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Prophet Mohammed in the Jewish Bible

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions DIR' started by Islam, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. Islam

    Islam Member

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    "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned." {Isaiah 29:12}

    "The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." {Hadeeth Sahih Bukhari 1:1:003}

    http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/
     
  2. Ody

    Ody Well-Known Member

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    Nevermind, it was moved. :cool:
     
  3. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Please note I had written this originally in the Biblical Debates in the topic, Mohammad (post 98). But this reply is most relevant here too.

    ---------------------------

    Here is one Muslim interpretation of Isaiah 29:12, which is quite popular among Muslims, but I found to be very weak in interpretation, and taken quite out of context.

    (Nawab had used this quote in the thread, Mohammad post 55, to indicate this referred to Muhammad, but I have seen other Muslims use this same quote, elsewhere.)

    I think that many Muslims used this quote to say that this quote identifies their prophet Muhammad, because he was illiterate.

    Now, I have a lot of problem with this interpretation: One, in which Muslims has basically ignored the surrounding passages in this chapter (29), particularly from verses 1 to 14. When you read all these verses completely, you will find that you have taken verse 12 out of context. The original meaning of verse 12 is lost, because of the way you have interpreted it.

    This argument is weak, if you read all the verses in this chapter, and you realise that it has absolutely nothing to do with a prophet who can't read.

    I can quote these passages to explain my position, but I think I will summarise most of it and quote only the vital part for understanding the verses, and leave the rest of you read entire Isaiah 29, yourself.

    From verses 1-8, God is speaking against Ariel, another name for Jerusalem, of how he will have enemies of Judah (and Israel) laid siege to the city. There would be war upon Zion.

    The important part is here:

    (Verse 12, is coloured brown, but the bold part is the text that I wanted to emphasis.)

    Why do Muslims completely ignore 9-11 and then 13-14?

    If verse 12 really applies to Muhammad, then so should 9-11 and 13-14. Then, he is only the one who can't read (verse 12), but Muhammad would also be the fool, who is drunk and stagger, without touching liquor (in verses 9-11, "...Act stupidly, and be stupified. Act blind, be blinded..."), and he doesn't understand or know how to interpret the messages before him because God will baffle him (in verses 13-14). You can't use this single verse applies to Muhammad, but not the rest.

    If you read Isaiah 1-14, then you would realise that 29:12 is less than flattery, if this is really about your prophet, especially if you take the surrounding text into consideration.

    The way I've interpreted these passages is that the Jews in Isaiah's time, will be punished for not heeding his teaching and for disobedience, by letting his enemies the people of Jerusalem, ie Mt Zion or Ariel. Verse 12, as well as 11, has to do with Jews disregarding warning, not to do with "a prophet who can't read".

    After verse 14, (verses 15-24), has to do offering hope to the Jews, despite punishing them for disregarding his warnings.

    I suggested that Muslims here to read carefully 1-14, before making sensational claim, that are not only taking the original message out of context, but also very misleading via a single quote.

    I know that you are responding only to Jewscout, The_Truth, but I hoped that you, Islam, Nawab and Mujahid Mohammed can understand why I also find your insight and interpretation in using OT, particularly in this verse, to be very weak.
     
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  4. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Hey, shouldn't this topic be in the debate section?
     
  5. Ody

    Ody Well-Known Member

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    I hate evangelism.
     
  6. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    You mean me? :(

    But I am not evangelist. Just an amateurish agnostic scholar in mythology. Religion is only a side-interest to mythology for me.

    I've never been called evangelist before. :eek:

    I would have been insulted, if I didn't find this so funny.:biglaugh:

    : hamster :
     
  7. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Does this mean that any mention of an ignorant peasant is a reference to Muhammed?
     
  8. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    No. I am saying that you can simply just quote a small snipping of passage and say that's "Muhammad" or that's "Jesus", or whatever.

    Anyone can interpret a tiny verse and give all sort of meaning to it, but that passage will lose its original meaning, if you don't take the surrounding text into consideration.

    I am suggesting that Muslims should stop quoting this or that to be prophecy of Muhammad, without giving due consideration to the rest of the text.
     
  9. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    My apologies.
    I thought I had hit the quote button.
    My question was directed at Islam, not you gnostic.
     
  10. Ody

    Ody Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't declaring you to be an Evangelist, it was a reference to the OP :p
     
  11. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    didn't moses have a prophesy about him, that is why the pharisees in jesus/john the baptist's time were looking for 3 people? the prophet, the messiah, and elijah. only 2 were revealed in jesus's time, the prophet not revealed of course being the prophet.
    and jesus reaffirmed that prophesy saying there wound be a comforter after he was gone, but that is in the new testament.

    peace
     
  12. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    muslims think so

    jews do not

    and frankly the site given in the OP is a bunch of garbage anyways i can't believe a muslim would actually post from a cite that vilifies and demonizes one of it's own prophets, Moses.
     
  13. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    are most jews still waiting for the 'prophet like unto moses'?
    sorry if this is off topic, but the thread seems to be stagnating and i only have this one question at this time.
    thanks in advance for your reply.

    peace
     
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