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Featured Pros and cons of attempts at perceiving many or all religions as pointing to the same conclusions

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by LuisDantas, Jun 29, 2016.

  1. Sees

    Sees Dragonslayer

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    I think transplanting the traditions of a culture into a vastly different one via translation is much of the problem....

    There is a lack of immersion in all the different aspects of the culture which provides for true context. The difficult and complex concepts within "religion" are hard to adopt or to give the universalism/same-ism treatment. You typically get hollow versions manipulated into matching what is easiest to digest/familiar.

    For various reasons, the majority have come to see religion/spirituality as something relatively easy to pluck out and throw on. If any differences are just deemed as more or less cosmetic, why not? :confused:



     
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  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Still, it is 'differently' ... and not 'any and all things'.
     
  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I concur, and proof can be seen by looking at various translations, in many directions. When behaviour and practices are largely ignored, scripture in and of itself doesn't quite represent it. The very idea of scripture varies widely in terms of how much a paradigm views its importance. We've seen this a lot here, and it doesn't work.
     
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  4. atanu

    atanu Member
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    I edited the post a bit.
     
  5. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Vedanta points to sleep, wherein we exist... And we exist without difference. The diversities of dream and waking are work of mind-senses. If the seeds in subconscious are sweet, the world is sweet.

    This discussion and the notion that differences are absolutely real and unsurmountable, IMO, is of mind.
     
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  6. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I agree wholeheartedly, and this is in tune with the OP I think. I don't see 'differences' as deficiencies at all. In fact the diversity is quite welcomed.
     
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  7. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I fear we may have to agree to disagree on that point.

    In a nutshell, it is much too theocentric and tends to assume a monotheistic origin and Abrahamic goals and parameters for other religions, sometimes in frank challenge to their own claims.

    As of late it really strikes me as very similar to Ahmadiyya Islam: earnest to reach constructive understandings with other religions, but somewhat delusional (far as I can see) about what that involves.

    I am willing to bet that there are lots of interesting stories about how your two faiths relate to each other. While Hinduism and Islam are almost completely at odds with each other, Ahmadiyyas and Bahais seem to be too much alike to confortably coexist.

    Both of your faiths would to well to lend a page from Hinduism about how to deal with diversity. But I fear that their way is simply too deeply at odds with your central directives - among other reasons, because there is a political authority component to them (to the best of my understanding, anyway).

    I do. But there is not much left of the concept after I do.

    A starting point to a certain goal that may or may not be desirable or reasonable.

    Myself, I think of it as a solution to a problem that is in truth a blessing.

    Thank you!

    It certainly tries very hard. I will have to ask for your understanding if I stand unconvinced that it succeeds at that, though. It seems to me that there would be discernible evidence if it did, and so far that evidence has eluded me.

    That is news to me, and a sensible thing too. Do you know if he said anything about sincerely mistaken religions as well?

    Me, truly understand your beliefs? Or anyone else's?

    Of course I don't. I do dare to try, and quite a lot at that. But let's be sensible here ... :)

    No argument from me. I quite agree.

    Of course you are. You have suffered me this long already, after all. That in and of itself says a lot!

    Quite commendable.

    A bit dicey for my tastes... but then again, I am not you.

    I would never rely so much on a God-belief, nor feel quite so drawn to the idea of unknowability. But my needs can't be expected to match yours.

    For all I know you have better tools to deal with the downsides of that model than I can conceive of. Perhaps somehow what you call God works as that what I call the Sacred and you have very good defenses against the dangers that I see in theism. How would I know?

    Indeed. I was just reminding you.
     
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  8. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Pros: I think there is only one Universal truth and so as all religions evolve, I see them merging to the one truth. I am reminded of the analogy of a mountain with many roads and starting points that are all pointed to the same summit. The places and roads may look different at their starting points. Some religions may not have evolved to the point of even realizing a single summit exists, but it is there for the pure-hearted aspirant.

    Cons: None
     
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  9. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Great topic, Luis!

    I'm going to start out by disagreeing with you! I think that the various denominations of Christianity do an exceptionally good job of acknowledging our differences and a pretty darned pathetic job of recognizing our similarities. Finding common ground takes effort; spotting differences is easy.

    I have found that people have a very easy time of reinterpreting my beliefs to make them even "more different" from those of traditional Christianity than they already are.

    But does this really have anything to do with "attempting to disregard the differences among religions"? To me, it's every bit as closely related to "attempting to disregard the similarities among religions."

    A Muslim friend of mine on another forum explained his perspective so well. His feelings as a Muslim pretty much mirror mine as a Mormon. He said:

    "If someone believes something I say, no matter how much proof I present, they are believing for the wrong reasons.

    If someone happens to agree with me, it should be because they themselves have found reason to, not because of anything I do or say.

    As each of us is accountable for our beliefs and will reap the results of them, it is essential that we our self are certain they are true. If we are going to be condemned or rewarded for what we believe, it should be for what we actually believe, not what someone thinks we should believe.

    I have neither the need nor desire to convince any one else that God(swt) exists. Each person has to find their own reason to believe or not believe.

    In my opinion the important part is that every person acknowledge responsibility for what they believe or do not believe. How they verify and what they accept as proof is individual. But, each person must be aware they them self are willing to accept the consequences of their choices.

