Propaganda, who is the bad guy?

[Ellen Brown]

My whole life has been occupied with the Russians and Chinese as the bad guys. Then after 9/11 Muslims and all in the Middle East have been cast as evil. Now, with the West's fortunes dwindling, we are in the uncomfortable position of actually talking with and trading with many of "The Bad Guys", with the seemingly insane prospects of actually cooperating with one another.

In western literature and press, the Russians and Chinese are still often cast as criminals.

Is it possible that western propaganda about them is relatively self serving? Then we come to the discussion of "who started it". The whole issue gets more unseemly as I think of it.

I wish I were an alien from another Galaxy, and did not have to mix with the "Infestation of Carbon Based life forms on Earth" at times.

I am rather taken with the "Russian National Anthem", though I don't know a single bit of Russian.

 

[Notanumber]

European governments are becoming increasingly concerned that the Internet is disrupting their previously tried and trusted propaganda.

They have realised that they can no longer treat us like mushrooms and they do not like it.

 

[WalterTrull]

Is it possible that western propaganda about them is relatively self serving?

What?? WHAT?!!!
Kidding aside, maybe with the internet's insidious nature becoming more and more obvious, the next generation will question more.

 

[Nakosis]

My whole life has been occupied with the Russians and Chinese as the bad guys. Then after 9/11 Muslims and all in the Middle East have been cast as evil. Now, with the West's fortunes dwindling, we are in the uncomfortable position of actually talking with and trading with many of "The Bad Guys", with the seemingly insane prospects of actually cooperating with one another.

In western literature and press, the Russians and Chinese are still often cast as criminals.

Is it possible that western propaganda about them is relatively self serving? Then we come to the discussion of "who started it". The whole issue gets more unseemly as I think of it.

I wish I were an alien from another Galaxy, and did not have to mix with the "Infestation of Carbon Based life forms on Earth" at times.

I am rather taken with the "Russian National Anthem", though I don't know a single bit of Russian.

Maybe stop looking for bad guys?

I'm not saying there are no bad guys, maybe not as many as the media portrays. How many "bad guys" do you actually run into on a daily basis? Maybe a few folks with issues but who doesn't have issues.

The media loves to tell you who the bad guys are. Mostly people you'll never meet/interact/ever have anything to do with.

I don't know, maybe where you live it's different and ever other house on the block is home to a bad guy.

In the news, seems simple to spot the bay guys, in real life, I find it not really so easy.

I find it easier to just deal with the folks I'm directly involved with. Maybe I'll will come across an actual bad guy someday.

 

[Stevicus]

My whole life has been occupied with the Russians and Chinese as the bad guys. Then after 9/11 Muslims and all in the Middle East have been cast as evil. Now, with the West's fortunes dwindling, we are in the uncomfortable position of actually talking with and trading with many of "The Bad Guys", with the seemingly insane prospects of actually cooperating with one another.

In western literature and press, the Russians and Chinese are still often cast as criminals.

Is it possible that western propaganda about them is relatively self serving? Then we come to the discussion of "who started it". The whole issue gets more unseemly as I think of it.

I wish I were an alien from another Galaxy, and did not have to mix with the "Infestation of Carbon Based life forms on Earth" at times.

I am rather taken with the "Russian National Anthem", though I don't know a single bit of Russian.

I grew up with the Russians as "villains," but early on, I wanted to learn more about them and why they were (or maybe still are) "bad guys." For one thing, it's not something that can be put upon the people as a whole. Most of the ordinary people are pretty nice, but as with anything, there are some good and some bad.

Studying their history and learning more about their culture and worldview, I can see where, from their point of view, they might see us as the "bad guys." Every country has their unique vantage point as to how they look at the world around them.

There was a slogan that got tossed around a lot during the Cold War: "Know your enemy!" That's what I tried to do, to get to know who they were as people.

One thing that strikes me as significant - particularly in comparison to what we faced in America at the time - is that they went through utter hell during the World Wars, as well as a Civil War from 1918-20 (although counter-revolutionary violence would continue throughout the 20s).

The Chinese had also faced ongoing civil wars and internal strife throughout the first half of the century, not to mention having to deal with Japanese invasions and mass slaughters before and during WW2. After WW2, General Marshall tried to help mediate a settlement between the Nationalists and the Communists, but ended up leaving and disgusted with both sides.

