Proof of God!

[usfan]

Since many (all?!) threads here seem to devolve into a 'prove God!' debate, why not do it straight up, so philosophizing on other subjects won't be distracted?

I propose an examination of evidence for the existence of God, perhaps the most Important Question in the universe, especially in these modern times.

This is a general philosophy topic, not specific to any religious belief. I think this is an appropriate subforum for the topic.

Defining God specifically is not important, nor are caricatures from anyone helpful in examining the evidence.

But i propose this as a light hearted inquiry.. no dogmatism.. no preaching about personal opinions.. and please, no bigoted hostility.. just evidence for God.

Circumstantial, historical, testimonial, empirical, sensual.. subjective, objective, or anecdotal.. anything you want that is evidence for, or against, the existence of God.

Any reasoning is welcome, but not endless repetition of talking points. Make your case, offer rebuttals, and let the reasoning stand on its own. Pounding a propaganda drum does not improve the arguments.

 

[Left Coast]

Defining God specifically is not important, nor are caricatures from anyone helpful in examining the evidence.

Defining the god you believe in will be essential for this to be a productive thread. If we don't know what you're trying to demonstrate, how will we know if you've done it?

 

[stvdv]

Defining God specifically is not important, nor are caricatures from anyone helpful in examining the evidence.

Proof of God!
How to get "proof of God", if "God" is not even defined or if all have a different definition? Please enlighten me
Or do you mean: I should define "how I see God", and then give a prove for that? This I can understand and give a try

 

[SalixIncendium]

Ooh! We get to use our own definitions of God?! That makes this easy!

Everything that is immutabe and mutable is God. God is everything that is immutable and mutable.

 

[usfan]

Defining the god you believe in will be essential for this to be a productive thread. If we don't know what you're trying to demonstrate, how will we know if you've done it?

Proof of God!
How to get "proof of God", if "God" is not even defined or if all have a different definition? Please enlighten me
Or do you mean: I should define "how I see God", and then give a prove for that? This I can understand and give a try

..prove or disprove whatever god or non god you want. I'm just trying to keep the debate generic.. not flooded with arguments about Zeus, Baal, bible quotes, and flying spaghetti monsters..

The ARGUMENTS & EVIDENCE, is the subject here, not specific beliefs.. but you can make any arguments you please.. i just hope to keep it topical. 'Ridicule of Christianity!', is another topic, and should have its own thread.

I'll put together some evidences i see, soon. I just wanted to open up the discussion.

 

[PureX]

Since many (all?!) threads here seem to devolve into a 'prove God!' debate, why not do it straight up, so philosophizing on other subjects won't be distracted?

I propose an examination of evidence for the existence of God, ...

What makes you think that if God exists, there would be "evidence" of it? Or that if there were evidence of it, that we humans would be able to recognize it as such?

Defining God specifically is not important, nor are caricatures from anyone helpful in examining the evidence.

Well, if I define God as "wetness", then I will have my evidence of God's existence every time it rains. So I would think the definition matters in relation to any demand for 'evidence'.

 

[usfan]

Ooh! We get to use our own definitions of God?! That makes this easy!

Everything that is immutabe and mutable is God. God is everything that is immutable and mutable.

/debate

If that is your definition/perception of God, then yes, it is a very short debate. But you have provided no evidence, as the thread requested, just statements of belief.

What evidence do you have, for this perception/definition of God?

 

[columbus]

Defining God specifically is not important, nor are caricatures from anyone helpful in examining the evidence.

Defining God is crucial.
Personally, I define God as the reason that there's something, rather than nothing. I can prove it, because there is something.

But that's it. That isn't even evidence that God still exists.

What I don't do is anthropomorphise God, or claim to know anything important about God. That's religion.
Religion is humans claiming to know things about the unknowable, the supernatural. I don't find humans all that trustworthy, because I know about their propensity towards believing incorrectly. Especially when the belief is self aggrandizing, such as believing that you know about God.
Tom

 

[usfan]

What makes you think that if God exists, there would be "evidence" of it? Or that if there were evidence of it, that we humans would be able to recognize it as such?

that's the point. If you have evidence or arguments for or against the existence of God, go for it!

Well, if I define God as "wetness", then I will have my evidence of God's existence every time it rains. So I would think the definition matters in relation to any demand for 'evidence'.

