Proof Jesus said he is not God in atleast 3 Gospel accounts

[moorea944]

So "the Word" was God and you can't see the connection in verse 14 when "The Word was made flesh"?

Then you have to explain the many times Jesus is called God.

here are some of them:

• John 1:1 (granted I've already seen your explanation, but I think it falls short)
• Isaiah 9:6 (called mighty God)
• Hebrews 1:8 (the Son is called God)

Exactly.

We sinned and are corrupted. This is why Jesus came in the exact image of the Father to restore us again to the image of the Father.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)

This is just another reason why God needed/wanted to become a man. To restore or reconcile us again to Himself. God wants His children back.

Well I agree and disagree with you. I never said I disagreed with everything you said. Jesus pre-existed as God.

So you admit God was in Christ through His whole life? Good. That is correct in Colossians 1:18 and Colossians 2:8-9. We have no need of any other because we are complete in Him who is the head of all principality and power and all the fullness of God indwells Him bodily. Then He was given the name above all names and the only name whereby we must be saved.

Also He is literally the Word of God made flesh so we know He cannot fail as we read in Isaiah 55:11.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:48
I am that bread of life.

John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Psalm 34:8 (WEB)
8 Oh taste and see that Yahweh is good.
Blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

So to answer the question where did Jesus come from? He proceeded forth and came from the mouth of God. That is He is literally the Word of God made flesh the "bread of life". The "Alpha and Omega" which are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Letters spell words. This signifies Jesus comprises all the words of God. And indeed in the Hebrew I am told that Aleph/Tav is present in Genesis 1:1. So we see that the "Word" was literally with God in the beginning and "was God" also.

The Bible says it and I believe it. I don't try to explain it away or rationalize it as not being literal.

[So to answer the question where did Jesus come from? He proceeded forth and came from the mouth of God. That is He is literally the Word of God made flesh the "bread of life". The "Alpha and Omega" which are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Letters spell words. This signifies Jesus comprises all the words of God. And indeed in the Hebrew I am told that Aleph/Tav is present in Genesis 1:1. So we see that the "Word" was literally with God in the beginning and "was God" also.]

Ok, I"m only going to answer this one for now....

Can we say that Jesus is from God? Of course we can. He is from God. God created him in the womb of Mary.
Can we that Jesus lived in Heaven before his birth? No, because that did not happen. John was sent from God too. Does that mean that John was living in Heaven before his birth?

The "word" (LOGOS) was in heaven with God. The LOGOS was absolutely with God in the beginning. But it's not talking about Jesus living in Heaven before his birth. Jesus IS the word made flesh. Jesus is everything that God represents. And we have to remember that Jesus is NOT God, but he came in the "name of" God. He is the "image" of God.

Plus, God does not change into a man to come down to our level to fix things. That totally degrades our Creator. That's saying He cant do anything on his own, but only if he changes into a man and come down to our level.

And to say Jesus "literally" came from the mouth of God, not quit sure what your implying here. Wouldnt that bypass Mary? Or am I not understanding something... Because it was God's power or HS or the spirit of God and overshadowed Mary. God can speak and things can be done, just like creation. Are you implying something like that?

 

[LightofTruth]

[So to answer the question where did Jesus come from? He proceeded forth and came from the mouth of God. That is He is literally the Word of God made flesh the "bread of life". The "Alpha and Omega" which are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Letters spell words. This signifies Jesus comprises all the words of God. And indeed in the Hebrew I am told that Aleph/Tav is present in Genesis 1:1. So we see that the "Word" was literally with God in the beginning and "was God" also.]

Ok, I"m only going to answer this one for now....

Can we say that Jesus is from God? Of course we can. He is from God. God created him in the womb of Mary.
Can we that Jesus lived in Heaven before his birth? No, because that did not happen. John was sent from God too. Does that mean that John was living in Heaven before his birth?

The "word" (LOGOS) was in heaven with God. The LOGOS was absolutely with God in the beginning. But it's not talking about Jesus living in Heaven before his birth. Jesus IS the word made flesh. Jesus is everything that God represents. And we have to remember that Jesus is NOT God, but he came in the "name of" God. He is the "image" of God.

Plus, God does not change into a man to come down to our level to fix things. That totally degrades our Creator. That's saying He cant do anything on his own, but only if he changes into a man and come down to our level.

And to say Jesus "literally" came from the mouth of God, not quit sure what your implying here. Wouldnt that bypass Mary? Or am I not understanding something... Because it was God's power or HS or the spirit of God and overshadowed Mary. God can speak and things can be done, just like creation. Are you implying something like that?

Jesus has said that he has come in the name of his Father.The proper name of his Father is known as the tetragrammaton as represented by the four Hebrew letters יהוה.

Therefore, Jesus has come as YHVH (the Father). and not YHVH (the Father) coming as Jesus.

 

[moorea944]

Jesus has said that he has come in the name of his Father.The proper name of his Father is known as the tetragrammaton as represented by the four Hebrew letters יהוה.

Therefore, Jesus has come as YHVH (the Father). and not YHVH (the Father) coming as Jesus.

Absolutely, I totally agree. And that's another reason I dont use the name "Jehovah". That's a real bad translation. I remember awhile ago that archaeologists found a stone tablet in some Middle Eastern country. It spoke about the Children of Israel and their God, YHVH. Awesome find!!

Thanks for your post!!

 

[74x12]

Therefore, Jesus has come as YHVH (the Father). and not YHVH (the Father) coming as Jesus.

Mental gymnastics ...

