(protestant) 2nd commandment

[Unveiled Artist]

I remember a couple years ago in a fundemental christian chat who put down catholicism said that the catholicm does not have the second commandment in its catechism and bible. I dont know who believes that here but out of all arguments against the church and misinterpretation "this" is comletely false. This not an opinion, this is a fact.

Those who agree that in the 2nd commandment is not in catholicism please consider your views with these that prove otherwise:

Catholic Bible

1. Exodus 20

2. The catechism (its in the 1st commandment)

III. "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME"

2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. It proscribes superstition and irreligion. Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion; irreligion is the vice contrary by defect to the virtue of religion.

Superstition

2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.41

Idolatry

2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47

If Catholics are worshiping idols they are breaking the commandments of scripture above and their own Church.

Sorry pet peeve. Had to get it all out. I know many believe catholics worship statues....according to the above not your opinion even bias how is that true?

You can provide scripture and catholic documentation to prove your point.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I remember a couple years ago in a fundemental christian chat who put down catholicism said that the catholicm does not have the second commandment in its catechism and bible.

That's a new one to me. I've wondered if people have thought it, given many go about god, country, and guns, but this is the first time I've actually heard of anyone believing it.
It never ceases to amaze me at some of the things we convince ourselves of.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yeah i know, right. (Which was soo not me to say). Yeah the chat manager had it an all other catholic bashing in his rules and then he says "we welcome all people. We are non denominational"

That's a new one to me. I've wondered if people have thought it, given many go about god, country, and guns, but this is the first time I've actually heard of anyone believing it.
It never ceases to amaze me at some of the things we convince ourselves of.

 

[Nada]

I remember a couple years ago in a fundemental christian chat who put down catholicism said that the catholicm does not have the second commandment in its catechism and bible. I dont know who believes that here but out of all arguments against the church and misinterpretation "this" is comletely false. This not an opinion, this is a fact.

Those who agree that in the 2nd commandment is not in catholicism please consider your views with these that prove otherwise:

Catholic Bible

1. Exodus 20

2. The catechism (its in the 1st commandment)



If Catholics are worshiping idols they are breaking the commandments of scripture above and their own Church.

Sorry pet peeve. Had to get it all out. I know many believe catholics worship statues....according to the above not your opinion even bias how is that true?

You can provide scripture and catholic documentation to prove your point.

Unfortunately it is true that they do worship statues.They pray to idols and kiss the feet of statues.The pope is seen doing this always.These inanimate objects have no life in them and do not represent God in any way.This is idol worship.Also,the ones you mention believe that Jesus is God.So,they do not recognize the Almighty God as the supreme being.Moses presented God's name to his people in Exodus.

Exodus 6:3( KING JAMES VERSION)
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Many will try to say,oh that is Jesus' name too.If this is true then why do they remove it in the 2000 version?

Now....look at the same passage in the 2000 version

King James 2000 Bible
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name the LORD was I not known to them."

Ask yourself why did they remove it?

Even the Catholic bible changed it.Douay-Rheims Bible
"That appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, by the name of God Almighty; and my name ADONAI I did not shew them.

So it is being taught that Jesus is God and that it is ok to pray to and worship statues.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Simply from what you say Catholics are disobeying their own Church. Each catholic is different. The catechism was written by a pope. All bible have exodus 20. As a catholic i never worshiped statues. Am i disobeying catholic church rules or are some people rather than the church worship statues even though their church forbids it?

Unfortunately it is true that they do worship statues.They pray to idols and kiss the feet of statues.The pope is seen doing this always.These inanimate objects have no life in them and do not represent God in any way.This is idol worship.Also,the ones you mention believe that Jesus is God.So,they do not recognize the Almighty God as the supreme being.Moses presented God's name to his people in Exodus.

Exodus 6:3( KING JAMES VERSION)
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Many will try to say,oh that is Jesus' name too.If this is true then why do they remove it in the 2000 version?

Now....look at the same passage in the 2000 version

King James 2000 Bible
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name the LORD was I not known to them."

Ask yourself why did they remove it?

Even the Catholic bible changed it.Douay-Rheims Bible
"That appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, by the name of God Almighty; and my name ADONAI I did not shew them.

So it is being taught that Jesus is God and that it is ok to pray to and worship statues.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Also how does Jesus divinity have to do with my original post?

Im pointing out from their scripture and book that the Church does not teach worshiping statues. If you can find in their scripture and documents that they do please show me. What an individual catholics does should reflect church teachings. Sometimes that is not the case unfortunetly.

Unfortunately it is true that they do worship statues.They pray to idols and kiss the feet of statues.The pope is seen doing this always.These inanimate objects have no life in them and do not represent God in any way.This is idol worship.Also,the ones you mention believe that Jesus is God.So,they do not recognize the Almighty God as the supreme being.Moses presented God's name to his people in Exodus.

Exodus 6:3( KING JAMES VERSION)
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Many will try to say,oh that is Jesus' name too.If this is true then why do they remove it in the 2000 version?

