Prophecies Jesus failed to fulfill?

[Spiderman]

This might be for @Rival , because she produced a list long ago, that was closest to what I am looking for, basically a list of prophecies of the Messiah that Jesus did not fulfill.

World peace and the political office was definitely two, but I'm looking for quotes and verse numbers please.

Also, there is more than one Messiah, because Scripture calls Cyrus the great the "anointed one, the Messiah", he ended Babylonian captivity, and built the temple.

Also, prophecies about the Messiah not damaging a bruised reed, turning the other cheek, being a pacifist, quiet lamb lead to slaughter, contradict other prophecies about the Messiah, that it actually isn't even possible for the prophecies to all be talking about the same person.

Last I read, a contemporary rabbi said there would be a warrior Messiah like Samson, from Dan, and another, the son of David, from Judah, which is why Dan and Judah were called Lions, the two built the temple and tabernacle.

Any feedback you have is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Rival]

The spoiler on post 180 is a good start Christians and Jews Mostly: Messiah | Page 9 | Religious Forums

 

[Brickjectivity]

Since we are in Scriptural Debates: Scripturally speaking he isn't dead, so he hasn't failed. To fail he'd have to be dead.

 

[Wildswanderer]

This might be for @Rival , because she produced a list long ago, that was closest to what I am looking for, basically a list of prophecies of the Messiah that Jesus did not fulfill.

World peace and the political office was definitely two, but I'm looking for quotes and verse numbers please.

Also, there is more than one Messiah, because Scripture calls Cyrus the great the "anointed one, the Messiah", he ended Babylonian captivity, and built the temple.

Also, prophecies about the Messiah not damaging a bruised reed, turning the other cheek, being a pacifist, quiet lamb lead to slaughter, contradict other prophecies about the Messiah, that it actually isn't even possible for the prophecies to all be talking about the same person.

Last I read, a contemporary rabbi said there would be a warrior Messiah like Samson, from Dan, and another, the son of David, from Judah, which is why Dan and Judah were called Lions, the two built the temple and tabernacle.

Any feedback you have is appreciated. Thank you.

You mean the ones he hasn't fulfilled yet?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You mean the ones he hasn't fulfilled yet?

Yes, like the one where he said that he would be back before all of the disciples had passed away.

 

[Rival]

You mean the ones he hasn't fulfilled yet?

Show us where the second coming is in the Hebrew Scriptures then you might have a point.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Show us where the second coming is in the Hebrew Scriptures then you might have a point.

Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.” Psalm 50:3-5.

“For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” Isaiah 66:15,16.

 

[Rival]

Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.” Psalm 50:3-5.

This is quite vague.

“For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” Isaiah 66:15,16.

This is messianic and still nowhere mentions a second coming.

 

[Wildswanderer]

This is messianic and still nowhere mentions a second coming.

I guess that depends on your interpretation.. it would certainly be fulfilled in the second coming.

 

[Rival]

I guess that depends on your interpretation.. it would certainly be fulfilled in the second coming.

The things Christians believe happen at the second coming are meant to happen the first time, imo. There's no sign of a second coming unless one already believes in Jesus. What Christians term 'second coming' are just 'messianic prophecy'.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes, like the one where he said that he would be back before all of the disciples had passed away.

He was... just not in the flesh.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The things Christians believe happen at the second coming are meant to happen the first time, imo. There's no sign of a second coming unless one already believes in Jesus. What Christians term 'second coming' are just 'messianic prophecy'.

Jesus fulfilled way too many prophecies to not be the Messiah.

 

[Rival]

Jesus fulfilled way too many prophecies to not be the Messiah.

List them.

 

[Spiderman]

The spoiler on post 180 is a good start Christians and Jews Mostly: Messiah | Page 9 | Religious Forums

Hey, I'm busy for a while, not home. Would you be so kind as to cut and paste it, or present a link. If not, I shall, later.

 

[Rival]

Hey, I'm busy for a while, not home. Would you be so kind as to cut and paste it, or present a link. If not, I shall, later.

2 Shmuel 7:10-13 (Samuel)
And I will appoint a place for My people, for Israel, and I will plant them, and they will dwell in their own place, and be disturbed no more; and the wicked people shall not continue to afflict them as formerly.
And even from the day that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. And the Lord has told you that the Lord will make for you a house.
When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers, then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom.
He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

This has not happened. Wicked people have been murdering Jewish people all throughout history. The Temple is not built. There is no King.

Yeshayahu 2-4 (Isaiah)

And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and all the nations shall stream to it.
And many peoples shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount, to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge between the nations and reprove many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.

People still go to war and the Temple has not been re-established.

Yeshayahu 11-12-13

And He shall raise a banner to the nations, and He shall gather the lost of Israel, and the scattered ones of Judah He shall gather from the four corners of the earth.
And the envy of Ephraim shall cease, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, nor shall Judah vex Ephraim.

The lost tribes have not been gathered back to Israel.

Yeshahyahu 27-12-13

And it shall come to pass on that day, that the Lord shall gather from the flood of the river to the stream of Egypt, and you shall be gathered one by one, O children of Israel.
And it shall come to pass on that day, that a great shofar shall be sounded, and those lost in the land of Assyria and those exiled in the land of Egypt shall come and they shall prostrate themselves before the Lord on the holy mount in Jerusalem.

Not happened yet.