Personally, I've never had to live through or go through anything like that, not in America. Maybe we've been fortunate in that respect. But I try to keep that in mind when listening to some people's harsh judgements of other countries. I also keep in mind that we have a track record of sending military forces into China in the earlier part of the 20th century (Boxer Rebellion and other incidents), as well as our participation in the Allied intervention on the side of the Whites in the Russian Civil War. In contrast, they never did anything like that to us.

At this point, I don't think we should trust them too much, but I also don't think we should take them lightly either. The West is often too light-hearted; they look at geopolitics like it's some sort of game. The propaganda we use is very simplistic and juvenile - like it's out of a comic book. That goes along the general spirit of how we approach things. We need to take it more serious, as the Russians and Chinese strike me as rather serious and thoughtful people. We can't keep playing games like this; we have to deal with them on a more serious and meaningful level.

 

[Notanumber]

Do the Russians or the Chinese follow an ideology of world domination?

 

[ChristineM]

My whole life has been occupied with the Russians and Chinese as the bad guys. Then after 9/11 Muslims and all in the Middle East have been cast as evil. Now, with the West's fortunes dwindling, we are in the uncomfortable position of actually talking with and trading with many of "The Bad Guys", with the seemingly insane prospects of actually cooperating with one another.

In western literature and press, the Russians and Chinese are still often cast as criminals.

Is it possible that western propaganda about them is relatively self serving? Then we come to the discussion of "who started it". The whole issue gets more unseemly as I think of it.

I wish I were an alien from another Galaxy, and did not have to mix with the "Infestation of Carbon Based life forms on Earth" at times.

I am rather taken with the "Russian National Anthem", though I don't know a single bit of Russian.

Many years ago i went on holiday with mom and dad to a black sea resort. The majority of holiday makers were russian.

The cold war was raging and i was petrified of the evil monsters portrayed on TV

They turned out to be great fun, happy and cheerful.

Propaganda has never had the same effect since, now i judge people for themselves, not how the government driven media tells me to judge.

 

[icehorse]

I have my go-to way of thinking about questions like this: Compare my core values (Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UDHR)) with the values of the system being assessed. If any country's policies conflict with the UDHR, then I consider them dubious.

(all of which means, you can cut thru propaganda on your own )

 

[Valjean]

European governments are becoming increasingly concerned that the Internet is disrupting their previously tried and trusted propaganda.

They have realised that they can no longer treat us like mushrooms and they do not like it.

The government can't use the internet?
I suspect they're using the newer delivery system just as they did the old outlets.

Do the Russians or the Chinese follow an ideology of world domination?

You're probably thinking of the Americans. The Russkis do worry about threats on their borders, and do have a tendancy to annex neighbors. I don't know ig this would be considered world domination, though.
The Chinese? evolving too fast to speculate.

 

[Notanumber]

The government can't use the internet?
I suspect they're using the newer delivery system just as they did the old outlets.
You're probably thinking of the Americans. The Russkis do worry about threats on their borders, and do have a tendancy to annex neighbors. I don't know ig this would be considered world domination, though.
The Chinese? evolving too fast to speculate.

Governments cannot use the Internet to their advantage so they do not want others to be able to do so.

Hungary used to be ruled by Russia and they do not want to be ruled over again. The EU is doing its best to change that.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Do the Russians or the Chinese follow an ideology of world domination?

Just an amateur's theory here. WWI and II seemed to come from the royalty of Europe. Not sure why the early Muslims decided to try to conquest over the world? Well, very early the Chinese had their dynasties. Perhaps it was a step in Anthropological Development? Presently, I think that the agressions come from the rich moguls of the west seeking money through oil and minerals. Maybe there is a gene that passes our incivility on?

I fear that if Homo Sapiens ever gets meaningful space travel, the consequences will be dire for any sentient beings we meet, unless we encounter beings that are more lethal than us?

 

[Valjean]

Just an amateur's theory here. WWI and II seemed to come from the royalty of Europe. Not sure why the early Muslims decided to try to conquest over the world? Well, very early the Chinese had their dynasties. Perhaps it was a step in Anthropological Development? Presently, I think that the agressions come from the rich moguls of the west seeking money through oil and minerals. Maybe there is a gene that passes our incivility on?

I fear that if Homo Sapiens ever gets meaningful space travel, the consequences will be dire for any sentient beings we meet, unless we encounter beings that are more lethal than us?

Heaven help the inhabitants of any planet that has significant dilithium deposits.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Many years ago i went on holiday with mom and dad to a black sea resort. The majority of holiday makers were russian.

