christianity in any manner, shape or form.

You seem to connect the Catholic church (Roman or otherwise) to the one Christ began....I see no connection at all. All I see is deviation and adoptions of all manner of things that Christ never taught. I see a corrupt church that Jesus would never have supported or recognized.

I reply: with the early Church fathers... They had AUTHORITY to teach! Ignatius of Antioch “Now, therefore, it has been my privilege to see you in the person of your God-inspired bishop, Damas; and in the persons of your worthy presbyters, Bassus and Apollonius; and my fellow-servant, the deacon, Zotion. What a delight is his company! For he is subject to the bishop as to the grace of God, and to the presbytery as to the law of Jesus Christ” (Letter to the Magnesians 2 [A.D. 110]).

“Take care to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishop presiding in the place of God, and with the presbyters in the place of the council of the apostles, and with the deacons, who are most dear to me, entrusted with the business of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father from the beginning and is at last made manifest” (ibid., 6:1).

“Take care, therefore, to be confirmed in the decrees of the Lord and of the apostles, in order that in everything you do, you may prosper in body and in soul, in faith and in love, in Son and in Father and in Spirit, in beginning and in end, together with your most reverend bishop; and with that fittingly woven spiritual crown, the presbytery; and with the deacons, men of God” (ibid., 13:1–2).

“It is necessary, therefore—and such is your practice that you do nothing without the bishop, and that you be subject also to the presbytery, as to the apostles of Jesus Christ our hope, in whom we shall be found, if we live in him. It is necessary also that the deacons, the dispensers of the mysteries [sacraments] of Jesus Christ, be in every way pleasing to all men” (Letter to the Trallians 2:1–3 [A.D. 110]).

The early Church fathers... Baptized in the name of God!
The Didache
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

The early Church fathers... Accepted the AUTHORITY of the Pope!
Clement of Alexandria
“[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? ‘Behold, we have left all and have followed you’ [Matt. 19:27; Mark 10:28]” (Who Is the Rich Man That Is Saved? 21:3–5 [A.D. 200]).

The Church Is One
The Church Is Holy
The Church Is Catholic
The Church Is Apostolic.... Eph 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Deeje scriptures are very clear.. The Church Jesus established was built on ROCK not on sand it will never fail! To say different you MUST reject the scriptures!
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

God the father himself from Heaven kept Peter from error.. as not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. To say different you MUST once again reject the scriptures!

Deeje Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to his Holy Catholic Church to remain FOREVER with his holy Catholic Church!
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever
Deeje The Holy Spirit remains FOREVER as a teacher of the Holy Catholic Church Jesus built on ROCK.. To reject this you MUST reject the scriptures!
. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Deeje Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to his Holy Catholic Church to GUIDE her into ALL TRUTH! To reject this you MUST reject the scriptures!
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Holy Church built on ROCK.. His Church will never fail!
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Deeje To reject this you MUST reject the scriptures!

Deeje Your man made church teaches "Jesus failed"! As IF; Satan somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK Jesus' bride from him!? You said it yourself! But to believe what the Watch Tower teaches you MUST reject the scriptures!

Deeje the watch Tower teaches 144,000 made it into heaven.. All elders of the JW's! THINK.. To teach what they do you MUST Jettison all logic AND REJECT THE SCRIPTURES!
3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb.

QUESTION: How many elders of your church are NOT married?! How many of these 144,000 that went to heaven are Male virgins!? PROVING the Watch Tower is built on lies!

 

[Deeje]

Why do you insist that knowledge equals money. A thirst for knowledge is not always driven for the sake of money. A fear of higher knowledge betrays having little trust that ones faith will endure if exposed to a world of ideas.

It seems to me that you take everything I say and put your own twist to it. Who said anything about a "fear of higher knowledge"?.....You did. The right kind of knowledge is exhilarating.

Why do people generally pursue higher education? Isn't it because one can expect a good job with a high salary and a better standard of living if one has acquired some sort of degree? That does not really interest us. We are happy with a job that pays the bills and allows us time for the work Christ assigned to us. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 24:14)

We can benefit from the education of others these days just by doing research on the internet at home. There is no real need for degrees if one only wishes to obtain knowledge...is there? Its all at our fingertips.