Now....look at the same passage in the 2000 version

King James 2000 Bible
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name the LORD was I not known to them."

Ask yourself why did they remove it?

Even the Catholic bible changed it.Douay-Rheims Bible
"That appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, by the name of God Almighty; and my name ADONAI I did not shew them.

So it is being taught that Jesus is God and that it is ok to pray to and worship statues.

 

[Nada]

Simply from what you say Catholics are disobeying their own Church. Each catholic is different. The catechism was written by a pope. All bible have exodus 20. As a catholic i never worshiped statues. Am i disobeying catholic church rules or are some people rather than the church worship statues even though their church forbids it?

That's the thing many do not understand.People think you have to listen to the "Church." This is an incorrect view and unbiblical.First of all...people think church means a building.It really means the people.Followers of Christ.
1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.

Philemon 1:2 also to Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier--and to the church that meets in your home:

Romans 16:5 Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

So we can clearly see that church refers to the congregation of followers and not a building.So we are not to follow a religion that claims that their church building(The Vatican) is the way to God.

We are to listen to Jesus Christ who preached the Kingdom of God.The holy scriptures is our guide book,not a building full of people claiming they represent God.

There are not to be Popes and Priest to begin with.This is unbiblical.

 

[Nada]

Also how does Jesus divinity have to do with my original post?

Im pointing out from their scripture and book that the Church does not teach worshiping statues. If you can find in their scripture and documents that they do please show me. What an individual catholics does should reflect church teachings. Sometimes that is not the case unfortunetly.

Why do you need documentation when one can clearly see with their eyes.? Jesus told his people you can tell by the fruits they bear.This is a visual observation.If people are doing the opposite of what God commands,then that shows you who is truly doing God's will.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Going back to my OP. The Church does not teach to worship statues. Please show me what they have in their bible exodus 20 and catecism is wrong and/or give me scripture or doc that reflect your view that they worship statues.

Show me in King James that exodus in the catholic bible is wrong.

That's the thing many do not understand.People think you have to listen to the "Church." This is an incorrect view and unbiblical.First of all...people think church means a building.It really means the people.Followers of Christ.
1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.

Philemon 1:2 also to Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier--and to the church that meets in your home:

Romans 16:5 Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

So we can clearly see that church refers to the congregation of followers and not a building.So we are not to follow a religion that claims that their church building(The Vatican) is the way to God.

We are to listen to Jesus Christ who preached the Kingdom of God.The holy scriptures is our guide book,not a building full of people claiming they represent God.

There are not to be Popes and Priest to begin with.This is unbiblical.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Read my Op. It has nothing to do with Jesus divinity.

I am asking to refute the verses and document i provided to prove they are disobeying their own teachings

Why do you need documentation when one can clearly see with their eyes.? Jesus told his people you can tell by the fruits they bear.This is a visual observation.If people are doing the opposite of what God commands,then that shows you who is truly doing God's will.

 

[Nada]

Going back to my OP. The Church does not teach to worship statues. Please show me what they have in their bible exodus 20 and catecism is wrong and/or give me scripture or doc that reflect your view that they worship statues.

Show me in King James that exodus in the catholic bible is wrong.

What the holy scriptures says and what is being practiced by the RCC are two different things.Yes it says not to worship statues and not to pray to saints, but that is exactly what the RCC teaches.

1 Timothy 2:5 ESV
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"
So here it is saying that you can only come to God by going through Jesus Christ.This is why we pray in the name of Jesus.It does not say anywhere that it is ok to pray to saints and ask them for their help.Praying to anything other than God is worshipping false gods.Prayer is an act of worship.People often get it confused.They will say things like,I am not praying to the saints,I'm asking them to intercede and help others.Im praying for them they say.There is nothing wrong with praying for others but only God can fill that request,not saints.And only through Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:25,26.
…25When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter raised him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am just a man."

If Peter said this,why would people think it is ok to pray to saints?

 

[Nada]

Read my Op. It has nothing to do with Jesus divinity.

I am asking to refute the verses and document i provided to prove they are disobeying their own teachings

Ok got it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Youre saying the RCC is disobeying their own teachings? Look up those verses in their bible. Its the same.

Also i have practiced what RCC teaches. They have never taught me to pray to statues. I never have. Read what the Church teachings are. The RCC should reflect church teachings...if they do not they are not roman catholic.

What the holy scriptures says and what is being practiced by the RCC are two different things.Yes it says not to worship statues and not to pray to saints, but that is exactly what the RCC teaches.

1 Timothy 2:5 ESV
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"
So here it is saying that you can only come to God by going through Jesus Christ.This is why we pray in the name of Jesus.It does not say anywhere that it is ok to pray to saints and ask them for their help.Praying to anything other than God is worshipping false gods.Prayer is an act of worship.People often get it confused.They will say things like,I am not praying to the saints,I'm asking them to intercede and help others.Im praying for them they say.There is nothing wrong with praying for others but only God can fill that request,not saints.And only through Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:25,26.
…25When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter raised him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am just a man."

