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Featured Prophecies Aren’t Predictions of the Future

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by sooda, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Cleary

    Cleary God is sovereign and in control <><

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    lol .... that's okay, I'll anticipate the Rapture of the Church (I believe pre-trib) and ultimate glory ...
    even if I die physically before that time ... people need to hear the gospel and be saved .... are you going to snooze ?

    [​IMG]


    ................. the coming of Christ

    the coming earthly kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ .. Recorded Jun 26 1994 [​IMG]

    the glorious return of Jesus Christ .. part 1 of 3 .. Recorded Aug 28 1994 [​IMG]

    the glorious return of Jesus Christ .. part 2 of 3 .. Recorded Sep 04 1994 [​IMG]

    Revelation 19:11 .. and I saw heaven opened .. and behold .. a white horse .. and he who sat on it is called faithful and true .. and in righteousness he judges and wages war
    19:12 .. his eyes are a flame of fire .. and on his head are many diadems .. and he has a name written on him which no one knows except himself
    19:13 .. he is clothed with a robe dipped in blood .. and his name is called the Word of God
    19:14 .. and the armies which are in heaven .. clothed in fine linen .. white and clean .. were following him on white horses
    19:15 .. from his mouth comes a sharp sword .. so that with it he may strike down the nations .. and he will rule them with a rod of iron .. and he treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God .. the Almighty
    19:16 .. and on his robe and on his thigh he has a name written . . . KING OF KINGS .. AND LORD OF LORDS
     
    #101 Cleary, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Oh dear, that doctrine was invented by Darby, Scofield and Hal Lindsey.
     
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  3. Cleary

    Cleary God is sovereign and in control <><

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    Uhm, no .... you'll find it in Thessalonians
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    You should study.

    The first question that we need to ask here is, "Who is the Apostle Paul writing to?" Who is the "you" that he did not want to be ignorant? The clear and un-refutable answer is the Thessalonian Christians of the first century.

    When Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians, he was writing to Thessalonian Christians who lived in the first century. We MUST understand this if we are going to understand what he is saying.

    But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 1 Thessalonians 4:13 NASB
    First of all, who are those who sleep in Yeshua? To understand who they are, we need to know what the "hope" was that the Thessalonian believers had, but that the unsaved didn't have. The "hope" of Israel was the resurrection:

    having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. Acts 24:15 NASB

    continued

    The Rapture - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18: Berean Bible Church
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    First of all, the year 70 happened in the first century.
    Revelation was written well after the year 70.
    The setting for Revelation was for the future (Revelation 1:10) much after the year 70.
    Plus, how can anyone say Matthew 24:21 fits the year 70 ______
    Thus, that makes the year 70 as the limited or minor fulfillment of the 24th chapter of Matthew.
    So, there is No assuming that Revelation 7:14,9 is past but future.
    Just as Matthew 25:31-33 is Not past, Not present, but the soon coming future 'time of separation' to take place on Earth.
     
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  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    John of Patmos identifies himself.. Your brother in tribulation.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    What I find in Thessalonians is Resurrection, and Not Rapture.
    Remember: 1 Corinthians 15:50 lets us know ' flesh ' ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom.
     
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  8. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    It is a conjecture to say prophecies of scriptures were written after. Can you prove it?
    How? Suggest to present one example to show how it can be proven.


    .
    The prophecies are concerned with informing humanity about future Revelations of God, so, people be watching and accept the new Revelation when it comes. For instance, in old testament, many prophecies were about Messiah, so, when He comes to save them from Sin, they do not deny it, which they did because they could not recognize that Jesus was that same Messiah Moses spoke of.
    Likewise the Prophecies in New testament and the Quran, are with regards to another future Manifestation of God, who Bahais believe Bahaullah is that promised One, which most people did not recognize. In Bahai view, One of the reasons of failing to recognize, is literal interpretations of Prophecies. Now, since prophecies are fulfilled symbolically, they fail to see it, and accept it, in our view.

    .
    Its prophecies are about future events though in my view.
     
