1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Proof of Existence

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by dingdao, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,986
    Ratings:
    +1,093
    Religion:
    diversity
    2.1357596 is just over 2/3 Pi.

    I like no sugar added dutch apple from Shari's. And thank you.

    "Fresh Washington-grown Granny Smith apples, baked with a touch of cinnamon and covered with a layer of brown sugar crunchy crumble. No Sugar Added option available."

    Selection_040.png

    Dutch Apple – Shari's Cafe and Pies

    2.1357596 is also approx 370% of euler's constant... so maybe you were calling my joke, ummmm sleazy... but only sleazy in a joking friendly way.
     
  2. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    12,394
    Ratings:
    +8,388
    Religion:
    None

    Thanks for the pie,

    Have a bowl of apple apple crumble in fair exchange
    croppedimage733456-Blueberry-Apple-Crumble-with-Honey.jpg
    With blueberries.

    Nope not calling anything, just the extra percentage i thought your posts needed to exorcise the bot.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    4,189
    Ratings:
    +2,463
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    Ya got me!

    Okay, I confess: I'm really a Turing machine.
     
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,986
    Ratings:
    +1,093
    Religion:
    diversity
    Here is my final post in this thread: I have attached a video which I hope will push my not-bot-i-tude score to 100%. The video kinda sucks. And this is going to be embarrassing. it's approx. 5:50 seconds. And...

    let's get this over with.

    In the video I show that I am human because, I demonstrate the human emotion of embarrassment, and I show that I have in my possession non-digital collectables which an AI would not be able to assemble in the amount of time between the beginning of the test and now.



    This is not conclusive proof on its own. But taken collectively with my other pieces of evidence, IAMNOTBOT.

    What have I learned from this thread:

    1) The classic Turing Test is no longer valid because we now live in a world with Global Internet Connectivity where sharing ideas and self-made videos are easy to do. The original Turing Test was conducted over a text-only channel.
    2) A single proof does not exist that works for all people at all times. Proving not bot-i-tude takes time. And each piece of evidence is tailored for the listener by the speaker. This means each test encounter is unique.
    3) Pop Culture references are not valuable
    4) The best evidence comes from repeated obscure detailed intellectual, emotional, and-or humorous metaphors that remain on topic over the course of a series of posts that demonstrate detailed shared knowledge between the speaker and the listener that was obtained via deductive reasoning and intuition. ( thank you @sealchan)
    5) having a dirty mind also helps
     
    #104 dybmh, Mar 9, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    18,829
    Ratings:
    +7,285
    Religion:
    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist.
    Most enjoyable thread.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    322
    Ratings:
    +150
    Religion:
    Nominally Taoist
    99.97%
    Which is the level of confidence I was looking for.
    My answers:
    1. Original Knowledge i.e. Mad Girl's Love Song is actually about Dylan Thomas, not Mike. It's pretty much a documentary of her stalking him.
    2. A Research Paper using 5 or more sources. Actual format is not important.
     
  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,986
    Ratings:
    +1,093
    Religion:
    diversity
    Help me with the chameleon that can shave reference?
     
  8. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    322
    Ratings:
    +150
    Religion:
    Nominally Taoist
    The chameleon in reference is you. You seem to be more then you are letting on.
     
  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,986
    Ratings:
    +1,093
    Religion:
    diversity
    I think what you're observing is that I am very perceptive, intuitive, and expressive. And you're not wrong. I am more, but I would say, in most cases, I'm trying not to be "too much".

    And so I hold back, and try to blend in. So the chameleon reference fits.

    I like that you recognized that about me.

    Because now I know, you, @dingdao, are not a bot. ;)
     
  10. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,426
    Ratings:
    +1,393
    Religion:
    Christian
    Using images in an exchange of any type and demonstrating accurate recognition of various content within that image would further challenge a bot. This is because it evidences the individual as having a visual system resembling a human's.

    So how would you score my previous system with a key that is an image of, let's say...

    Google Image Result for https://www.davidbrassrarebooks.com/pictures/03999_3.jpg?v=1478033012

    ...where the initial exchange includes a discussion about a need to authenticate an identity in terms of visual and metaphorical references to the key-image.
     
  11. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    322
    Ratings:
    +150
    Religion:
    Nominally Taoist
    (Your not David Brass or a descendant of Joan Walsh?)

    On just the image alone, "Mary had a Little Lamb" does not jump out at me. Your operating on a shared cultural reference. If you can establish that connection, 95%.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    322
    Ratings:
    +150
    Religion:
    Nominally Taoist
    Thank You
     
  13. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,986
    Ratings:
    +1,093
    Religion:
    diversity
    It's the expression on Mary's face... that's the payload. That's the part AI would have trouble with. The picture is an abstract representation of the conversation. The conversation goes with the picture in a very abstract way.

