Proofs of existence of God

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna

This is, I think, an interesting topic. The 'impossible' for scientists; the 'possible' for philosophers and the 'experience' of the devotees of God. I would like to encourage everybody to think about some proof for existence of God whether philosophical or experiential. Sharing your thoughts will enhance the faith of everyone and increase love of God.

Thank you in advance for your magnanimous writings.

Please chant Hare Krishna and be happy.
Nitai

 

[michel]

Hare Krishna

This is, I think, an interesting topic. The 'impossible' for scientists; the 'possible' for philosophers and the 'experience' of the devotees of God. I would like to encourage everybody to think about some proof for existence of God whether philosophical or experiential. Sharing your thoughts will enhance the faith of everyone and increase love of God.

Thank you in advance for your magnanimous writings.

Please chant Hare Krishna and be happy.
Nitai

Hi Nitai;

I am not sure if you are just making a suggestion, or whether you are hoping that members will respond. If it is the latter, I can move this thread into general debates, rather than 'one to one' - just let me know, O.K?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One of my experinces just happened recently. Before I tore my ACL, I had great speed, agility, and acrobatic ablilies, then I lost it all with some freak accident. One of the things I missed the most was being able to run fast. I sat outside one night, asking for aid to help me run like I used to. After awhile, I felt a connection to the nocturnal energies I havent felt in a long time. I knew it was that same energy that gave me great athletic abilities. I walked into the road, strechted abit, sprinted, and I felt one of the greatest joys I've ever felt. I was able to run quickly again, even though it was only a short distance, and it wasnt' a very graceful run, bit it was fast, and it felt wonderful.

 

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna


Thank you Michel, for the info. I think you know better what to do, I mean if you think this thread should be in other place, I don't mind if you move it.

Please chant Hare Krishna and be happy
Nitai

 

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna

Interesting story Luke.

That energy you speak about must have an ultimate source, namely the energetic. I think that's how you was thinking to give proof that God exist. That He is the ultimate source of energy. Is this correct?
Another interesting point is that the scientist ascribe the ability in man to a DNA and RNA. According to them these are only a combination of particular material elements. They work nicely just like some machine.
But considering from a theistic viewpoint, no machine can work without consciousness. The Vedas say there is an individual consciousness, we the soul; and the Supreme consciousness that is conscious of all the universe. In your case nor the DNA, nor the doctors, nor your own conscious self could make the body move vigorously. So, what was the cause of your regaining your good condition? Certainly not only the rehabilitation of the material body but the good will of the Supreme Lord as well. He gave the ability to you to run. So, this is exactly what the Vedas say, "God is the ability in man". And there is one more interesting say, "Not even the grass can move without His will".


Please chant Hare Krishna and be Happy
Nitai

 

[Scott1]

I would like to encourage everybody to think about some proof for existence of God whether philosophical or experiential.

I'm not sure of what you are looking for.... the is no "proof" available for the existence of God in the sense of "proof" for natural sciences.

I believe there are converging and convincing arguments about the existence of God that allow us to attain relative certainty about the truth.... but I don't think anyone should call it "proof".

Peace be with you,
Scott

 

[Quiddity]

If we had "proof" in the sense that SOGFPP is refering to what would then happen to faith?
Not that you would seize to have it, but rather it would take upon another form. Perhaps this faith is not what God intended.

~Victor

 

[michel]

If we had "proof" in the sense that SOGFPP is refering to what would then happen to faith?
Not that you would seize to have it, but rather it would take upon another form. Perhaps this faith is not what God intended.

~Victor

I am with you there - the absence of proof of G-d is exactly the way G-d designed the whole of humanity - it would just be too easy, now would'nt it, if we had proof ?

 

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna

I would like to give just a small suggestion for clarifying the word 'proof'. It seems that there are different understandings of this term.

So, some use the word 'proof' only in the sense that only material tangible things can proof something. Their conclusion is therefor, that there are no proofs for existence of God.

However, when we use the word 'proof' in broader sense that can imply also spiritual logic, reasoning and ultimately religious experience then we can certainly see that there are plenty proofs for existence of God.