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  9. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    It was 42 months of pure horror. Read how Josephus describes the tribulation.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    ... and while in tribulation John wrote Revelation. John's tribulation is part the global troubles of Matthew 24:9.
    Troubles or tribulation that existed in John's lifetime would also exist past John's lifetime.- Matthew 10:22.
    The setting or time frame of Revelation is well past John's lifetime - Revelation 1:10.
    Thus, the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 is future. Just as Matthew 25:31-33 is future.
     
  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the ' ultimate glory ' is the time for the coming time of Jesus' glory time found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
    When Jesus will separate people on Earth as being a figurative humble ' sheep ' or a haughty 'goat'.
    The ' sheep ' can remain alive by coming through the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
    Only the upright will remain as per Proverbs 2:21-22.
     
  12. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Prophecies can be predictions about the future like when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint's founder Joseph Smith made a prophecy describing the American Civil War nearly 30 years before this historic war took place; this prophecy was totally fulfilled: :there will be a war between the northern states and the southern states beginning in South Carolina; the southern states will call upon Great Britain for assistance. Hence, this proves Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

    Doctrine and Covenants 87
     
    #112 Salvador, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  13. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    To me Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 isn't vague because the proclaiming about the good news of God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44) is now being proclaimed on a vast international scale as never before in history.
    Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible so that people living in remote areas of Earth can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages, thus fulfilling what Jesus said.
    So, this is not vague, but means we have reached the ' final phase ' of that global preaching work.


    Sounds like nothing more than an accurate prediction to me.

    I find many people think things are getting out of hand.

    What exactly does that mean? Getting 'out of hand' compared to what, exactly?

    Whether labeled as prediction or prophecy 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 lets us know we are nearing the coming ' final signal ', so to speak, when the ' powers that be ' will be saying, " Peace and Security.." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill

    Definitely nothing more than a prediction... and not necessary all that accurate either.
     
  14. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    As I said, you seek out scholars who come to a specific conclusion. Is this because you look for support of your own conclusion ?

    Have you read any of the scholars who refute this position ?

    What someone writes is an opinion, not a fact. You use the term ¨critical scholars¨ which is a dead giveaway.

    There are non critical scholars as well. You oght to spend some time reading them.
     
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  15. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I quote from your link:


    Some scholars regard statements attributed to Jesusin the Gospels that foretell the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple as examples of vaticinia ex eventu; these scholars believe that the Gospels were all written after the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70, in which the temple was destroyed.[4]

    You see? Those are only 'some' scholars have no proof. They just regard and 'believe' that Gospels were written after! It is like a Christian who believes Jesus was physically resurrected, but there is no proof. It is just a belief!
     
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  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find when people see or hear the news they often comment about things getting out of hand.
    That to me can include safety: Feeling free to walk streets at night, free to keep cars and house unlocked, etc.
    I do wonder why you think what we can learn from the Bible is Not accurate.
    Accurately, Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 is being fufilled globally just as it is written so it is.
    Even a bad economy can make the $ wealth $ the churches have amassed look attractive and easy for the political taking as a $$$$$ reason for turning on such a false religious practice.
    Plus, the trouble that false religion creates causes such religion to be on the United Nation's radar, so to speak.
    Thus, with backing the U.N. can be strengthened to become God's modern-day arm of the law against such trouble-causing religions, especially staring with 'Christendom' because she claims to follow the Bible.
     
  17. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    The rapture, in one form or another, pre millenial, inter millenial, or post millenial has been around a long time. The names were different, but the concept was the same.

    Peter wrote about it, as did Paul.

    The Millerite movement, across denominational lines was all about it in the late 1830ś to mid 1840ś
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    If Luke 19:43-44 was written after the year 70 then the Christians living in unfaithful Jerusalem would Not have left Jerusalem in the year 66 as they did.
    Only Christendom ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only ) teaches a physical resurrection for Jesus.
    There would have been No need for Jesus to use different materialized bodies after his resurrection if he had a physical body. Besides, as 1 Corinthians 15:50 informs us that ' flesh' ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom.
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I don't see where either Peter or Paul wrote about rapture, but rather about resurrection.
    Paul was clear at 1 Corinthians 15:50 that ' flesh ' ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom.
     
  20. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    If the prophecy of the destruction of the temple was written after the fact, don´t you think some writer of the NT would have written about it as proof of the prophecy being fulfilled ?

    Or, was this exclusion part of a double bluff conspiracy ?
     
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