Yes I agree your beliefs don’t believe in such things. One question if I may. Do you believe in a personal God or is God to you a power or something else? Does your God communicate to you and how if not through Prophets?
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Prophecies Aren’t Predictions of the Future
- Thread starter sooda
- Start date
Yes I agree your beliefs don’t believe in such things. One question if I may. Do you believe in a personal God or is God to you a power or something else? Does your God communicate to you and how if not through Prophets?
So you're withdrawing your previous statement? (All religions foretell a Promised Redeemer to appear at the end of the age as well as world peace.) Or are you just changing the topic?
The post wasn’t addressed to you personally as I know you’re views and would try not to annoy you with a topic that your beliefs don’t relate to but this thread is about that topic so I posted how I view prophecies that’s all.
So you're not withdrawing this statement? (All religions foretell a Promised Redeemer to appear at the end of the age as well as world peace) Instead you're just changing topic, trying to avoid the evidence that by agreeing with me that my faith doesn't acknowledge a messiah, you contradicted yourself?
Yes I see what you’re saying.
Yes I withdraw the statement.
Many religions but not all. Thank you very much for pointing that out.
I deleted it.
Well, there's a first. Congratulations.
If I may, I would like to answer these questions....
What comes out of the grave at the time of the resurrection as @URAVIP2ME has mentioned, is a re-created body of the one who was dead and buried. (John 5:28-29) In calling the dead from their graves, it indicates that all of the dead are still in them. Revelation even mentions those who were buried at sea giving up their dead. (Revelation 20:13) Ecclesiastes also says that the dead are unconscious, incapable of thoughts or activity. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10) We have no advantage over the animals in death. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) That is not what God planned in the beginning.
Physical bodies once deprived of breath, die and as the cells break down the body decays. When Lazarus was raised by Jesus, his sister acknowledge that after four days, his body would "smell" due to decomposition. (John 11:39) What emerged from the tomb was not a decaying body but one fully restored to health. This is a physical resurrection of a dead body with the "spirit" (breath) restored to oxygenate the body.
Jesus' resurrection was the first of its kind...a resurrection to life "in the spirit". Jesus' body was removed just as Moses' body was not accessible to human interference. We see that relic worship is practiced in some lands and religions....imagine what they would have made out of bones or teeth or hair from the corpses of two of the most prominent men in scripture?
He says that those who fall asleep in death will not precede those already 'asleep'. Christ is the "firstborn from the dead" so no one went to heaven before he did.
The resurrection of those who are of the "heavenly calling" was not to take place until Christ returned to take them "home" to the place he had "prepared for them". So when Christ returned at the beginning of the "last days" of this present system, (1914) he raised all those of his anointed who were sleeping in their graves. But those of the anointed left on earth until his manifestation as judge, will not need to sleep in death at all. He says that they will all be "changed, in the twinkling of an eye" or instantaneously be transformed into spirit beings without undergoing physical death and burial.
As the last days progress all the features of the sign that Jesus gave are in evidence. He had to give a "sign of his presence" because, like his enthronement, it was not visible to human eyes. (Daniel 7:13-14)
Moses was buried by God according to scripture. No one knew where his body was. God knew that the Israelites were prone to false worship so he removed any reason to interfere with Moses' body for false religious reasons.
You are not repeating anything that a JW has told you, but misconstruing the ideas...hopefully not on purpose.
Jesus was born as the son of God. He is not an incarnation of his Father but a most trusted servant sent on a mission by him. As he was 100% human, he had to die the same death as any other human. Upon taking him down off the torture stake, his body was wrapped and placed in the tomb of Joseph ...a devout man who volunteered his own burial place.There was no time before the Sabbath to do a proper job, so they were going to come back later to finish preparing his body for what they assumed was permanent burial.
Three days later as Peter stated, he was "raised in the spirit". As a spirit he had the ability, like other spirit beings in the past, to materialize fleshly bodies. After his resurrection he only "appeared" to his apostles, but he did not stay with them. On one occasion he simply vanished before their eyes. Often they did not recognize him, so he could apparently materialize in different bodies.
To be clear, that is correct, but for the sake of the argument the Bible's formula for life is simple....
A body + breath = a soul. The Bible calls them "living souls" once they are animated by the oxygen circulated by breathing and blood flow, they become the opposite of what they were.....dead souls...to living souls..
