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Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Cartoonist4X, Nov 3, 2005.

  1. Cartoonist4X

    Cartoonist4X New Member

    Oct 25, 2005
    As I've mentioned in my profile and intro thread, I love studying biblical prophecy, and the various approaches to the subject within the Church. I've wanted to study prophecy's outside of Christianity for quite some time now. As far as I know, nearly every religion fortells some day when the universe will be changed forever. So what are your prophetic beliefs? Christians and non-Chistians alike are welcome to respond.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2004
    my beliefs as one of Jehovahs witness are all centered around the theme of the bible prophecy about world rulership in daniel 2;44 .this is the whole theme of the bible its to do with Gods sovereignty and world rulership ,the bible from Genesis to revelation is about Gods kingdom goverment.
    And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite Daniel 2;44

  3. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    Prophecy is my favorite subject too. Mainly modern day prophecy. I like to look at Bible prophecy too.


    Check out this site. Kim Clement I believe is a true modern day Prophet. He is from South Africa.
  4. Cartoonist4X

    Cartoonist4X New Member

    Oct 25, 2005
    Expanding upon this, I believe the kingdom foretold by Daniel was the Church. As far as my understanding, Babylon was the kingdom of gold, Persia was the kingdom of silver, Greece was the kingdom of brass, the Roman Republic was the kingdom of iron, and the Roman Empire was the kingdom of iron mixed with clay. Christ established the Church in the days of the Roman Empire, and that's why I believe it's the indestructable kingdom the Jewes were promised.
  5. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Greetings, greetings! :)

    I'm a Baha'i, and we have plenty of beliefs about prophecies--Biblical and other--and how they've been fulfilled!

    For starters, you may find this site of considerable interest as it gives a good overview:


    And for additional detail, you can search these websites:

    - www.bahai-library.org
    - www.reference.bahai.org
    - www.bahaistudy.org

    for various books, in particular Apocalypse Unsealed and I, Daniel, both of which are by Robert Riggs.

    Good hunting! :)

  6. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    All the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of Christ.

    Link to Daniel 2: 26-36
  7. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    Sorry bad link. Here it is again


    I think that the kingdoms in this image will fall into Christ's hands, starting with the head of gold (Babylon or Iraq). This is happening right now. All other kindoms will wall in the order of head to toe in the image mentioned in Daniel. Babylon will fall first, then Persia, then Greece, etc.
  8. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

    Oct 14, 2005
    Babylon isn't exactly a kingdom anymore. Besides, those empires already fell.

    God bless.
  9. Cartoonist4X

    Cartoonist4X New Member

    Oct 25, 2005
  10. Cartoonist4X

    Cartoonist4X New Member

    Oct 25, 2005
    Any beliefs on prophetic issues appart from the Kingdom of Heaven? I know it's all related, but I'd still like to branch this thread off into more specific discussions.
  11. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Greetings again! :)

    Many, many of them!

    Please see the Web site I mentioned in posting #5 for details.


  12. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2004
    Hi, i find the prophecies of daniel really thrilling for this time of the end , we are on the thresh hold of a thing that has never happened before ,all manmade rulerships will be crushed and put out of the way so that Gods rulership can rule without man putting his foot in it and messing it up , i also believe that the head of gold was Babylonia from 607B,C,E, The silver arms were Medo-persia from 539 B,C,E, and the copper belly was Greece from 331 B,C,E, and the legs of iron was Rome from 30,B,C. E But i also believe that the legs of iron are part of our day , the Anglo-American world power from 1763 C.E. right down to the politically divided world in the time of the end . of the feet of iron and clay .just as iron and clay do not mix ,so politically dividedness do not mix .so it is mybelief that we are now in the time of the end and Gods goverment is waiting to take action and get rid of the manmade goverments while they are still alive and active.( Daniel 2 ;31-45)all human goverments will be obliterated at the( war of the great day of Jehovah)revelation16;14, 16
  13. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Sep 27, 2004
    I take it this thread is linked only to prophecies in Religion, since this thread is in 'Comparative Religion'.

    One area no one has yet mentioned is the study and inclusion of the Tarot and Numerology within the umbrella of the Kabbalah.

    Both can be used to make prophecies. One of the problems I have noted with prophecies in general is the all too easy retrospective correlation of events to prophecies. Nostradamus immediately comes to mind, as do the cheap newspaper versions of Astrology.