And who are these wrong people?

Those whom the Bible considers "bad company" (1 Corinthians 15:33)..."fools" as opposed to "wise" ones. (Proverbs 13:20) We all know that our close associates can influence our own conduct...if that is the case for adults, what about teenagers? How many college students don't get up to immoral conduct.....with consistent use of drugs and alcohol?

This world has more than its fair share of bad influences, so we have to choose our associates wisely. Why is that a bad idea?

We are called to 'spread the Good News, the Gospel , I do not recall a mission to only the 'right' people. but to preach the Gospel to the 'four corners of the world', and when necessary, use words!

LOL...twisting my words again....but seriously, I don't recall a Catholic person ever coming to me with the "good news of the Kingdom" in my whole life. Why is that?

What did Paul say...?
" I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one. 16 They do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth."

We are sanctified as long as we stick to the truth of God's word...but not if we deviate from it.
We have no choice but to live in this world, (for now) but we have to be careful NOT to become part of it.....just as Jesus was no part of it. It makes a person unpopular to live according to Bible principles because true Christians should actually carry out the great commission and live their Christianity day to day. (John 15:18-21)

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’* Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,* Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Let me take a line from that scripture that you may not have noticed....
"And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me."

There are three different categories of people mentioned in this passage.....there are those who give assistance to Christ's "brothers" and those who don't....so who are Christ's "brothers"? If one does not recognize who these "brothers" are, then how can they render assistance to them? These are not just any Tom, Dick or Harry in the population who claims to be a Christian.....Jesus is a "brother" to these ones, not their "Father".

Ecclesia = church=universal=catholic, yet you insist it refers to the Roman Church.

There are no "Catholics" of any description in the Bible. The "Ecclesia" always referred to the Christian congregation as a body.....which were never "Catholic"...sorry.
Your identification as "Catholic" means what variety then?

Why is it that you never quote from the Gospel of Thomas, or of Mary, or of Philip, or the writings of the early church fathers?

These are considered apocryphal books that do not belong in the Bible canon. The Apocryphal OT writings were never included in the Jewish canon of inspired Scriptures and do not form part of it today. One of the chief external evidences against the canonicity of the Apocrypha is the fact that none of the Christian Bible writers quoted from these books.

From the second century C.E. forward there developed an immense body of writings making claim to divine inspiration and canonicity and pretending to relate to the Christian faith. Frequently referred to as the “Apocryphal New Testament,” these writings represent efforts at imitating the Gospels, Acts, letters, and the revelations contained in the canonical books of the Christian Greek Scriptures. A large number of these are known only through fragments extant or by quotations from them or allusions to them by other writers.
Funk and Wagnalls New Standard Bible Dictionary comments: “They have been the fruitful source of sacred legends and ecclesiastical traditions. It is to these books that we must look for the origin of some of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church.”

Because the Bible you do quote from is given to you by the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church was used to compile the canon that God inspired. They were the only "Christians" around at the time because they silenced anyone who disagreed with them.....or should I say tortured them to gain a confession and used that as an excuse to murder them?
None of it is a product of the Catholic church.

Matthew, 'Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is still no "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit"......the Bible only mentions "God the Father". The son is a separate entity who himself worships the Father, even in heaven. (John 17:3) The holy spirit is God's directed energy...his power sent in due measure to accomplish his will. There is no trinity in the Bible.....and there never was.

I will no longer engage with you since you have deteriorated this thread into nothing more than the typical Catholic bashing.

Your choice.....there is nothing untruthful in anything I have said...it is simply pointing out the differences between Protestant and Catholic "theology" in the OP.....since Protestantism comes in so many varieties, what is another non-Catholic point of view?

 

[Dogknox20]

It seems to me that you take everything I say and put your own twist to it. Who said anything about a "fear of higher knowledge"?.....You did. The right kind of knowledge is exhilarating.
Your choice.....there is nothing untruthful in anything I have said...it is simply pointing out the differences between Protestant and Catholic "theology" in the OP.....since Protestantism comes in so many varieties, what is another non-Catholic point of view?

Deeje it is obvious you do not read the posts sent your way...pcarl said this in his post addressed to you in #112 (above)....
"I will no longer engage with you since you have deteriorated this thread into nothing more than the typical Catholic bashing".