No, he just materialized a body with wound marks to convince a doubting Thomas. There is no mention of wounds in his other appearances which would have been obvious. He was tortured before his impalement.
He was not raised in the body he sacrificed.
Yes, but the word has various meanings in scripture. One thing it never means is a former dead person in non-physical form.
Spirits can be living creatures like angels, both faithful ones and demons. It is life in a disembodied form. A non-physical life, not dependent upon anything external to keep living , like we do.These spirits are not immortal however, but like us, they are dependent upon their obedience to God to keep living.
"Spirit" can also mean a person's disposition....a strong spirit or a weak one. A spirited animals also is described this way.
There is a spirit that animates humans that "returns to God" when we die. Since that spirit is "nephesh" it is the breath that keeps us alive...the same breath that God gave to Adam, because only God can return the spirit to allow a body to live again. That is what the resurrection is all about.
The resurrection is about the dead, because the living do not need a resurrection that is the same as those sleeping in death. Theirs is rather a transformation from a living human to a living spirit. They will still need to shed their mortal flesh however. How this is accomplished, only time will tell.
The Bible speaks of two separate resurrections....one for those who will rule with Christ in heaven, who die and are resurrected as Jesus was (in spirit form) and those who are resurrected in physical bodies to resume their life on earth under God's rulership for the very first time. (Revelation 20:6; John 5:28-29) Jesus came to get back what Adam lost for his children....everlasting life in paradise on earth with the best ruler we could ever wish for.
After thousands of years of trying to rule themselves, humans will have to admit that they cannot do the job successfully without their Creator.
What comes out of the grave at the time of the resurrection as @URAVIP2ME has mentioned, is a re-created body of the one who was dead and buried. (John 5:28-29) In calling the dead from their graves, it indicates that all of the dead are still in them. Revelation even mentions those who were buried at sea giving up their dead. (Revelation 20:13) Ecclesiastes also says that the dead are unconscious, incapable of thoughts or activity. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10) We have no advantage over the animals in death. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) That is not what God planned in the beginning.
Physical bodies once deprived of breath, die and as the cells break down the body decays. When Lazarus was raised by Jesus, his sister acknowledge that after four days, his body would "smell" due to decomposition. (John 11:39) What emerged from the tomb was not a decaying body but one fully restored to health. This is a physical resurrection of a dead body with the "spirit" (breath) restored to oxygenate the body.
Jesus' resurrection was the first of its kind...a resurrection to life "in the spirit". Jesus' body was removed just as Moses' body was not accessible to human interference. We see that relic worship is practiced in some lands and religions....imagine what they would have made out of bones or teeth or hair from the corpses of two of the most prominent men in scripture?
He says that those who fall asleep in death will not precede those already 'asleep'. Christ is the "firstborn from the dead" so no one went to heaven before he did.
The resurrection of those who are of the "heavenly calling" was not to take place until Christ returned to take them "home" to the place he had "prepared for them". So when Christ returned at the beginning of the "last days" of this present system, (1914) he raised all those of his anointed who were sleeping in their graves. But those of the anointed left on earth until his manifestation as judge, will not need to sleep in death at all. He says that they will all be "changed, in the twinkling of an eye" or instantaneously be transformed into spirit beings without undergoing physical death and burial.
As the last days progress all the features of the sign that Jesus gave are in evidence. He had to give a "sign of his presence" because, like his enthronement, it was not visible to human eyes. (Daniel 7:13-14)
Moses was buried by God according to scripture. No one knew where his body was. God knew that the Israelites were prone to false worship so he removed any reason to interfere with Moses' body for false religious reasons.
You are not repeating anything that a JW has told you, but misconstruing the ideas...hopefully not on purpose.
Jesus was born as the son of God. He is not an incarnation of his Father but a most trusted servant sent on a mission by him. As he was 100% human, he had to die the same death as any other human. Upon taking him down off the torture stake, his body was wrapped and placed in the tomb of Joseph ...a devout man who volunteered his own burial place.There was no time before the Sabbath to do a proper job, so they were going to come back later to finish preparing his body for what they assumed was permanent burial.