The cold war was raging and i was petrified of the evil monsters portrayed on TV

They turned out to be great fun, happy and cheerful.

Propaganda has never had the same effect since, now i judge people for themselves, not how the government driven media tells me to judge.

A Russian movie I saw called loosely "Attraction" was masterfully done Science Fiction. There is much good work done by them on YouTube. While I won't commit treason against America, I hope that one day, the peoples of the Earth will one day get good leaders who do not wish to line their pockets.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Heaven help the inhabitants of any planet that has significant dilithium deposits.

Or "Unobtainium" for that matter.

 

[Mindmaster]

My whole life has been occupied with the Russians and Chinese as the bad guys. Then after 9/11 Muslims and all in the Middle East have been cast as evil. Now, with the West's fortunes dwindling, we are in the uncomfortable position of actually talking with and trading with many of "The Bad Guys", with the seemingly insane prospects of actually cooperating with one another.

The answer is no one is the bad guy, they're just doing what they think they need to do to survive.

Anyone asking you to believe we're beset with enemies foreign and domestic is trying to manipulate you, plain and simple. This, of course, is the real point of politics aside from the relative gravity of situations which affect the population directly. Examples of manipulation:

1) Trump is working for Russia.
2) Obama is a shill for the middle east.
3) Bill Clinton was a Chinese agent.

While any of these Presidents certainly had diplomatic involvement with these countries, they certainly haven't been working for them.

There are also things that are real problems like migrant and refugee crises, illegal immigration, and substance abuse. Generally, to me, the indicator is whether or not something is real is that it has a human toll. Does what being said, if believed to be true, actually have something we can score it on? It's obvious to the extent of the example statements that they're complete bull****, since how exactly would you prove any of them? The other problems are real dilemmas where we can do math and figure out how much pain we're going through.

 

[Ellen Brown]

The answer is no one is the bad guy, they're just doing what they think they need to do to survive.

Anyone asking you to believe we're beset with enemies foreign and domestic is trying to manipulate you, plain and simple. This, of course, is the real point of politics aside from the relative gravity of situations which affect the population directly. Examples of manipulation:

1) Trump is working for Russia.
2) Obama is a shill for the middle east.
3) Bill Clinton was a Chinese agent.

While any of these Presidents certainly had diplomatic involvement with these countries, they certainly haven't been working for them.

There are also things that are real problems like migrant and refugee crises, illegal immigration, and substance abuse. Generally, to me, the indicator is whether or not something is real is that it has a human toll. Does what being said, if believed to be true, actually have something we can score it on? It's obvious to the extent of the example statements that they're complete bull****, since how exactly would you prove any of them? The other problems are real dilemmas where we can do math and figure out how much pain we're going through.

I see that you see yourself as being a "Theistic Satanist". Hmmm

I am mostly, 95% scientific, but have been exposed to lots of religions, and have found them mostly wanting. I still know there is a Creator, and cautiously study the meaning of the life of Jesus the Christ. Here, being on a Religious Forum, I mostly try to discuss belief.

 

[Mindmaster]

I see that you see yourself as being a "Theistic Satanist". Hmmm

I am mostly, 95% scientific, but have been exposed to lots of religions, and have found them mostly wanting. I still know there is a Creator, and cautiously study the meaning of the life of Jesus the Christ. Here, being on a Religious Forum, I mostly try to discuss belief.

I'm not really sure what it has to do with this discussion, but I have no beef with Jesus I just simply don't believe that he existed. I find really no more compelling evidence that he existed than say King Arthur or Merlin did. Religious Satanism isn't a philosophy or study it's a directly experienced thing, so what that means is pretty individual to the person. However, that being said most Satanists don't take any consideration of Christian beliefs in their ideology other than being opposed to religious indoctrination / dogma.

As far as who or what the creator is or that there is even one is anyone's guess, but anyone telling you something different is probably lying. Knowing there is a Satan doesn't imply that he's the creator, etc. The mainstream religions have a pretty arrogant position on the thing, if you think about it.

 

[Revoltingest]

The Chinese? evolving too fast to speculate.

With their actions in Tibet, the South China Sea, & domestically,
I judge them to be the greatest threat

 

[Notanumber]

With their actions in Tibet, the South China Sea, & domestically,
I judge them to be the greatest threat

I judge Islam to be a greater threat.

 

[Revoltingest]

I judge Islam to be a greater threat.

China is more organized.
But I see merit in your choice.