 

[Muffled]

1. Have you examined John 17:3 along with 1 John 5:20?

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

2. Is God the only true? Or is God the only true God along with the Son of God?

3. Are we in the Son of God because he is the only true God or are we in the Son of God because God appointed him heir of all things and used him to make the worlds?

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

I believe I always examine anew because the Holy Spirit tends to reveal new things at times.

I believe it is both. John 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life

I believe You are in error. We are not in God. God is in those who have received Him.

 

[Muffled]

I can't make sense of your replies with the color/bold. I'd have to change it to black/plain to understand it....

I believe you may have overstated by calling yourself an artist. It is easy The brown answer corresponds to the brown statement and so on.

 

[Muffled]

It seems God was not alone because He used the angels to obey His commands and to do His will.

I believe I was referring to the concept that God is three persons which isn't the case. So Jesus did not exist until He was born. So even though it is true that it is still God in Jesus, Jesus is a companion to the Father and truthfully, God is the only one who could be a fit companion for Himself.

 

[Muffled]

The language is the same. Jesus is the son of the Father just as Isaac is the son of Abraham.
It's absurd to say that Jesus is the only begotten son if he is the same person as the one who is his father.
Father and son are never the same person. it's common sense..

I believe it is only common sense in worldly wisdom. Even though it didn't happen as fatherhood usually happens in the world, since God is everywhere then He can be in two different persons at the same time. In fact as the Paraclete, He can be in millions of people at the same time.

 

[Iymus]

I believe I always examine anew because the Holy Spirit tends to reveal new things at times.

John 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1. He told Thomas he is the path towards God our Father, with the way and the truth signifying the correct path.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I believe You are in error. We are not in God. God is in those who have received Him.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe you may have overstated by calling yourself an artist. It is easy The brown answer corresponds to the brown statement and so on.

I have vision issues that I see an eye doctor for. I have to blow up my screen so it makes the text even bigger. They said today (weirdly enough for this reply) I may be developing glaucoma and they are watching for it. The red, orange, pink (if I remember), and blue bold hurts my eyes. I also have to take extra time figuring what color goes to what comment. Unless I'm habitually having a long conversation with people on RF, which is usually short-lived, if I do reply to color-post, I'll decolor them so I can read it.

 

[Muffled]

I have vision issues that I see an eye doctor for. I have to blow up my screen so it makes the text even bigger. They said today (weirdly enough for this reply) I may be developing glaucoma and they are watching for it. The red, orange, pink (if I remember), and blue bold hurts my eyes. I also have to take extra time figuring what color goes to what comment. Unless I'm habitually having a long conversation with people on RF, which is usually short-lived, if I do reply to color-post, I'll decolor them so I can read it.

I believe I will adjust my posts for your benefit. Does bold help?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe I will adjust my posts for your benefit. Does bold help?

Thank you.

I don't want you to change your style for your posts in general; everyone has their post style. Just letting you know with me personally, I can't follow what you're saying. I appreciate it.

 

[sojourner]

Simple Equation #1.

God = Good
Jesus = Not Good
Jesus = Not God

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
--------------------------------------------------------

Simple Equation #2

God = Good
Father = Good
Father = God

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Col 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
------------------------------------------------------

Closing verses

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Except none of these explicitly says what you claim.

 

[Iymus]

Except none of these explicitly says what you claim.

Psa 119:104 KJV Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Isa 43:10 KJV Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 KJV I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Joh 5:42 KJV But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Joh 5:43 KJV I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 KJV How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

1Jn 4:14 KJV And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Act 5:31 KJV Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 KJV Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 13:3 KJV Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Joh 16:28 KJV I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Mat 7:21 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 14:24 KJV He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

[LightofTruth]

Mat 7:21 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

What Jesus taught was not his own, but HIS(God's) that sent him.

Isn't that interesting.

Is Jesus there speaking from his human nature as opposed to his God nature?

 

[Iymus]

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

What Jesus taught was not his own, but HIS(God's) that sent him.

Isn't that interesting.

Is Jesus there speaking from his human nature as opposed to his God nature?

Only God Nature is subjection unto the Father of spirits:

Mat 19:17 KJV And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jas 1:17 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Heb 12:9 KJV Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?Joh

12:50 KJV And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 5:44 KJV How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

 

[sojourner]

Psa 119:104 KJV Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Isa 43:10 KJV Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 KJV I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Joh 5:42 KJV But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Joh 5:43 KJV I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 KJV How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

1Jn 4:14 KJV And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Act 5:31 KJV Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 KJV Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 13:3 KJV Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Joh 16:28 KJV I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Mat 7:21 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 14:24 KJV He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

So... now you’re just throwing up a bunch of disparate texts against the wall to see what sticks? That’s not how exegesis works. None of these prove your point. None.

 

[Iymus]

So... now you’re just throwing up a bunch of disparate texts against the wall to see what sticks? That’s not how exegesis works. None of these prove your point. None.

1Sa 15:23 KJV For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Act 17:30 KJV And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

That’s not how exegesis works.

Psa 119:104 KJV Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.


Deu 6:4 KJV Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isa 43:10 KJV Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Act 15:18 KJV Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Mat 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Joh 4:34 KJV Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

 

[sojourner]

1Sa 15:23 KJV For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Act 17:30 KJV And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead

I guess you are... what a waste of bandwidth and a terrible way to honor the Bible.

Psa 119:104 KJV Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.


Deu 6:4 KJV Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isa 43:10 KJV Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Act 15:18 KJV Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Mat 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Joh 4:34 KJV Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me

Still not how exegesis works.

 

[Iymus]

Still not how exegesis works.

Ecc 12:13 KJV Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

1Jn 5:3 KJV For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.