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Featured Proof Jesus said he is not God in atleast 3 Gospel accounts

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Iymus, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely!!! Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection and eternal life.
    Thank you for your post!!
     
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  2. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Not quit sure what your saying here... Did you read my post wrong? I didnt say that God can die. And I never said that you can limit God.... You mentioned, "Nice try, but you cant limit God." I know that..... Did you read that in my post somewhere that I said that? Not sure where you going with this.....

    Sorry, maybe Im just not understanding you..... if so, then it's my bad...
     
  3. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    So based off your words, John 15:13 is now the foundation of the Gospel. God is also fully man because of John 15:13 and if he is not also fully man based off John 15:13 then the love of God is weak. Based off your interpretation of John 15:13 the Son is greater than the Father.

    Not only do you overlook what is friendship, you also overlook the foundational words or what is expedient from God's only begotten Son.


    Joh 15:13
    Joh 15:14
    Mat 23:9
    Joh 8:40
    Joh 7:17
    Joh 8:42
    Joh 10:29
    Joh 13:16
    Joh 14:28
    Jud 1:4

    Your word's seemingly turn the Grace of our God into lasciviousness as well as deny the only Lord God and also his anointed which is our lord who is lesser than Lord God and not the only true God.

    Yet you will say that I am the one who in speech limit God because I do not believe God died; that only babes can percieve this.
     
  4. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    1. Not according to what is expedient; Christ is not saying or implying he is God in that verse.

    1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

    Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

    Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

    2. Also discussed here
    "John 8:58" Jesus never said he is I Am That I Am
     
    #264 Iymus, Jan 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  5. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Good point. Also we have to remember that the gospel was also preached before Abraham. Everyone knew about a coming Messiah. Adam and Eve knew about someone to come that would take away the sins of the world. So Jesus had every right to say that before Abraham was, I am. How true that is.

    Jesus is NOT saying that he was actually here before Abraham. But people knew of a "coming Messiah" or someone to come.
     
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  6. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    My words seemingly have nothing to do with lasciviousness ... :confused:

    lascivious:
    inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd
    arousing sexual desire
    indicating sexual interest or expressive of lust or lewdness
     
  7. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say He was. It's because Light of truth thinks Jesus is only as old as his birthday. I'm pointing out that Jesus existed long before being born.
     
  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    It's because you think God can't be born as a human. That limits what God can do.
     
  9. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    1. If using the grace of our God through the gospel of Christ " Joh 15:13 " to imply God is weak; If he did not become fully man and lay down his life for man; Is not under the ungodliness and lasciviousness umbrella then I don't know what is. " Jud 1:4 "

    Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
    1. unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence

    2. If you are not using " John 8:58 " as a means to imply or say that Christ is Lord God the only true God then I stand corrected " Pro 15:10 "


    3. :expressionless:
     
  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I believe 100% that God did become a man to fulfill His own definition of the highest love and the love of a Shepherd. As the scriptures say

    My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3:18)

    So I believe God loves in deeds(actions). God doesn't just expect us to obey the scriptures but fulfills them also Himself.

    The fact is that God considers His people as a whole to be His bride. His wife. The new Jerusalem. He, from the beginning planned to express His love for her through the cross.

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)
     
  11. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    1. :expressionless:

    Mar 15:34

    Isa 53:10

    Joh 3:16

    Joh 3:17

    Joh 20:17

    Joh 16:28

    Joh 8:42

    Joh 13:3


    Joh 16:29
    Joh 16:30
    Joh 16:31

    2. This refers to Torah and Tanakh . To my knowledge God never expressed in Torah or Tanakh that he himself was going to die and resurrect for the sin of man and be some kind of high priest himself between Man and God. I don't recall this.
     
  12. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    1. Seems like you reject friendship of his only begotten son.

    Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
    Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

    Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

    Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

    Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

    2. The Torah says God is not a man and that is both metaphorical and literal but you using new testament to say otherwise and justify God dying.

    3.:expressionless:
     
  13. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    No... it's called knowing your God. There is no reason why our Creator would want to change into a human. God does not bring himself down to us, he wants us to bring ourselves up to him. But in a spiritual way. A way of thinking spiritually and not of the flesh.

    God does not change. Is there a verse that tells us that God changed into a man? Did someone tell you that? Just trying to think why anyone would ever think why our Heavenly Father would want to come down to earth and change into a man.
     
  14. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    But he didnt...... Why would you even think that? Is there a point of his pre-existance? Doesnt scripture tell us that he was born? The book of Hebrews tells us that the messiah had to be like us. Do you know why?

    If Jesus was here before his birth, then how come no one knew about it or was never told about it in the OT? Adam & Eve was never told that the "coming" Messiah was already here. Abraham, Moses, David, they were never told that. They knew of a coming Messiah. Moses was told that in Deut 18, David in 2 Sam 7, etc, etc...

    Hebrews 1... tells us that "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,"

    That verse would be written totally different if Jesus Pre-existed!!! Think about it. In you mind.... why do you want Jesus to pre-exist? Is there a reason for this? Just curious..........
     
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  15. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why people choose to make nonsense out of common sense language.Jesus is a son of Abraham. Therefore Abraham existed before Jesus. Sons don't exist before their fathers.
     
  16. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    Concerning the flesh yes.
     
  17. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    Concerning Jesus himself. He is one person. He is not one person outside of flesh and another person inside of flesh. Jesus himself was born and Jesus himself died. and Jesus himself was raised from the dead.
     
  18. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    Do you believe all sons of man are spirit and flesh?
     
  19. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    That depends on what you mean by the word "spirit".
     
  20. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    God created THE MAN from the dust of the ground and breathed into THE MAN the breath of life and THE MAN became a living soul.
    Man is basically DUST. He is a living soul only because he has the breath of life. The breath of life can be referred to as "spirit of life". see Gen 6:17, Gen 7:15 , Gen 7:22

    When the spirit or breath of life leaves THE MAN, THE MAN returns to what he was before he became a living soul.....DUST.

    That's why God told Adam that he was DUST and to DUST he would return. God said, "YOU are DUST and to DUST YOU shall return.
     
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