Three days later as Peter stated, he was "raised in the spirit". As a spirit he had the ability, like other spirit beings in the past, to materialize fleshly bodies. After his resurrection he only "appeared" to his apostles, but he did not stay with them. On one occasion he simply vanished before their eyes. Often they did not recognize him, so he could apparently materialize in different bodies.
To be clear, that is correct, but for the sake of the argument the Bible's formula for life is simple....
A body + breath = a soul. The Bible calls them "living souls" once they are animated by the oxygen circulated by breathing and blood flow, they become the opposite of what they were.....dead souls...to living souls..
No, he just materialized a body with wound marks to convince a doubting Thomas. There is no mention of wounds in his other appearances which would have been obvious. He was tortured before his impalement.
He was not raised in the body he sacrificed.
Yes, but the word has various meanings in scripture. One thing it never means is a former dead person in non-physical form.
Spirits can be living creatures like angels, both faithful ones and demons. It is life in a disembodied form. A non-physical life, not dependent upon anything external to keep living , like we do.These spirits are not immortal however, but like us, they are dependent upon their obedience to God to keep living.
"Spirit" can also mean a person's disposition....a strong spirit or a weak one. A spirited animals also is described this way.
There is a spirit that animates humans that "returns to God" when we die. Since that spirit is "nephesh" it is the breath that keeps us alive...the same breath that God gave to Adam, because only God can return the spirit to allow a body to live again. That is what the resurrection is all about.
The resurrection is about the dead, because the living do not need a resurrection that is the same as those sleeping in death. Theirs is rather a transformation from a living human to a living spirit. They will still need to shed their mortal flesh however. How this is accomplished, only time will tell.
The Bible speaks of two separate resurrections....one for those who will rule with Christ in heaven, who die and are resurrected as Jesus was (in spirit form) and those who are resurrected in physical bodies to resume their life on earth under God's rulership for the very first time. (Revelation 20:6; John 5:28-29) Jesus came to get back what Adam lost for his children....everlasting life in paradise on earth with the best ruler we could ever wish for.
After thousands of years of trying to rule themselves, humans will have to admit that they cannot do the job successfully without their Creator.
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I find the difference is that God sent the pre-human Jesus to Earth for us.
So, that is why Jesus was resurrected back to his original spirit or angelic body.
Moses, like King David is still asleep in the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:34
ALL who died before Jesus can only have a physical resurrection.
Those called to heaven all died after Jesus died, and will have a new spirit body - 15th chapter of 1st Corinthians.
Why does Ezekiel 18:4,20 say the soul dies _________
Why did Luke write at Acts of the Apostles 3:23 that the soul can be destroyed if it can't ________
Adam did Not become a living soul until his God breathed the breath of life into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7.
At dead Adam became a dead soul ' returning ' to the dust (ALL of Adam returned to dust - Genesis 3:19)
A physical Jesus would Not appear through closed doors as per John 20:19; John 20:26
Jesus used different materialized bodies after he was resurrected, Doubting Thomas saw one of them.
Just as a per rally is designed to create living school spirit, or we speak of a high-spirited horse.
One's spirit is the 'spark of life' that energy we receive because of breath.
One's spirit is Not the same as being a spirit person as the angels are.
One's spirit is from God who gave "it" ( spirit is a neuter "it" as per Ecclesiastes 12:7 B )
At death our life's spirit "it" ' returns ' to God in the same way a foreclosed house ' returns ' to its owner.
The foreclosed house does Not move or go anywhere, but any future now lies in the hands of the owner.
In 1st Corinthians chapter 15 it talks about two (2) types of resurrections:
Those called to heaven (Revelation 20:6) have a first or earlier resurrection than the rest or majority of mankind.
Those called to live on earth forever have a later resurrection.
This means the majority of mankind are still asleep in the grave until Resurrection Day.
By saying Resurrection Day that means Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for 1,000 years.
Those of us who are still alive on earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' as per at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40
can remain alive on earth to become part of the humble meek people who will inherit the earth as Jesus promised when he referred to Psalms 37:9-11.
The world under Satanic influence (Revelation 12:12,9) mostly teaches heaven forever or burning forever.
The world often ignores God's purpose for righteous mankind to live on earth forever.
ALL of Jesus' resurrections brought people back to physical life right here on earth.
Jesus was giving us a preview, or a coming attraction of what he is going to do during his 1,000-year governmental rule over earth. The majority of people can live forever on a beautiful paradisical earth as Eden was a sample.
