• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Proposition 8 lawyer claims that the purpose of marriage is to promote procreation

Karl R

Active Member
Proposition 8 is being challenged on constitutional grounds. One of the news articles can be found here:
Witness: Civil unions like allowing just one bite of Twinkie - CNN.com

What caught my attention was the following excerpt:
Charles Cooper, an attorney representing Protect Marriage, the group that came up with Proposition 8, told the judge in his opening statement the purpose of marriage is to promote procreation between men and women.

I don't want children. My girlfriend doesn't want children. Neither of us has children. My girlfriend got her tubes tied at the age of 32 and went through menopause at 42. And if we ever break up, I plan to get a vascectomy before entering the dating scene again.

For those of you who oppose gay marriage because you believe as Charles Cooper does, why should my girlfriend and I have more right to marry than a homosexual couple? Do you believe that we should be banned from marrying also? Or do you believe that Charles Cooper lied to the judge in his opening statement?
 

MSizer

MSizer
I'm in the same boat as you with regards to kids. Never ever wanted them, and I'd rather end my life than have to live it with children.

Procreation was around long before marriage was. We have this little activity called sex that seems to happen all over the world no matter what religious beliefs or institutions are in place. That's a ludicrous statement.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
No its more like some people who already desire to pro-create or who already have pro-created might be inspired to marry.

People either want kids or they dont ..Getting married isnt what drives that desire.

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
And also even what about people that married and had a child or more and are done?Or are past the childberaing years.We have discussed this before.If they have already fulfflled the "purpose" of marriage what is the reason to remain married?

This mans opinion implies that my marrige has no purpose too.Im DONE procreating and so is my husband.Its insulting to many many many people hetero and gay to spew this line of crap.

Love

Dallas
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Proposition 8 is being challenged on constitutional grounds. One of the news articles can be found here:
Witness: Civil unions like allowing just one bite of Twinkie - CNN.com

What caught my attention was the following excerpt:
Charles Cooper, an attorney representing Protect Marriage, the group that came up with Proposition 8, told the judge in his opening statement the purpose of marriage is to promote procreation between men and women.

I don't want children. My girlfriend doesn't want children. Neither of us has children. My girlfriend got her tubes tied at the age of 32 and went through menopause at 42. And if we ever break up, I plan to get a vascectomy before entering the dating scene again.
I do want children, but that wording bothers me as well.

If the purpose of marriage is to promote procreation, then in any case where the state has no interest in promoting procreation (for instance, if the population growth rate hits harmful or unsustainable levels), then civil marriage loses its justification.

Not only does this argument imply that childless couples don't have a right to marriage, it implies that couples with children don't have a right to marriage in certain circumstances.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Why get married if you dont want kids or even cant have kids ...and why stay married if you already have kids and you are done is what this means.

Love

Dallas
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Why get married if you dont want kids or even cant have kids ...and why stay married if you already have kids and you are done is what this means.
I agree.

For people who claim to be "defending" the institution of marriage, they sure do demean it a lot.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Proposition 8 is being challenged on constitutional grounds. One of the news articles can be found here:
Witness: Civil unions like allowing just one bite of Twinkie - CNN.com

What caught my attention was the following excerpt:
Charles Cooper, an attorney representing Protect Marriage, the group that came up with Proposition 8, told the judge in his opening statement the purpose of marriage is to promote procreation between men and women.

I don't want children. My girlfriend doesn't want children. Neither of us has children. My girlfriend got her tubes tied at the age of 32 and went through menopause at 42. And if we ever break up, I plan to get a vascectomy before entering the dating scene again.
The claim that marriage promotes procreation doesn't mean each married person has to. Even if you're married, you're not marriage. :)

Or do you believe that Charles Cooper lied to the judge in his opening statement?
I don't think it was a lie, just a perspective.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
The claim that marriage promotes procreation doesn't mean each married person has to. Even if you're married, you're not marriage. :)


I don't think it was a lie, just a perspective.

Its not even marriage ..IMHO..its two people who are both desiring to procreate and being committed to stay together to both help rear the offspring is the benefit.But you can do that even if you arent legally married.

But the fact that I am married and want to stay married has nothign to do with wanting to "procreate".IOW my marriage is not "promoting me" to procreate.

I do not need a marriage to have a baby.I do however desire not to rear a child alone if I did have a baby.But that doenst require a "marriage".

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I don't think it was a lie, just a perspective.

But its a perspective that is being used to prove or to keep laws in place that single out only one group that cant "procreate" within the marriage .

If its the adopted belief and laws are written based on it then why only limit that law to a ban on marriage for gay people?

The procreation argument would include many many heterosexuals.It should be unconstitonal as well to allow heteros to marry if they are unable or unwilling to have children.

Its like saying only fertile men and women should be allowed to get married because their is a chance they might "procreate" because the fact they are married might "promote" that.

So then their should be a ban as well on birth control..to married couples and measures to permenently not be able to have children such as visectomy or tubal ligation as well.Not to mention abortion..Married people do get abortions.

I suppose those of us that are married and have children get a "free pass" because we already "procreated" and our marriage is based on we "fullfilled the purpose of it" and now we can remain married for the "sake of the children" or for the "secondary " purposes of marriage.Which are never mentioned by the way .

Love

Dallas
 
Last edited:

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
This should upset alot of old folks getting married.

This should insult a lot of young folks getting married..a lot of middle age folks getting married..a lot of old folks getting married..This should also insult a lot of young folks that are already married..a lot of middle aged folks that are already married..and a lot of old folks that are already married.

This should insult anyone young middle or old that wants to get married..or young middle and old that are currently married.

I can imagine a marrige proposal based on this "perspective'"..

Lets go traditional here..

The young man..on bended knee ...produces a ring ..to the young woman ..and says to her..

I would love for you to marry me so we can procreate" Will you be my co-procreator of offspring"?

And she says..

YES I have been waiting all of my life to be asked by someone who wants me to procreate with them" YES I will procreate with you!!!!!

Love

Dallas
 
Last edited:

Gunfingers

Happiness Incarnate
Is it just me, or does it seem like procreation leads to marriage more than marriage leads to procreation? :D
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Charles Cooper is amazing. He's dragged up one of the most nonsensical justificationns for opposing homosexual marriage that there is. If his position isn't laughed out of court, it will go to show the judge is brain dead.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Is it just me, or does it seem like procreation leads to marriage more than marriage leads to procreation? :D

I think more people probably get married for procreation (maybe not more but a significant percentage) because ....well because the baby is born "prematurley" 6 months after the marriage. :yes:

I think thats called a "gun shot wedding"

We have a name for that for a reason.

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Maybe I should just marry a dude and still be unable to procreate. That'll show him!

It wont show them anything.Because they dont care as long as you are a female who marries a male.They arent after you.The pro-creation argument is a way to go after the gays.Not you ..you are protected ..

Love

Dallas
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Women and Blacks did not get their voting rights state by state. If a same sex couple is legally married in one state, do they receive each others social security?
 

Karl R

Active Member
The claim that marriage promotes procreation doesn't mean each married person has to. Even if you're married, you're not marriage. :)
Following that logic, why shouldn't gays be some of the married people who aren't procreating? (Or some of the married people who are, for that matter?) Even if they're married, they're not marriage.

do you believe that Charles Cooper lied to the judge in his opening statement?
I don't think it was a lie, just a perspective.
You're saying that he's aware that it's an opinion, but he feels his opinion should be enforced as law?
 
Top