    The conversation is about challenge/response. The expression on Mary's face and the expression on the lamb's face is also a challenge/response.

    @sealchan?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    322
    Ratings:
    +150
    Religion:
    Nominally Taoist
    NACK -- I don't see it.
     
  15. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,266
    Ratings:
    +952
    Religion:
    My Own
    People choosing to believe they are not conscious beings but mindless automatons are not being logically consistent. Self-awareness of our self-awareness is the first step from transitioning from a human doing to a human being.
     
  16. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,986
    Ratings:
    +1,093
    Religion:
    diversity
    HELO -- do you want me to explain it more?
     
  17. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,426
    Ratings:
    +1,393
    Religion:
    Christian
    Yes facial emotional expression is a good one although identifying photographed faces is something that automation seems to have made a lot of progress in.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    322
    Ratings:
    +150
    Religion:
    Nominally Taoist
    Please do.
     
  19. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,755
    Ratings:
    +540
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    Huh? How does that prove a person exists? Are you saying people, made by a Creator God, can themselves create?
     
  20. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,986
    Ratings:
    +1,093
    Religion:
    diversity
    In this scenario, @sealchan is attempting to prove to you, dingdao, that he is NOTABOT.

    Sealchan has proposed essentially a 2 factor shared key handshake protocol. The shared key is a very abstract metaphor connecting the first factor ( a text-based conversation ) with the second factor ( a seemingly unrelated 2d image ).

    The first factor of the handshake was a text-based conversation about how to prove IAMNOTBOT. Another way of looking at this conversation is: Sealchan is trying to tell you, trying to prove to you: "I am in your flock. I am not an OTHER."

    The second factor of the handshake was a picture titled Mary had a Little Lamb. In the nursery rhyme, "Mary had a little lamb, whose fleece was white as snow. everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go."

    The shared key is embedded in the content in the nursery rhyme and expression on Mary's face and on the lamb's face in the picture.

    Mary is looking down at the lamb, "Are you in my flock? Are you following me?"

    The lamb is looking up, answering "I AM in you flock. I AM following you"

    This is how the two factors are connected. The connection is the shared key. Sealchan is assuming you know the nursery rhyme and that you will be able to decrypt the intellectual emotional message conveyed in the picture.

    The picture represents a challenge/response handshake protocol between Mary and the Lamb. In this case, you, dingdao, are Mary. Sealchan is the lamb. You are asking Sealchan, "are you in my flock, or are you AI?" Sealchan is answering, "I am in your flock, I am not AI".

    In this case the metaphor was too abstract. In other words, the shared key was too deeply encrypted in the emotional / intellectual message of the picture.

    Your NACK (not acknowledged) means the shared key was too deeply encrypted, and you could not decipher it.

    Because of this, in order for Sealchan to continue towards proving that he ISNOTBOT he would either need to ramp down the encryption on the shared key or he would need to start the handshake over from the beginning.

    Examples:

    Sealchan could send additional different pictures all containing a similar theme, challenge/response, "I am in your flock. I am not OTHER." Each additional picture supporting the others until you, dingdao, deciphered the shared key common to all the pictures sent.

    Or

    Sealchan starts a new conversation with you. "dingdao, let's start over. What are you reading these days?" You, dingdao, respond, "Thud Hitchhiker's Guide ;)" Then sealchan sends you a picture:

    whale-picure.jpg

    The shared key is the abstract detailed shared knowledge of the book where the Space Whale falls from space and goes "thud".

    The shared key is encrypted / embedded in the humorous intentional misspelling of The as Thud.

    Thud HitchHikers guide, to an AI would probably be translated to "The Hitchhikers Guide" and Thud would be determined to be a typo. But it's actually the challenge in sealchan's proposed 2-factor shared key method for proving he ISNOTBOT. The challenge is, "Did you read this book? What do I mean by Thud?"

    Replying with the whale picture in the sky is the correct response to the challenge. The shared key is the detailed knowledge of the book.

    This is another example of demonstrating detailed shared knowledge thru abstract metaphor while staying on topic. The shared knowledge is embedded / encrypted in a picture that would be hard for an AI to mimic.

    Note: The encryption method for the two keys, "Am I in your flock" and "Did you read this book" are different.

    "Am I in your flock" is embedded in the emotional content in the picture.

    "Did you read this book" is embedded in the humorous intentional typo The >> Thud.

    Since you, dingdao, weren't able to decrypt the first shared key which was encrypted via emotional content; switching to a different encryption method, humorous content, would be a good tactic.
     
    #120 dybmh, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
Loading...