This is why Revelation 22:2 informs us there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations.
'Healing ' as described in Isaiah 35th chapter, and No one will say, " I am sick...." -Isaiah 33:24.
I notice in the ^ above ^ there is No mention about the state of 'religious affairs'.
Comparing Christendom (so-called Christians but mostly in name only ) with Scripture proves herself false to God.
Unfaithful Jerusalem in the year 70 thought itself faithful to God, but proved false.
Christendom is the modern-day counterpart of unfaithful Jerusalem, or counterfeit Christians.
Jesus said to teach for free and Jesus never ' passed the plate ', so to speak.
( Except for when Jesus 'passed the plate' around, Not to collect, but to feed people with bread and fish ).
So, perhaps even a bad economy can make the wealth the religions have amassed look easy for the political taking thus surprisingly turning on the religious world starting with unfaithful Christendom.
Even ' terrorism ' can put religion on the United Nation's radar, so to speak.
Thus, with backing the U.N. can be strengthened to become God's modern day arm of the law against Christendom as the Roman armies were surprisingly used against unfaithful Jerusalem in the year 70.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
What state of 'religious affairs' are you referring to? Can you cite examples of things that you think indicate that the UN is becoming a modern day arm of the 'law against Christendom'? And what do you believe qualifies as someone being 'against' Christendom?
I suppose one could say the ' state of religious affairs ' is in connection to religious corruption and terrorism.
The United Nations sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in today's world.
With backing the U.N. can be strengthened to become God's modern-day arm of the law against such troublemakers.
Rather, it is 'Christendom' who mainly teaches church traditions or church customs as being Scripture who is against first-century Christian teachings as found in recorded Scripture.
So, what qualifies someone as being against ' Christianity ' is the in vain teachings of Christendom - Matthew 15:9.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you're creating boogeymen that don't exist. The UN noting that religious discord in the world is increasing is a far cry from the UN becoming 'God's modern-day arm of the law against such troublemakers.'
And it also sounds as if your definition of someone who is against 'Christianity' simply comes down to anyone who doesn't agree with your particular interpretations of of 'recorded scripture'. That's only been happening for the past 2000 years, so hardly anything new there.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you're creating boogeymen that don't exist. The UN noting that religious discord in the world is increasing is a far cry from the UN becoming 'God's modern-day arm of the law against such troublemakers.'
And it also sounds as if your definition of someone who is against 'Christianity' simply comes down to anyone who doesn't agree with your particular interpretations of of 'recorded scripture'. That's only been happening for the past 2000 years, so hardly anything new there.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you're creating boogeymen that don't exist. The UN noting that religious discord in the world is increasing is a far cry from the UN becoming 'God's modern-day arm of the law against such troublemakers.'
And it also sounds as if your definition of someone who is against 'Christianity' simply comes down to anyone who doesn't agree with your particular interpretations of of 'recorded scripture'. That's only been happening for the past 2000 years, so hardly anything new there.
As I said, with backing the United Nations can be strengthened .............
Just as chapter 12 of Daniel informs us about these last days of badness on earth, there will be an increase of biblical knowledge. People can now travel, now rove, to-and-fro through the pages of Scripture as never before in history.
A comprehensive concordance puts the Bible in ABC order for us and people can search through or research the Scriptures by topic or subject arrangement and thus get a complete picture of what we can really learn from the Bible.
Sound as if you are going to be quite surprised when we see fulfillment of 1 Thessaloinians 5:2-3 when the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
As I said, with backing the United Nations can be strengthened ............
Yeah, and if pigs had wings they could fly... but the chances that pigs will suddenly sprout wings is practically nonexistent. Kind of like the chances of the UN becoming stronger instead of weaker.
Just as chapter 12 of Daniel informs us about these last days of badness on earth, there will be an increase of biblical knowledge.
How have you concluded that there is an increase in biblical knowledge? Today there are more different Christian sects than ever before, which means that there is LESS agreement on what the bible actually means than ever before.
Sound as if you are going to be quite surprised when we see fulfillment of 1 Thessaloinians 5:2-3 when the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill
Where have you been? The powers that be have been using peace and security as an excuse to control their populations for as long as civilizations have existed. Nothing new in that whatsoever.