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Proof for Freewill (and, thus, disproof of Atheism) is notion of "Today"

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
We got to know about the conservation of information from first hand by a physical problem. The problem was found by Dr. Steven Hawking and is called the "Information loss paradox in Black Holes". According to my own calculations, the Black Hole is indeed a hole in spacetime: the event horizon is the edge of our reality, and falling matter [including the related information] simply vanishes into the Absolute Nothing.

In Quantum Mechanics, the Law of Conservation of Information is known. The amount of information that is recorded in the [wave function of] nature does not change over time.

This means that all of Shakespeare's poems could have been read before the poet's birth, if we would have been there with the necessary devices called "readers of information".

However, if we would have read his poems before Shakespeare's birth, we would have destroyed the poet in this act of reading. Therefore, there would never have been such a Shakespeare with his poems. But then we would not be able to read this information about Shakespeare. The way out of this contradiction is: we cannot read the information about the poems before the birth of the poet. So, the poet is the source of poems.

Conclusion: there must be a free-will of people, as people are truly free. Through this channel new information is coming in. However, looking from the spacetime perspective, the actions of people with free-will have already happened. As an example, in the next year I will be dead or alive, and the right option is already written into the spacetime map. Therefore, even having proven the existence of free-will, we have not disproven the Omniscient Being. This is because of the way we look at the spacetime continuum: there is no scientific reason why we see on the calendar the year 2020 and not 2022. Why? Because there is problem with the definition of "today":

1. "Today" is 2020, but the last year's "Today" was 2019, so it is undecidable.

2. "Today" is what you see on the calendar today. But this is tautology.

Conclusion: Today's biggest problem is "Today" itself.

More is in the file attached:
 

Attachments

  • omniscienceJesus.pdf
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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
We got to know about the conservation of information from first hand by a physical problem. The problem was found by Dr. Steven Hawking and is called the "Information loss paradox in Black Holes". According to my own calculations, the Black Hole is indeed a hole in spacetime: the event horizon is the edge of our reality, and falling matter [including the related information] simply vanishes into the Absolute Nothing.
This is pure speculations based on skewed perceptions of how galaxies works. There is NO "black hole" in galaxies, just "funnels of formations" much like the holes in Hurricanes.

Your attached file about an "Omniscient Being" is a term which derives from the astronomical-mythical description of a human male looking figure in the (night) Sky which seemingly rotates around the Earth celestial pole, thus "seeing everything in the Sky" - as illustrated here - The Greatest God in Heaven

Besides this, I really cannot find any arguments on the issues of "free will"? Or is it just me?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
We got to know about the conservation of information from first hand by a physical problem. The problem was found by Dr. Steven Hawking and is called the "Information loss paradox in Black Holes". According to my own calculations, the Black Hole is indeed a hole in spacetime: the event horizon is the edge of our reality, and falling matter [including the related information] simply vanishes into the Absolute Nothing.

In Quantum Mechanics, the Law of Conservation of Information is known. The amount of information that is recorded in the [wave function of] nature does not change over time.

This means that all of Shakespeare's poems could have been read before the poet's birth, if we would have been there with the necessary devices called "readers of information".

However, if we would have read his poems before Shakespeare's birth, we would have destroyed the poet in this act of reading. Therefore, there would never have been such a Shakespeare with his poems. But then we would not be able to read this information about Shakespeare. The way out of this contradiction is: we cannot read the information about the poems before the birth of the poet. So, the poet is the source of poems.

Conclusion: there must be a free-will of people, as people are truly free. Through this channel new information is coming in. However, looking from the spacetime perspective, the actions of people with free-will have already happened. As an example, in the next year I will be dead or alive, and the right option is already written into the spacetime map. Therefore, even having proven the existence of free-will, we have not disproven the Omniscient Being. This is because of the way we look at the spacetime continuum: there is no scientific reason why we see on the calendar the year 2020 and not 2022. Why? Because there is problem with the definition of "today":

1. "Today" is 2020, but the last year's "Today" was 2019, so it is undecidable.

2. "Today" is what you see on the calendar today. But this is tautology.

Conclusion: Today's biggest problem is "Today" itself.

More is in the file attached:
So far as I know there is no "law of conservation of information". This notion seems to be made up.

In fact, since information is often considered to be a kind of inverse of entropy, and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics tells us entropy tends to increase in a closed system, thermodynamics suggests that information is not conserved but is progressively lost.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
So far as I know there is no "law of conservation of information". This notion seems to be made up.
If so, this statement/postulation fits nicely to the loss of everything according to the strange idea that everything disappears in a "black hole" which also is just made up.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
@questfortruth

From your title
Proof for Freewill (and, thus, disproof of Atheism) is notion of "Today"

Can you please explain how having the free will to either believe or disbelieve gods is a disproof of atheism...

Or was that just click bait to the OP? Which incidentally seems to be based on half grasped ideas, resulting in made up hocus pocus and wild leaps of imagination.



 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
We got to know about the conservation of information from first hand by a physical problem. The problem was found by Dr. Steven Hawking and is called the "Information loss paradox in Black Holes". According to my own calculations, the Black Hole is indeed a hole in spacetime: the event horizon is the edge of our reality, and falling matter [including the related information] simply vanishes into the Absolute Nothing.

