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propaganda is NOT advertising.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sunstone, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Propaganda is not advertising and advertising is not propaganda.


    Thinking they are the same is a confusion in labeling.

    Propaganda is a field of engineering. It is science driven. It engineers a person's decision-making.

    Advertising is a 'material' seldom used but for special applications. You cannot condirm it as propaganda unless you have something like the NSA to help you.​

    II you assume they are the same, then you will turn your back on the lions, thinking you are facing the threat by dealing with some minor predator or another.

    That's how I would want to be told about lions, if someone was trying to call my attention to them.

    And this would be where I'd start to look into the danger that propaganda puts me in.

    A documentary: The Century of the Self. Available on YouTube.​

    One of my rules of thumb is, to check if I'm looking at something that seems like something the CIA, M5, etc. might use during war to mislead an enemy's people. Not the generals. The masses.

    I cut if off there as the first decision point. But only in pattern. If it is in any direction threat a to the unity of a nation, or if it pits two groups against each other, that's the second cut.

    That's almost certainly propaganda. But at that point, it's source unknown.​

    I never dismiss something. Not nowadays. Not published anytime after 1920.

    I just scale it. But never to zero until I confirm the source. Propaganda is never truly benign.


    My 2 cents. Take it or leave it.



     
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  2. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Of course. Advertising just wants to sell you stuff. Propaganda wants to tell you what to think.
     
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  3. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    I suspect sometimes advertising is used as propaganda... Not every last ad, of course. The majority of them simply want you to purchase their junk. But I think to an extent, advertising can be used to employ an overly materialistic mindset, to push the general populace in a direction that's desired.
     
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  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    NO!

    That is what I would see as speculating.

    Everyone speculates. It's called planning when its goal oriented. But advertising is never used as propaganda. Unless your food uses you as a brain.

    That is precisely the relationship here.

    The knowledge base tapped for the propaganda's information flow is never advertising. It is always the neurosciences, plus whatever else. The sciences that study the central nervous system in all animals. They use every study they find and make some use of it.

    I would see your insightful comments on materialism as advertising that ramps up the visibility on attraction of some common cultural trait, mostly biased by the universal way people see 'natural' as anything their culture has taught them is natural. The world. Reality.

    My 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
     
  5. Labourwave

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    I think the same can be said of advertising.
     
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  6. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Whilst they are definitely different, I do think capitalist societies do have their own propaganda encouraging materialism. Using culture to promote status symbols and praising materialism. I think advertising could contribute, not in the same way propaganda does. But as a sort of reinforcement. Maybe even unintentionally. I mean nothing happens in a vacuum. How often do we see ads portraying a certain product as a way for prospective customers to gain a fancy symbol or status in society? If only they buy insert product here. Strong successful people have X, says the ads.

    I know, I know. I’m speculating. The science probably doesn’t back me. I’m just saying. Some advertising can be a bit aggressive, even today. Not the same as propaganda.
     
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  7. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    Honestly, everything is propaganda. (Of course, I'm speculating.)

    Almost everyone is out to manipulate the way you think. It starts with your parents. And then the crud they teach you in school. The junk you watch on TV(well, the internet now). The nonsense threads on your favorite social media platform. Your latest public service announcement.

    Some of these has your best interests at heart. Some don't. Some think they do.



    Who is employed in this field? What is its purpose?
     
  8. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus άντρας των αστεριών

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    Yes, and so wouldn't an example of propaganda be a thread on one's view/opinion on propaganda?

    Definition:

    2: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

    3: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause also : a public action having such an effect
     
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  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    "Propaganda" strikes me as influence that distorts reality.
    And it has nefarious connotations.
     
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  10. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Whilst I see where you’re coming from. By definition propaganda is something which seeks to distort reality and specifically change your way of thinking. Spreading misinformation even. PR campaigns spring to mind. Platforms spreading conspiracy theories. So I think there is definitely a more nefarious undertone to propaganda.

    Though that said, I do agree with you somewhat. That propaganda can be found in a lot of things. I’m told there is a fair amount of American Exceptionalism in history classes of the US. If that is true, then one could definitely argue that the Education system is propagating specific propaganda. Just for example.
     
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  11. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    The trouble is, I think, with propaganda, is that one can spread it and not realize that's what it is they're doing. So while it can be nefarious at its root, many people spreading it are not meaning to do ill.

    Take the recent QAnon BS. Most of those people really believe that stuff. And then they pass it along.

    And I think you're right regarding the examples of the educational system, @SomeRandom . History tends to be told by the dominant culture. Students generally only hear one part of the story. Those that pass history along are trying to get better about it, but will still have a tendency to demonize someone or the other when it comes to unpleasant pasts. Its hard just to pass down a neutral account for most people.

    To be fair, though, its hard to tell a story from another POV other than one's own. I'm not sure how we can really get away from that in history classes. When it comes to history, the only ones who know for sure aren't here anymore.
     
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  12. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Fair point. I’m still baffled by that particular conspiracy theory.

    Agreed. Except Hitler. Screw that guy. Interestingly I don’t know if your history class did this but when we were learning WWII, my teacher went to great pains to point out that the so called “Axis of Evil” was actually propaganda. We no longer call it that.
    In Australia, at least in my history classes, I did notice a concerted effort to at least try to present two sides of the story. Particularly with the Colonisation of the country. Captain Cook wasn’t the hero previous generations thought he was. We screwed over the aboriginals etc.
    The closest thing we have for propagandist education in that sense is WWI. Which was remembered as solemn and kind of effed up.
    I’m told this is not the case for my American counterparts (depending on the state.) Hero worship and celebrating the victors is probably not a good idea when teaching history.

    Good point
     
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  13. aketo

    aketo Active Member

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    There's definitely an overlap. Propaganda may never be advertisement, but the opposite can be true whether intended or not.
    There's always some study of behaviour done for advertising as well. Just to a lesser degree.
     
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  14. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    Definitely. Screw Hitler.

    When I was in school, there was a degree of hero worship. I do remember one teacher who spent probably as much time teaching us about the wartime propaganda as the actual events. He was the exception, not the rule, though.

    You're right it varies a lot depending on the state. I'm in the Midwest, but my husband grew up in smaller southern towns. Some of the stuff he was taught was downright appalling.
     
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  15. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    One of my history teachers so despised Hitler we could actually side track her with random questions about the Third Reich. Quite the informative class lol

    Interesting
    I remember one of my old classmates was from the US but migrated here with her family. She once remarked that our school was much more honest than her old one. I didn’t quite get what she meant by that at the time. I think I know now lol
     
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  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The intentions can easily become overlapped, incidentally or deliberately. An example would be those BP ads after the Gulf oil spill. They spent many millions of dollars on long, very glossy and heavily produced TV ads intended to convince us all of the fatherly benevolence and social magnanimity of a giant corporation that is clearly neither. The ads were not selling any particular product for money. They were supposedly selling an image of big oil as being exceptionally generous and socially and environmentally responsible. Even after they just created a huge environmental disaster because they were too greedy to follow regulatory procedures. But the real purpose for those ads was to pump hundreds of millions of dollars into the coffers of the major TV networks to buy their silence on future disasters. Which they did, successfully.

    Technically, those ads were advertising, were propaganda, AND were bribes, all at the same time. But the bribery was the real intent.
     
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