Proponent of Rational Faith

[Deeje]

BOOM! goes the dynamite...

That's just too funny. I TOLD you that your irrational thinking would lead you to make arguments of that very sort, and then you actually turned around and DID it! I love it when a plan comes together.

And yet, you are the one retreating.....got no answers huh?

There's just so much that's hilarious here... maybe some day if I get bored I'll come back and dissect it, but for now, I think we're done.

Yeah, I think we know why......Perhaps your dissecting tools need sharpening?

I heard no dynamite....just the vague sound of someone leaving by the back door....

 

[sayak83]

Deeje-ed huh? So he's a known commodity... Somebody coulda WARNED me, for Pete's sake!

Yeah, I don't know that there's much I CAN make of Revelation, because, as you pointed out, it's not really rational itself--more like a sustained dreamstate of allegory, metaphor and enigma. But it gives us fun things to think about, like the Bride of Christ, the second death, and 666, to name a few. Don't forget that whenever you hear anyone say anything like, "This is what the Bible says..." not just about Revelation, but about anything, what they are really saying is, "This is what I think the Bible says." If you have good reason to trust their opinion, then you might explore and/or adopt their perspective, but if it sounds like nonsense to you, it probably is.

And do you really think that Christianity has the image of a rational faith--at least to people who are not believers? From my experience, I would say otherwise, but I could be wrong. Or maybe you were just talking about it seeming "rational" to believers...?

Deeje will continue to write longer and longer posts with all kinds of off emojies , wandering opinions on all things in heaven and Earth, as well as a billion pics... till one gives up in sheer exhausting. She has the perseverance of a honey badger. Otherwise Deeje is a fine Aussie.
You are proposing to make Christianity into a rational faith for yourself at least. So I wondered what you make out of the parts that are non-rational. There is also a long tradition of rationalzing Christianity by Augustine and such that I would like to know more about.

Will keep track of your posts. Enjoy your stay.

 

[Axe Elf]

Deeje will continue to write longer and longer posts with all kinds of off emojies , wandering opinions on all things in heaven and Earth, as well as a billion pics... till one gives up in sheer exhausting. She has the perseverance of a honey badger.

Yeah, I noticed that was the modus operandi--just keep shoveling more and more nonsense until it's no longer worthwhile to even try to address it all--and then, as I expected, taunt the person for running away. lol

I felt like King Arthur fighting the Black Knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." The more I would slice her up, the more she would insist it 'twas but a scratch, and invite me in for more. For a while, I entertained the idea of trying to match volume for volume, but there are people here with legitimate questions and points to address, so it just doesn't make sense for me to spend an hour a day trying to educate the willfully ignorant.

You are proposing to make Christianity into a rational faith for yourself at least. So I wondered what you make out of the parts that are non-rational. There is also a long tradition of rationalzing Christianity by Augustine and such that I would like to know more about.

It's interesting that you mentioned St. Augustine, because there is a passage of his that I love. It sounds for all the world like it could have been written today, but it was actually written in 401 AD as a part of his treatise on "The Literal Meaning of Genesis."

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion."

And so it is for my "rational faith." It doesn't mean that I understand EVERYTHING--and much of the Book of Revelation is a good example--but it means that what I DO understand I have to understand in terms that do not fly in the face of demonstrable, logical principles or what we already know about the natural world through the scientific method. In that way, I would like to combat the view of Xianity as an irrational belief system, which is what I think a lot of unbelievers see it as--for the reasons Augustine outlined above. You don't have to check your brain at the door to be a Xian--in fact, I would argue that the Bible teaches against that.

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on you. Welcome.