In Quantum Mechanics, the Law of Conservation of Information is known. The amount of information that is recorded in the [wave function of] nature does not change over time.

This means that all of Shakespeare's poems could have been read before the poet's birth, if we would have been there with the necessary devices called "readers of information".

However, if we would have read his poems before Shakespeare's birth, we would have destroyed the poet in this act of reading. Therefore, there would never have been such a Shakespeare with his poems. But then we would not be able to read this information about Shakespeare. The way out of this contradiction is: we cannot read the information about the poems before the birth of the poet. So, the poet is the source of poems.

Neglecting for a moment the details of quantum mechanics that makes this rather absurd - let's just say you could read the entire state of the universe (or at least the relevant parts, if we could manage with some subset) in order to predict the future and read Shakespeare's plays in advance. Where are you going to store the information and analyse it? Whatever you choose would actually be part of the universe and be a highly relevant part, so it would have to contain a full model of itself and its predictions. Perhaps you can see a tiny problem here?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Significant part of Atheistic Community rely on Freewill: Atheism = No Freewill, holds for them. Would you like video about it?

I would love to see what religious zealot's have to say about a subject they have no compensation about, i haven't had a good laugh since i read your OP
 

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
Neglecting for a moment the details of quantum mechanics that makes this rather absurd - let's just say you could read the entire state of the universe (or at least the relevant parts, if we could manage with some subset) in order to predict the future and read Shakespeare's plays in advance. Where are you going to store the information and analyse it? Whatever you choose would actually be part of the universe and be a highly relevant part, so it would have to contain a full model of itself and its predictions. Perhaps you can see a tiny problem here?
Yes, in QM the reading of information destroys the carrier of information.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Neglecting for a moment the details of quantum mechanics that makes this rather absurd - let's just say you could read the entire state of the universe (or at least the relevant parts, if we could manage with some subset) in order to predict the future and read Shakespeare's plays in advance. Where are you going to store the information and analyse it? Whatever you choose would actually be part of the universe and be a highly relevant part, so it would have to contain a full model of itself and its predictions. Perhaps you can see a tiny problem here?

Yes, in QM the reading of information destroys the carrier of information.

0/10. I said "Neglecting for a moment the details of quantum mechanics...". Want another go?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member

Is that the Mike Adams
Mike Adams (aka Health Ranger) is the founder and owner of Natural News [website]

The Natural News that is reported by Wikipedia..?
Natural News is a conspiracy theory and fake news website. The website sells various dietary supplements, promotes alternative medicine, tendentious nutrition and health claims, fake news, and espouses various conspiracy theories.

I will also add he is a religious quack and slimeball

"Mike Adams adds religious nuttery to his armamentarium as he slimes Patrick Swayze posthumously".
Also by wikipedia

Right, i get where you are coming from and i was right in my previous posts. Thanks for sharing


So i then clicked the video to get the notice, video not available.

I don't know why, maybe its banned in europe for spouting ignorant nonsense?
 
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questfortruth

Well-Known Member
0/10. I said "Neglecting for a moment the details of quantum mechanics...". Want another go?
The poet's poems in the time before poet's birth would be recorded in the inner of the sperm and egg. So, reading these tiny objects with powerful instruments would kill them. So, QM is right by saying: reading destroys.
 

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
Is that the Mike Adams
Mike Adams (aka Health Ranger) is the founder and owner of Natural News [website]

The Natural News that is reported by Wikipedia..?
Natural News is a conspiracy theory and fake news website. The website sells various dietary supplements, promotes alternative medicine, tendentious nutrition and health claims, fake news, and espouses various conspiracy theories.

I will also add he is a religious quack and slimeball

"Mike Adams adds religious nuttery to his armamentarium as he slimes Patrick Swayze posthumously".
Also by wikipedia

Right, i get where you are coming from and i was right in my previous posts. Thanks for sharing
No person, and no theistic religion can be absolute nonsense. Hardly is something absolute in this fallen world. So, while listening to Mike, separate truth from mistakes.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Significant part of Atheistic Community rely on Freewill: Atheism = No Freewill, holds for them. Would you like video about it?
This simply doesn't matter. Atheists are entirely individuals. There is no "core doctrine" subscribed to by atheists. The one and only tenet they need share is a lack of belief in god(s). Beyond that, an atheist can believe in or not believe in anything else, and it doesn't affect their atheism.

Therefore, it makes no difference what "the majority of atheists believe" about a particular topic. When you encounter an individual atheist and want to know what they think about a particular topic, you need to ask them, and their answer pertains to themselves and only perhaps to other atheists. But to find out what those others atheists think on the topic, you'd have to go and ask them also.

I understand that this is a foreign idea to you - because you are so used to the spiritual-group-think you find yourself stuck in. Nasty business if you ask me. But you need to realize that when you set out to "disprove atheism" (whatever this means) you aren't doing anything at all toward that end by referencing something that some arbitrary percentage of atheists may agree with.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
No person, and no theistic religion can be absolute nonsense. Hardly is something absolute in this fallen world. So, while listening to Mike, separate truth from mistakes.

Oh right so its you who decides what is nonsense and what is not (or what fits your cognitive dissonance and what does not). It would be much better and he'd have more credibility if he didn't lie to start with
 
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