If Peter said this,why would people think it is ok to pray to saints?

 

[lovemuffin]

Catholics don't worship statues or pray to saints. They venerate statues and ask the saints to pray for them. As far as I know, the objections are that, despite what catholics (or orthodox) think they are doing, what they are really doing is worshipping and praying to, but given the nature of these things, the self-understanding of those engaged in the practices seems salient.

Most of the theology that underlies these practices has to do with giving particular importance to the physicality of the Incarnation, which of course is also tied up fairly closely with trinitarian belief, which is also part of the disagreement. But leaving that aside as much as possible, catholic (and orthodox) tradition takes seriously the physicality of religion, because Jesus is fully human, the body is a temple of God, resurrection is of the body, and etc.

The main failure of the criticism is that it's not reasonable to try to understand the symbology of religious practice outside of that tradition, and say well this is what you're really doing.

 

[Nada]

Youre saying the RCC is disobeying their own teachings? Look up those verses in their bible. Its the same.

Simply put.Yes.It is a distorted view.Many do not pray read and study the holy scriptures.They have been taught that the word of the Vatican is pretty much all that they need to know.It is traditional thinking.Man made beliefs.It is so obvious its amazing to me how people cannot see this.Jesus was a modest poor man who loved the poor and fed the homeless.He did not walk around dressed in long robes with a royal scepter in his hand wanting people to kiss his hand.Jesus did not collect art and have riches piled up in a vault.He did not live a lavish lifestyle.The ones who lived like this were the Pharisees.Today we have modern day Pharisees who live for riches and political power moves.

 

[Nada]

Catholics don't worship statues or pray to saints. They venerate statues and ask the saints to pray for them. As far as I know, the objections are that, despite what catholics (or orthodox) think they are doing, what they are really doing is worshipping and praying to, but given the nature of these things, the self-understanding of those engaged in the practices seems salient.

Most of the theology that underlies these practices has to do with giving particular importance to the physicality of the Incarnation, which of course is also tied up fairly closely with trinitarian belief, which is also part of the disagreement. But leaving that aside as much as possible, catholic (and orthodox) tradition takes seriously the physicality of religion, because Jesus is fully human, the body is a temple of God, resurrection is of the body, and etc.

The main failure of the criticism is that it's not reasonable to try to understand the symbology of religious practice outside of that tradition, and say well this is what you're really doing.

When one is asking something from a saint,that is called prayer.Many are confused because of distorted teachings.The holy scriptures says to pray for the saints.This was directed to the 1st century christians.It says to make supplications for them.This means to pray for them so they may complete their task here on earth.

Ephesians 6:18 ESV
Praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

So this passage is saying to pray FOR the saints and make supplications on their behalf.It says to pray and make supplications to God,not to saints.The key word is FOR.
"making supplication for all the saints,"


Romans 8:27 ESV
And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

So this is saying that prayer to God for the saints

 

[lovemuffin]

I don't think we have any disagreement about the interpretation of those passages.

 

[lovemuffin]

I suppose I'm not supposed to be posting in this thread since I'm not protestant, but it seems like more of a general religious debate. Anyway! Just going to pre-emptively apologize for being a naughty boy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Church doesnt teach that (at least now). Years ago catholics could not read their own bibles "now" they can. No parish i went to disagreed with my reading a bible.

The problem is that protestants are looking at the former teachings of the church not written ones like i posted but oral. I can see why they said not to read their bibles, the nature of the eucharist, and the recently placed doc of Mary's assension and holy nature is wrong.

My point was specific: The Church never taught people to worship statues. If peole do so they are not practicing church "and" scripture teachings.

What I find is that some "people" idolize the pope, mary, and so forth.

Using the people to determine catholic beliefs is like my listening to someoone who believes in predestination and applying it to a christians and defining it as a christian core belief.

If you want to prove the RCC is wrong youd have to go by their bible and catchism not what you see on tv or read in a history book.

I considered myself catholic and i never worshiped mary, statues, and all the mess protestants talk about. So am I catholic?

Simply put.Yes.It is a distorted view.Many do not pray read and study the holy scriptures.They have been taught that the word of the Vatican is pretty much all that they need to know.It is traditional thinking.Man made beliefs.It is so obvious its amazing to me how people cannot see this.Jesus was a modest poor man who loved the poor and fed the homeless.He did not walk around dressed in long robes with a royal scepter in his hand wanting people to kiss his hand.Jesus did not collect art and have riches piled up in a vault.He did not live a lavish lifestyle.The ones who lived like this were the Pharisees.Today we have modern day Pharisees who live for riches and political power moves.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We need some fresh opinions lol. How do you feel about the op?

I suppose I'm not supposed to be posting in this thread since I'm not protestant, but it seems like more of a general religious debate. Anyway! Just going to pre-emptively apologize for being a naughty boy.

Alerts dont work properly here. Is there a way i can fix this?