 

[Deeje]

Deeje it is obvious you do not read the posts sent your way...pcarl said this in his post addressed to you in #112 (above)....
"I will no longer engage with you since you have deteriorated this thread into nothing more than the typical Catholic bashing".

Thank you. I already told you that I was no longer going to join you in discussing those excuses that you kept repeating....what is the point?

 

[thomas t]

The Church Is One
The Church Is Holy
The Church Is Catholic

but not the Roman Catholic Church (RCC).
I don't like Jehova Witnesses teaching that they are purportedly the only true church.
I don't appreciate when the RCC teaches the same with regard to their church. You are not the ruler of Christianity. Jesus is.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that there is a church in Rome and everybody has to obey to them. It's completely made up.
Note, the RCC is the same church that murdered around through the ages. I don't want to be told by them that I have to join them in order for me to be a good Christian.

Thomas

 

[metis]

Nowhere in scripture does it say that there is a church in Rome and everybody has to obey to them. It's completely made up.

You might want to reread Acts and the epistles and remind yourself how the Church was set up, including their appointees.

Note, the RCC is the same church that murdered around through the ages.

Some people within the Church did this, including some leaders-- the "RCC" didn't.

I don't want to be told by them that I have to join them in order for me to be a good Christian.

No one is suggesting that you supposedly must.

 

[thomas t]

No one is suggesting that you supposedly must.

... in order to be part of a valid good Christian church?
Oh thank you. Let's wait for @Dogknox20 to reply if he does.

Some people within the Church did this, including some leaders-- the "RCC" didn't.

ah. Are you saying that the RCC did NOT murder people during inquisition?
So, let's look at the facts here, one example:

In some parts of Spain towards the end of the 14th century, there was a wave of violent anti-Judaism, encouraged by the preaching of Ferrand Martinez, Archdeacon of Écija. In the pogroms of June 1391 in Seville, hundreds of Jews were killed, and the synagogue was completely destroyed. The number of people killed was also high in other cities, such as Córdoba, Valencia, and Barcelona

from Inquisition - Wikipedia

So we see Catholics leaders doing this. The Archdéacon did not involve in this activities during his free time, I think, since it says "preaching". So he did this during his working time, I conclude.
However, the Catholic church did nothing to stop it, as I see it... so... the Catholic Church is to get the blame for it.

You might want to reread Acts and the epistles and remind yourself how the Church was set up, including their appointees.

doesn't change anything, in my view.

 

[Dogknox20]

but not the Roman Catholic Church (RCC).
I don't like Jehova Witnesses teaching that they are purportedly the only true church.
I don't appreciate when the RCC teaches the same with regard to their church. You are not the ruler of Christianity. Jesus is.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that there is a church in Rome and everybody has to obey to them. It's completely made up.
Note, the RCC is the same church that murdered around through the ages. I don't want to be told by them that I have to join them in order for me to be a good Christian.

Thomas

thomas t Good to meet you... I reply: The Holy Catholic Church was built by Jesus on ROCK not on sand it will never fail!
One Holy Catholic Apostolic.... Apostolic because it has a unbroken heritage 265 popes going all the way back to Peter the first Shepherd the Key Holder!

1. St Peter; martyr; 42-67

2. St Linus, of Tuscia (Volterra?); martyr; 67-78

3. St Anacletus I, of Rome; martyr; 78-90 (?)

4. St Clement I, of the Roman Flavian gens; martyr; 90-99 (?)

5. St Evaristus, of Greece (or of Bethlehem); martyr; 99-105 (?)

6. St Alexander I, of Rome; martyr; 105-115 (?)

7. St Sixtus I, of Rome; martyr; 115-125 (?)

8. St Telesphorus, of Greece; martyr; 125-136 (?)

9. St Iginus, of Greece; martyr; 136-140 (?)

10. St Pius I, of Italy; martyr; 140-155 (?)

11. St Anicetus, of Syria; martyr; 155-166 (?)

12. St Soter, of Campania (Fundi?);martyr; 166-175 (?)

13. St Eleutherus, of Epirus(Nicopolis?); martyr; 175-189

14. St Victor I, of Africa; martyr; 189-199

15. St Zephyrinus, of Rome; martyr; 199-217

16. St Calixtus, of Rome; martyr; 217-222

[Hippolytus, 217-235]