    If I said,"Halcyon, I prophecy that you will catch a cold within the next year.", by sheer happenstance, the chances are that I will be proved right.;)
  14. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Greetings, Cartoonist! :)

    As to the prophecies of the kingdoms of gold, iron, etc. in Daniel, I'll take the liberty of posting a chapter from an online book that I hope you'll find of interest. It's from "I, Daniel," and discusses the prophecies of Daniel in depth! You can find it at www.bahai-library.org (under the Books heading) among other places, and the author has placed the entire thing into the public domain.

    I'll split the text so as not to choke the system....


    _ _ _ _ _

    excerpt from​
    I, Daniel
    by Robert Riggs​

    -----------------------------------------------Start of page 13--

    Chapter One


    In Chapter 2 of Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar II, the king of Chaldea

    (neo-Babylonia), has a dream and challenges his 'wise men:

    magicians, exorcists, sorcerers, and Chaldeans' both to describe

    and interpret his dream or to suffer death. None of the wise men

    summoned before the king were able to meet the challenge, and

    Nebuchadnezzar, in a fit of rage, ordered the execution of all

    the wise men of Babylon. Daniel, being a 'wise man,' was among

    those threatened with execution. But with the help of God,

    Daniel was able to reveal the king's dream, was thereby to save

    the lives of his colleagues and to win other favors.

    Nebuchadnezzar's dream was of an image, 'huge and dazzling, . . .

    fearful to behold':

    Daniel 2

    32 The head of the image was of fine gold, its

    breasts and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of


    33 Its legs of iron, its feet part iron and part


    34 While (Nebuchadnezzar) looked, a stone was hewn

    from a mountain, not by human hands; it struck the

    image on its feet of part iron and part clay and

    shattered them.

    35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver,

    and the gold, were all shattered into fragments and

    were swept away like chaff before the wind from a

    threshing floor in summer, until no trace of them

    remained. But the stone which struck the image grew

    into a great mountain filling the whole earth.

    In verse 28, Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar that the dream reveals

    what is to be at the 'end of the age.' In later verses, Daniel

    interprets the dream as four 'kingdoms,' the kingdom of gold

    referring to that of Nebuchadnezzar himself; the silver kingdom

    would replace Nebuchadnezzar's but would be inferior to his; the

    third or bronze kingdom would have sovereignty 'over the whole


    Still later, the fourth kingdom would be as 'strong as iron,'

    breaking and shattering the whole earth. But the kingdom of

    'iron mixed with clay' would be a divided kingdom, partly strong

    and partly brittle. The 'stone hewn from a mountain, not by

    -----------------------------------------------Start of page 14--

    human hands' refers to a final kingdom to be established by God

    that would shatter all the other kingdoms, while it shall itself,

    endure forever.

    It is interesting that Nebuchadnezzar's dream was delivered in

    the metaphor of the traditional four "eras" of man: gold,

    silver, bronze, and iron, a canon held by various philosophers

    and theologians of antiquity. In Hebrew mystical terminology, a

    "day of creation," a "Lord's Day," "era," or a "world" referred

    to phases of progressive revelation. The succession of Days

    or eras represents different cultures with different customs and

    religions, what today's historians would call civilizations.

    There is also an astrological connotation of an "age," related to

    the gradual shifting of the stellar constellations of the zodiac

    throughout the course of millenia, called the procession of the

    equinoxes by astronomers. Daniel lived at a time when the sun was

    entering the constellation Virgo at the Fall equinox; that is,

    they were entering the astrological age of Virgo-Pisces. Today,

    we are entering the succeeding astrological age of Leo-Aquarius.

    Thus, in astrological terms, our own time is the "end of the

    age." This sometimes bewildering subject is discussed at length

    by de Santillana in _Hamlet's Mill_.

    The metals have qualities descriptive of the eras or

    civilizations: Gold is the most precious metal, brilliant and

    desirable for its symbolic or "spiritual" attributes. Silver is

    also precious but less so, and less desired for its spiritual

    attributes. Bronze is a strong, blended metal, less desired than

    either silver or gold, but an important metal of war and

    commerce. Finally, iron is the strongest of metals, the metal of

    the sword, least desired of the four for its symbolic or

    spiritual attributes.

    We can, indeed, identify four civilizations in Chaldea, beginning

    with Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom, sixth century BC. Chaldea was the

    heir and participant in the civilization of Mesopotamia, the

    primal region of Chaldaea. To Chaldaea, Sumer, Assyria, and old

    Babylonia we owe the invention of the first practical system of

    writing that eventually led to our modern alphabet, the wheel,

    origins of scientific mathematics and astronomy (via the

    pseudoscience of astrology), the idea of a social system based

    upon a written code of law, and an elected bicameral legislative

    system of government.