There is also one interesting eastern proof for existence of God what in the west is not considered and that is the archaeological proof. When God decides to do something nobody can stop Him and thus He comes time to time to live with us in this material planet like e.g. in the past Krishna, Rama and Lord Caitanya (just before 500 years ago). So, interestingly there are archaeological evidences that They were actually in this planet. Moreover, there are plenty of Historical descriptions about Their lives.

Pease, chant Hare Krishna and be happy

Nitai

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

"Proof for the Existence of God," seems to invite ridicule. But remember how all-knowing doctors/scientists laughed when they heard for the first time that some diseases were caused by animals so tiny that you could not see them. They continued to laugh at virtually every discovery that challenged their previous believes in an attempt to preserve the status of "have-studied-for-years-and-must-therefore-know-everything-already."

The problem, I suggest, lies in certain preconceptions. If we picture God as a person, then the question comes up: where is God? However, if we picture God as something that could be everywhere, surrounding us like air or awareness, then, understanding if and what God is - all of a sudden - becomes a possibility.

God is self-energetic Awareness. Looking at what constitutes our world, we can say that all matter consists of energy, proving the existence of energy. How, then, do we know this energy exists? The simple answer is, we are aware of it. How this awareness came about? Did it come from dead matter or lifeless energy as the materialists have us believe? Or, did Awareness co-exist with energy, out of which the Awareness then formed matter? Is awareness a by-product of electro-chemical activities in the brain? Is Awareness the out-put/Generator? We are more certain considering our thoughts. Thinking is definitely an out-put. But, who is thinking and who is aware? Whether it is the whole Universe or our own thoughts, the question is: who or what is the first cause? It is logical to conclude that awareness cannot be the product of dead matter or life-less energy.

I claim that God can be proven indirectly through very convincing circumstantial evidence and directly through personal experience.

One could call it Prima Facie Evidence, which is evidence of such a high degree of probability that it is recognized as evidence until the opposite can be proven.

from: "Awareness - The Center of Being"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"Proof for the Existence of God," seems to invite ridicule. But remember how all-knowing doctors/scientists laughed ...

Note the mild hyperbole and petty ad hominem ...

... when they heard for the first time that some diseases were caused by animals so tiny that you could not see them.

... until being convinced otherwise by the evidence - evidence typically discovered, analyzed, reviewed and refined by other doctors/scientists, allowing you to sit at a personal computer and toss childish pebbles at science over the ethernet and the world wide web.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I claim that God can be proven indirectly through very convincing circumstantial evidence and directly through personal experience. ... One could call it Prima Facie Evidence, which is evidence of such a high degree of probability that it is recognized as evidence until the opposite can be proven.

One could, but it renders the claim no less worthless.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Note the mild hyperbole and petty ad hominem ...
... until being convinced otherwise by the evidence - evidence typically discovered, analyzed, reviewed and refined by other doctors/scientists, allowing you to sit at a personal computer and toss childish pebbles at science over the ethernet and the world wide web.

Duet, I do not cast stones, I am in fact trying to get everyone to reach a happy medium.

Like you said, it takes the collaboration of many scientists, and many hypothesis to eventually reach the truth, and sometimes, even, the 'truth' might be wrong when other scientists add what they have found to be truth.

None of us can be absolutely 100% sure of what we think is true, but maybe all of us together, can come somewhere really close.

 

[Nitai]

Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:

Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?
If your curiosity has been piqued and you desire to look into this matter further, we recommend that you consider the world's assortment of Holy Books. Because God has revealed Himself in them, He surely exists...
*mod edit* the following was taken from: http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/does-god-exist-c.htm

Please chant Hare Krishna and be happy

Nitai

 

[Fluffy]

I don't know about proof but here are the usual arguments for and against some kind of god. Unfortunately the link, at the bottom, about evidence for god from a scientific point of view, is broken. Typical.