17. St Urban I, of Rome; martyr; 222-230

18. St Pontianus, of Rome; martyr; 21 July 230-28 Sept 235

19. St Anterus, of Greece; martyr; 21 Nov 235-3 Jan 236

20. St Fabian, of Rome; martyr; 10 Jan 236-20 Jan 250

21. St Cornelius, of Rome; martyr; March 251-June 253

[Novatian, 251-258]

22. St Lucius I, of Rome; martyr; 25 June 253-5 March 254

23. St Stephen I, of Rome; martyr; 12 May 254-2 Aug 257

24. St Sixtus II, of Greece (?); martyr; 30 Aug 257-6 Aug 258

25. St Dionysius, of Magna Graecia (?); martyr; 22 July 259-26 Dec 268

26. St Felix I, of Rome; martyr; 5 Jan 269-30 Dec 274

27. St Eutychianus, of Luni; martyr; 4 Jan 275-7 Dec 283

28. St Gaius, of Dalmatia (Salona?); martyr; 17 Dec 283-22 April 296

29. St Marcellinus, of Rome; martyr; 30 June 296-25 Oct 304

30. St Marcellus I, of Rome; martyr; 27 May 308-16 Jan 309

31. St Eusebius, of Greece; martyr; 18 April 309-17 Aug 309 or 310

32. St Melchiades or Miltiades, of Africa; martyr; 2 July 311-11 Jan 314

33. St Sylvester I, of Rome; 31 Jan 314-31 Dec 335

34. St Mark, of Rome; 18 Jan 336-7 Oct 336

35. St Julius I, of Rome; 6 Feb 337-12 April 352

36. Liberius, of Rome; 17 May 352-22 Sept 366

[St Felix II, 355-22 Nov 365]

37. St Damasus I, of Spain; 1 Oct 366-11 Dec 384

[Ursinus, 366-367]

38. St Siricius, of Rome; 15 Dec 384-26 Nov 399

39. St Anastasius I, of Rome; 27 Nov 399-19 Dec 401

40. St Innocent I, of Albano; 22 Dec 401-12 March 417

41. St Zosimus, of Greece; 18 March 417-26 Dec 418

42. St Boniface I, of Rome; 29 Dec 418-4 Sept 422

[Eulalius, 27 Dec 418-3 April 419]

43. St Caelestinus I, of Campania; 10 Sept 422-27 July 432

44. St Sixtus III, of Rome; 3 July (?) 432-19 Aug 440

45. St Leo I the Great, of Tusculum; 29 Sept 440-10 Nov 461

46. St Hilarius, of Sardinia; 19 Nov 461-29 Feb 468

47. St Simplicius, of Tivoli; 3 March 468-10 March 483

48. St Felix III (II), of Rome, of the gens Anicia; 13 March 483-1 March 492

49. St Gelasius I, of Africa; 1 March 492-21 Nov 496

50. St Anastasius II, of Rome; 24 Nov 496-19 Nov 498

51. St Symmachus, of Sardinia; 22 Nov 498-19 July 514

[Laurentius, Nov 498-505]

52. St Hormisdas, of Frosinone; 20 July 514-6 Aug 523

53. St John I, of Tusculum; martyr; 13 Aug 523-18 May 526. Died at Ravenna

54. St Felix IV (III), of Samnium (Benevento?); 12 July 526-22 Sept 530

55. Boniface II, of Rome; 22 Sept 530-7 Oct 532

[Dioscurus, 22 Sept 530-14 Oct 530]

56. John II, of Rome; 2 Jan 533-8 May 535

57. St Agapitus I, of Rome; 13 May 535-22 April 536. Died at Constantinople

58. St Silverius, of Frosinone; martyr; 8 June 536-deposed 11 March 537. Died in exile on the island of Ponza 538 (?)

59. Vigilius, of Rome; June 538 (?)-7 June 555 (but elected 29 March 537). Died at Syracuse

60. Pelagius I, of Rome; 16 April 556-4 March 561

61. John III, of Rome; 17 July 561-13 July 574
etc
etc
etc
Pope Francis today