    The religion of Chaldaea had its beginnings in remote antiquity,

    perhaps more than five thousand years ago. It involved a rich

    complex of ritual and myth that has profoundly affected the

  15. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2005

    -----------------------------------------------Start of page 15--

    religions of the west--especially Judaism and Christianity. The

    Book of Genesis has many parallels in Chaldaean literature--the

    Creation story, Paradise, the Flood, the Cain-Abel rivalry, the

    Babel of Tongues. So, too, does the concept of a personal God,

    the concept that man was created primarily to serve God, and the

    concept that God's creative power is in His Word. From the

    Babylonian Captivity, the Jews acquired chants, such as the Kol

    Nidre, that are still used today. The Christians acquired, among

    other things, the rite of Baptism.

    Nebuchadnezzar's capital, Babylon, was the greatest and most

    impressive city on earth, with massive walls, imposing temples,

    and soaring towers. Some historians believe one of these soaring

    towers, completed by Nebuchadnezzar, the three-hundred-foot-high

    ziggurat of Etemananki, to be the fabulous "Tower of Babel" that

    has inspired poets, artists, and mystics for millenia. Another

    architectural triumph of Nebuchadnezzar was the "hanging

    gardens," considered to be one of the seven wonders of the

    ancient world. Babylon was visited by the Greek historian

    Herodotus in the fifth century BC, who described it as a city

    "with such magnificence that none other can approach it." The

    defensive towers that punctuated the walls of Babylon were so

    broad across the top that there was "room for a four-horse

    chariot to turn."

    The golden era of Chaldaea was short lived. The rulers of

    Chaldaea who followed Nebuchadnezzar were weak and vacillating.

    The last king, Nabonidus, engrossed in antiquarian researches,

    incurred the wrath of many of his compatriots by tampering with

    established religious beliefs and customs. His weakened kingdom

    was easily conquered by the brilliant warrior-statesman Cyrus the

    Great of Media-Persia in 539 BC, who had a well-deserved

    reputation for respecting the traditions of those he conquered.

    We identify the Medeo-Persian period of Chaldaea as its silver

    era. The religion of Cyrus was Zoroastrianism, and while Cyrus

    was scrupulous in preserving the religious traditions of

    Chaldaea, it was inevitable that Zoroastrianism would make

    inroads into the region. It was claimed by many scholars that

    some of the beliefs of Zoroastrianism have also made their way

    into Judaism and Christianity.

    While much of its capital Babylon was destroyed by Cyrus, it

    retained its identity as a great city as confirmed by Herodotus

    and others of the time. Nevertheless, Chaldaean culture was on

    the decline. An insurrection by Babylon in 521 BC led to the

    destruction of the walls of Babylon by Darius, and, by the

  16. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2005

    -----------------------------------------------Start of page 16--

    fourth century BC, the cultural identity of Chaldaea was altered


    The Medeo-Persian period of Chaldaea was disrupted by the

    conquests of Alexander the Great in 331 BC, the Macedonian-Greek

    conqueror of the known world whom we will meet again in another

    chapter. By Alexander's time, Babylon had become the winter

    capital of the Medeo-Persian kings, less opulent than the

    ceremonial capital of Perseopolis and largely in ruins. In fact,

    Alexander had intended to rebuild the great ziggurat of

    Babylon[/Etemananki] as a symbol of his conquest, but the task

    proved to be too difficult and the project was abandoned.

    Chaldaea under Alexander and his Seleucid successors continued

    its decline.

    The Seleucids, too, soon went into decline. They withdrew from

    much of Chaldaea and were, in turn, conquered by Rome. Chaldaea

    then became a region of contention between the Roman Empire and a

    revived Persian empire under the Parthians and the Sassanians.

    Chaldaea was eventually recovered by Persia but continued its

    cultural decline. Throughout this chaotic period, Chaldaea

    retained a large population, canals and dykes were kept in

    repair, and commerce and architecture flourished. But in spite

    of the tenacious economic vitality of the region, the reins of

    government were held by the "vilest tyranny of sots, drunkards,

    tyrants, lunatics, savages, and abandoned women. . ."

    The Hellenistic period of Chaldaea, initiated by Alexander, was

    continued by his Seleucid heirs and, intermittently, by Rome. We

    identify the Hellenistic period as the bronze era of

    Nebuchadnezzar's dream, covering a period of roughly six hundred

    years, from about 331 BC until about 363 AD..