Yirmiyahu 31:33 (Jeremiah)

And no longer shall one teach his neighbour or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.

Nothing about needing a middle-man and we don't live in an age where everyone knows G-d is G-d.

Yechezkel 37:26-28 (Ezekiel)

And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever.
And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people.
And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever.

Temple still not built and the Nations don't all recognise G-d as G-d.

Micah 4:1-3

And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and peoples shall stream upon it.
And many nations shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount and to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore.

People still go to war. L-rd's House not established.

Tzefanaiah 3:9-13 (Zefanaiah)

For then I will convert the peoples to a pure language that all of them call in the name of the Lord, to worship Him of one accord.
From the other side of the rivers of Cush, My supplicants, the community of My scattered ones-they shall bring Me an offering.
On that day you shall not be ashamed of all your deeds [with] which you rebelled against Me, for then I will remove from your midst those who rejoice in your pride, and you shall no longer continue to be haughty on My holy mount.
And I will leave over in your midst a humble and poor people, and they shall take shelter in the name of the Lord.
The remnant of Israel shall neither commit injustice nor speak lies; neither shall deceitful speech be found in their mouth, for they shall graze and lie down, with no one to cause them to shudder.

This hasn't happened either. None of it.

Zach 14:9-11

And the Lord shall become King over all the earth; on that day shall the Lord be one, and His name one.
The whole earth shall be changed to be like a plain, from the hill of Rimmon in the south of Jerusalem; but it [Jerusalem] will be elevated high and remain in its old place; from the gate of Benjamin to the place of the first gate, until the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananel until the king's wine-cellars.
And they shall dwell therein, and there shall be no more destruction; but Jerusalem shall dwell in safety.

Jerusalem is hardly dwelling in safety and polytheism is still a thing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He was... just not in the flesh.

Nope, that was not the prophecy that he made. Christians desperately try to change what the Bible says. But they can't. It is still there for everyone to read.

 

[wizanda]

This is messianic and still nowhere mentions a second coming.

As far as I understand from Biblical prophecy:

• Isaiah 8:11-22 is the "First Coming" of Immanuel to lay a Snare; where the Testimony, & Law act as a Measure to the nations.
  
• Isaiah 28 is the "Second Coming", and Closure of the Bed of Adultery; like a Fig before Summer, i.e before the Great Tribulation.
• Then after all the epic destruction of this reality (Isaiah 34), there is a brand new reality like Eden (Isaiah 65:17); where then the Messianic bits happen.

The spoiler on post 180 is a good start

• 2 Samuel 7:10-13 Solomon fulfilled this of building the 1st temple, and having an epic kingdom.
• Zechariah 14:9-11 happens as all nations come against Israel (Armageddon).
  
• Ezekiel 37:26-28 is after the Resurrection.
• Isaiah 27:12-13 is the Messianic call to return.
• Jeremiah 31:33 is when all the Tribes are reunited, which is the Remnant recalled.
  
• Isaiah 11:12-13 is the Remnant within the Messianic Age.
  
• Micah 4:1-3, Isaiah 2:2-4 is within the Messianic Age.
• Zephaniah 3:9-13 the Remnant in the Messianic Age.

In my opinion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As far as I understand from Biblical prophecy:

• Isaiah 8:11-22 is the "First Coming" of Immanuel to lay a Snare; where the Testimony, & Law act as a Measure to the nations.
  
• Isaiah 28 is the "Second Coming", and Closure of the Bed of Adultery; like a Fig before Summer, i.e before the Great Tribulation.
• Then after all the epic destruction of this reality (Isaiah 34), there is a brand new reality like Eden (Isaiah 65:17); where then the Messianic bits happen.

• 2 Samuel 7:10-13 Solomon fulfilled this of building the 1st temple, and having an epic kingdom.
• Zechariah 14:9-11 happens as all nations come against Israel (Armageddon).
  
• Ezekiel 37:26-28 is after the Resurrection.
• Isaiah 27:12-13 is the Messianic call to return.
• Jeremiah 31:33 is when all the Tribes are reunited, which is the Remnant recalled.
  
• Isaiah 11:12-13 is the Remnant within the Messianic Age.
  
• Micah 4:1-3, Isaiah 2:2-4 is within the Messianic Age.
• Zephaniah 3:9-13 the Remnant in the Messianic Age.

In my opinion.

Quote mining verses that are not prophecies just because they are "close enough" for an imaginative mind to reinterpret does not make them prophecies.

 

[wizanda]

Quote mining verses that are not prophecies just because they are "close enough" for an imaginative mind to reinterpret does not make them prophecies.

It wasn't quote mining; it was replying to Rival from what I understand of scripture, in a way that hopefully kept it simple enough, whilst explaining all of the points listed.

Could have gone into loads of detail on it all, to justify tons of context; yet kept it bullet point for easy reading.

I can show where these prophecies are accurate; it just takes study, & questioning it enough.

In my opinion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It wasn't quote mining; it was replying to Rival from what I understand of scripture, in a way that hopefully kept it simple enough, whilst explaining all of the points listed.

Could have gone into loads of detail on it all, to justify tons of context; yet kept it bullet point for easy reading.

I can show where these prophecies are accurate; it just takes study, & questioning it enough.

In my opinion.

If you call that a prophecy it is quote mining. In context it is not a prophecy. It is hunting for something after the fact. One could find "prophecies" in all sorts of works of fiction if one played that game.