    None of us can be complacent, we must always be seekers and to constantly refine our methods. If it is my desire to accept the teachings of Ivan Badinov as the ultimate authority of truth, I alone will be responsible for the results. It is in my own best interest to always seek verification to the best of my ability.We become sheeple when we stop questioning."
     
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  10. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Thanks!
    I don't really disagree. That was not what I had in mind when I wrote the OP, but far as I can tell you are correct here.

    Fair enough. I do however feel a need for a bit more allowance for dealing with uncertainty, even embracing it. Taking steps of faith, so to speak.
     
  11. Mauricius Modestus

    Mauricius Modestus God-Fearer
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    Aye, agreed.


    Well, Luis, what else do you expect from a monotheistic, Abrahamic faith? Though, to be fair, we are dealing with His (Bahá’u’lláh’s) perspective on the origin and purpose of religion in general, not the evaluations of each, and the only ones He knew of specifically were Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Zoroastrianism. Go figure.

    I disagree, but to each his own.

    Actually, this is something I've wanted to know, myself. Perhaps I will PM @DawudTalut about this, and we could converse more.

    Bahá’ís, we don't really possess a political core or authority, being as we are apolitical. I'm not sure about Ahmadis, though. Also, what might you suggest in terms of accepting diversity? Luis, what do you believe Hinduism can show us in terms of this?
     
  12. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    In my experience, Bahais are highly organized at a municipal level and have a central authority in the Universal House of Justice. There is considerable indication of a strict delimitation between "proper" Bahais who acknowledge the UHJ's authority and covenant breakers who do not, IIRC.
     
  13. serp777

    serp777 Well-Known Member

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    Cons--most religions are contradictory--example polytheism vs monotheism. THe entire reason why there are multiple religions is because they're not consistent.
     
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  14. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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    Post 31
    LuisDantas said:
    I am willing to bet that there are lots of interesting stories about how your two faiths relate to each other. While Hinduism and Islam are almost completely at odds with each other, Ahmadiyyas and Bahais seem to be too much alike to confortably coexist.

    Peace be on you both.
    So "@" worked and even without a PM, here is what you asked for:

    1= Ahmadiyya Muslims believe and testify the proclamation
    La ilaha illallaho muhammad ur rasoolullah (There is none worthy of worship except Allah Muhammad is His Messenger)

    Bahais do not have it.

    2=Ahmadiyya Muslims believe Holy Quran is the last Book.

    Bahais have Kitab Aqdas as last Book.


    3= Ahmadiyya Muslim believe and act in basic Islamic creed Five daily Prayers (Salaat), Ramadahn Fasting, pay Zakat. Hajj (pilgrimage). They follow Allah and Holy Prophet Muhammad ohammad (pbuh).

    Bahais have not these things.


    4=Ahmadiyya Muslim beleive Shariah of Islam is complete.

    Bahais have their own shariat. They invalidate Islamic shariah.


    5=Ahmadiyya Muslims have has 30 or 29 days in a month, and 12 months in a year. Based on lunar calendar.

    Bahais have 19 days in a month and 19 months in a year, based on solar calendar.

    6=Ahmadiyya Muslim follow the marital relation as prescribed in the Holy Quran.

    Bahais do not follow it (best of my knowledge, correct pls it is wrong).

    7= Ahmadiyya Muslims greet others (Ahmadis or others) by saying Assalam o alaikum, as taught by Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

    Bahais greet their people by saying “Abu al-bahar”.

    8= Ahmadiyya Muslim name themselves Muslims (or Ahmadiyya Muslims, Jama'at Ahmadiyya Muslimah)

    Bahais call themselves as Bahais.


    More about Bahais in oficial Ahmadiyya Muslim website @
    https://www.alislam.org/r.php?q=bahais&sa=

    Good wishes to all human whatever their faith is.
     
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  15. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    So you have no line in the sand. Whatever version of Islam is the driving force for ISIS is heading to the same place? The evangelical right wing anti-gay anti-dharmic Christian sects are heading to the same place?
     
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  16. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Doesn't it all depend on the conclusion we're trying to reach.... Like if the religion is talking about Heaven, there is only one place or Hell the same.

    Find it ridiculous in modern scientific understanding, that we've got so many theories on something we should be trying to quantify.

    This in its self makes many religions silly, as people choose not to believe in things that exist, and then believe in things that don't.

    Personally would always like the clearest data available, and would work with others to achieve it; yet apparently that isn't what religions are about. :cry:
     
  17. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    What is it that we should be trying to quantify?
     
    #37 LuisDantas, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
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  18. Rick O'Shez

    Rick O'Shez Irishman bouncing off walls

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    Indeed, and they cannot all be correct.
     
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  19. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Luis, it's so basic. The extremely basic concept of God, for example, actually varies a ton from faith to faith. When adherents say 'God' they project their version of that onto whomever is around, reading or listening. They just assume, falsely, that the other person holds the same idea. So when someone says 'God bless you' it has no meaning whatsover to a monistic or atheistic thinker, because their concept God simply can't do that.

    Thank you for your reasoned and rather intricate exploration of this topic, not that it's likely to alter anyone's views much.
     
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  20. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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