    The culture and belief system of Hellenism had its impact on the

    entire region conquered by Alexander and his Hellenistic

    successors. The pagan religion of the Hellenistic civilization

    persisted for many centuries, even after Christianity had become

    the official religion of the Roman empire in the fourth century

    AD. And while it can be argued that Roman Christianity made some

    inroads into parts of Chaldaea, the long-term effects were

    largely inconsequential.

    The iron era of Chaldaea was ushered in by the Islamic conquests

    of the Seventh Century AD. The invincible Arabian warriors swept

    over the known world like a "plague of locusts." Most of

    Chaldaea was in the hands of the Muslim Caliphate by 633.

    Jerusalem fell in 637, and by 644 most of Persia and its great

    horde of treasures had been taken.

    -----------------------------------------------Start of page 17--

    But the Caliphate (Successorship) of Muhammad contained a fatal

    flaw: there was no written document defining the Islamic

    Successorship, only a deathbed statement by Muhammad declaring

    the young and inexperienced 'Ali to be his Caliph. The result

    was a permanent and bitter split between the two major factions

    of Islam--the Sunni and the Shi'ih--that has persisted to this

    day. The Sunni faction has promoted a Caliphate based on

    apparent capability and experience; the Shi'ih faction has

    promoted a Caliphate based on 'Ali's descendants--the Imamate.

    Thus the Muslim empire proved to be 'brittle," like 'iron mixed

    with clay.' By the end of Caliph Harun ar-Rashid's reign in 809

    AD, the Muslim empire had passed its zenith and had broken into


    Under early Islam, the region of old Chaldaea had a resurgence of

    prosperity reminiscent of the era of Alexander's empire. The

    city of Babylon continued to decay and became a ruin, but the

    capital of the Muslim empire was placed in the region of

    Chaldaea, briefly at Damascus and finally at Baghdad--not far

    from the ruins of Babylon.

    During the reign of the 'fourth kingdom' and as the iron era

    draws to a close in Daniel's interpretation, the final 'kingdom'

    of divine origin is represented by a 'stone hewn from a

    mountain.' A mountain has often represented a religion in sacred

    literature, while a stone may represent Truth. In ancient times,

    and even in some areas of today's world, "stones from heaven"

    (meteorites) have become objects of reverence. The Ka'bih at

    Mecca still contains such a stone which was revered even before

    Muhammad's time.

    The symbol is appropriate and describes the Baha'i revelation

    (stone) that was hewn from the Faith (mountain) of the Bab. The

    stone struck the weakest foot of the Muslim world--the iron mixed

    with clay--that symbolizes the Shi'ih tradition centered in

    modern Iran. Daniel goes on to prophesy that this stone will,

    itself, become a great mountain that will shatter all the other

    'kingdoms' and will endure 'forever.' The meaning is clear: the

    Baha'i Faith will inevitably become a great religion that will

    transcend all others, both in spiritual power and in duration.
  17. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Apr 10, 2005
    LDS Christian
    I've got to go along with Shaggy on this. They've already fallen.
  18. Solon

    Solon Active Member

    Sep 16, 2005
    Well, if any of that comes to pass, I'll eat my virtual hat. I see a lot of spin, but no substance. There is no Babylon these days, and the Babylon of Revelations is the City Of Rome. Some have tried to equate Rome today, with either the papacy, and or the Treaty of Rome (EEU), but it's all speculation.
    The places written about in those days are long gone, and what Greece has to do with anything, is beyond me.

    The only prophecy which stands up, is that made after the event...
  19. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

    Nov 16, 2005
    Has anyone looked at the dates things happened and when the texts were written? That could explain many of the prophecies in those books. Plus, isnt the eventual distruction of a building inevitable? And prophacies are vague and could be based on events which happened after the fact...
    i'm probably wrong, yall can call me on it....
  20. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Greetings, Gn!


    In fact, there are a bunch of Biblical time prophecies that yield specific years. And more: the SAME year calculated from two completely different calendars!

    So when looked at in detail in an unbiased fashion, they aren't vague at all!

    Nor are they ex post facto, having been in existence for over 500 years before some of the prophesied events, and over 2,000 years before other ones!

    And I humbly suggest that all this is well worth checking out, with the sole proviso that you have to do so with an open mind and without prejudice ("pre-judgement").

    Regards, :)