..whatever floats your boat..

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Ooh! We get to use our own definitions of God?! That makes this easy!

Everything that is immutabe and mutable is God. God is everything that is immutable and mutable.

What do you mean by "everything immutable and mutable"? Are you talking about the universe?

 

[Left Coast]

..prove or disprove whatever god or non god you want. I'm just trying to keep the debate generic.. not flooded with arguments about Zeus, Baal, bible quotes, and flying spaghetti monsters..

If we define god as Zeus or Baal or Yahweh or FSM then those references would be perfectly on point. There is no "generic" god. You're going to have to define it.

The ARGUMENTS & EVIDENCE, is the subject here, not specific beliefs..

Arguments and evidence for what? You have to define your terms before we can begin to make or evaluate arguments or discuss evidence for something.

Your OP has thrown off this thread before it even started.

 

[usfan]

Defining God is crucial.
Personally, I define God as the reason that there's something, rather than nothing. I can prove it, because there is something.

If you want to make an argument for some specific definition of God, go for it! I did not want to narrowly define this concept, so that anyone could feel free to relate the evidence they see, if any.

.funny to me, that arguments about the wording seems to obsess people, more than the obvious intention of the premise!

 

[Left Coast]

Personally I think this is God and you're all heretics if you disagree.

 

[Salvador]

Since many (all?!) threads here seem to devolve into a 'prove God!' debate, why not do it straight up, so philosophizing on other subjects won't be distracted?

I propose an examination of evidence for the existence of God, perhaps the most Important Question in the universe, especially in these modern times.

This is a general philosophy topic, not specific to any religious belief. I think this is an appropriate subforum for the topic.

Defining God specifically is not important, nor are caricatures from anyone helpful in examining the evidence.

But i propose this as a light hearted inquiry.. no dogmatism.. no preaching about personal opinions.. and please, no bigoted hostility.. just evidence for God.

Circumstantial, historical, testimonial, empirical, sensual.. subjective, objective, or anecdotal.. anything you want that is evidence for, or against, the existence of God.

Any reasoning is welcome, but not endless repetition of talking points. Make your case, offer rebuttals, and let the reasoning stand on its own. Pounding a propaganda drum does not improve the arguments.

Evilness eliminates the possibility God as an omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent being actually exists .

An omnipotent, omniscient, highly benevolent being would have the wariness as well as the power and willingness to destroy evil. Hence, because evil does exist, there can really be no such entity like an omnipotent, omniscient, and highly benevolent being.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If that is your definition/perception of God, then yes, it is a very short debate. But you have provided no evidence, as the thread requested, just statements of belief.

What evidence do you have, for this perception/definition of God?

If you can observe, measure, experiment on, and test what you can perceive and experience, then you have your evidence.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Seems to me that usfan has invited everyone to a food-fight with only one condition: each person attending has to bring their own food. No?

 

[SalixIncendium]

What do you mean by "everything immutable and mutable"? Are you talking about the universe?

In part. The observable universe is mutable.

 

[shmogie]

..prove or disprove whatever god or non god you want. I'm just trying to keep the debate generic.. not flooded with arguments about Zeus, Baal, bible quotes, and flying spaghetti monsters..

The ARGUMENTS & EVIDENCE, is the subject here, not specific beliefs.. but you can make any arguments you please.. i just hope to keep it topical. 'Ridicule of Christianity!', is another topic, and should have its own thread.

I'll put together some evidences i see, soon. I just wanted to open up the discussion.

A great book for evidence for God is ¨Cold Case Christianity¨. Written by a long time LAPD homicide detective ( the elite) who applies investigation techniques and the rules of evidence for determining the truth of the Gospels. Interestingly, he began his investigation as an atheist, became a Christian, resigned from the police force and became a pastor.

Since I worked in law enforcement and was a criminal investigator, I found the book outstanding

 

[usfan]

I'll provide some evidence FOR the existence of God, since the concept seems so foreign to everyone.

Human angst

There is no naturalistic explanation for this. It does not aid in our survival, or improve the species in any way. It is common throughout the human experience, traversing time, race, religion, and culture. It is a gnawing 'something' in man that hints and implies a spiritual connection.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

In part. The observable universe is mutable.

So what is the immutable?