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/GODEXIST.html

 

[painted wolf]

-I think you'll find the origins of the univerce are still to be debated... not byond a reasonable doubt.
-DNA is mostly gobledy-gook and not all that exquisit it often malfunctions and mistranslates... most molecular 'machines' are self replicating and many can be formed naturally without aid of a 'meccanic'.
-Intelligence and design are nowhere near demonstrated prerequisites for life to form.
-The odds cited are based on a faulty application of a mathmatical theory... they are not legitimate representations of the actual odds of life forming...
-quantum physics demonstrates that the natural laws are more flexable and less consistant than many would think...
-my morals and my conscious are determined by my culture predominately... If I grew up in another time and place no doubt I would hold values different from the ones I hold now...
-I tend to not trust everything I read..

In the end yes, it is a personal decision for how you relate to the univerce around you and your concept of a creator, some people take it at face value and others look deeper...

wa:do

 

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna.

The biggest question one can ask here can we understand God by mental speculation including science and different types of philosophies.

The answer is that the Absolute Truth, Transcendence, is never subject to direct experience or mental speculation. The mental speculator may be called Dr. Frog. The story is that a frog in a three-foot well wanted to calculate the length and breadth of the Atlantic Ocean on the basis of his knowledge of his own well. But it was an impossible task for Dr. Frog. A person may be a great academician, scholar or professor, but he cannot speculate and expect to understand the Absolute Truth, for his senses are limited. The cause of all causes, the Absolute Truth, can be known from the Absolute Truth Himself, and not by our ascending process to reach Him. When the sun is not visible at night or when it is covered by a cloud in the day, it is not possible to uncover it, either by bodily or mental strength or by scientific instruments, although the sun is there in the sky. No one can say that he has discovered a torchlight so powerful that if one goes on a roof and focuses the torchlight on the night sky, the sun will then be seen. There is no such torchlight, nor is it possible.
The Absolute Truth, God cannot be manifested by any strain of so-called scientific advancement of knowledge. Transcendence is not the subject matter of direct experience. The Absolute Truth may be known in the same way as the sun covered by a cloud or covered by night, for when the sun rises in the morning, in its own way, then everyone can see the sun, everyone can see the world, and everyone can see himself. This understanding of self-realization is called atma-tattva. Unless, however, one comes to this point of understanding atma-tattva - the truth about the soul, one remains in the darkness in which he was born.
*mod edit* this post was taken from: http://vedabase.net/sb/4/11/23/en1 *
Please chant Hare Krishna and be happy

Nitai

 

[Scuba Pete]

The Finger Prints of God​

Stephen Curtis Chapman​

I can see the tears filling Your eyes​

And I know where they're coming from​

They're coming from a heart that's broken in two​

By what you don't see​

The person in the mirro​

Doesn't look like the magazine​

Oh, but when I look at you it's clear to me that ...​

​

I can see the fingerprints of God​

When I look at you​

I can see the fingerprints of God​

And I know it's true​

You're a masterpiece​

That all creation quietly applauds​

And you're covered with the fingerprints of God!​

​

Never has there been and never again​

Will there be another you​

Fashioned by God's hand​

And perfectly planned​

To be just who you are​

And what He's been creating​

Since the first beat of your heart​

Is a living breathing priceless work of art and ...​

​

Just look at you​

You're a wonder in the making​

Oh, and God's not through, no​

In fact, He's just getting started and ...​

​

​

​

​

I can see the fingerprints of God​

When I look at you​

I can see the fingerprints of God​

And I know it's true​

You're a masterpiece​

That all creation quietly applauds​

And you're covered with the fingerprints of God​

​

It is obvious that God is indeed guilty of creating us. His fingerprints prove it! ​

 

[pandamonk]

Hare Krishna

This is, I think, an interesting topic. The 'impossible' for scientists; the 'possible' for philosophers and the 'experience' of the devotees of God. I would like to encourage everybody to think about some proof for existence of God whether philosophical or experiential. Sharing your thoughts will enhance the faith of everyone and increase love of God.

Thank you in advance for your magnanimous writings.

Please chant Hare Krishna and be happy.
Nitai

here's 300 "proofs" of God's existence http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm