Professional athlete etc & varna

[Ekanta]

Hi everyone...

Just out of curiosity, Which of the 4 varnas would a professional athlete fit into?

And which, a professional musician?
---
18.42. Serenity, self-restraint, austerity, purity, forgiveness and also uprightness, knowledge, realisation and belief in God are the duties of the Brahmanas, born of (their own) nature.
18.43. Prowess, splendour, firmness, dexterity and also not fleeing from battle, generosity and lordliness are the duties of Kshatriyas, born of (their own) nature.
18.44. Agriculture, cattle-rearing and trade are the duties of the Vaishya (merchant class), born of (their own) nature; and action consisting of service is the duty of the Sudra (servant class), born of (their own) nature.
---

 

[Gaura Priya]

I personally feel that an athlete fits best as a kshatriya, and a musician as a brahmana.

With athleticism comes alot of, well, force and aggression, while the arts and music have traditionally been a mark of mental intelligence and sweetness.

(Of course, I still say that everyone is shudra in this age, and that the idea of varna is gone in Kali-yuga according to my Vaishnava beliefs, but I digress... )

 

[Riverwolf]

I would agree that athelets would be kshatrias and musicians (and other artists) would be brahmanas.

 

[Ekanta]

I was thinking along those lines also, at least in the overall picture.
But then again, it has also become a business... some music is mostly about image, clothes, dance, look etc.

 

[Onkara]

I was thinking along those lines also, at least in the overall picture.
But then again, it has also become a business... some music is mostly about image, clothes, dance, look etc.

My personal opinion would lean towards this too. Popstars are Vaishya or Sudra, as their goal is not divine.

To be Brahmanas they would need to compose and sing the glory of God.

Of course these are gross generalisations and I have nothing to support this except opinion.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

There's no such thing as professional musicians or athletes back then. My family comes from a caste/jathi of traditional drummers. This wasn't their primary occupation though. They had mostly farmed and owned land.

Maybe I don't really understand the question though. If you're trying to match up traits, then theoretically I can argue that a musician encompasses all characteristics of the varnas. A musician needs to have the knowledge like the brahmanas, dexterity and firmness of a kshatriya (especially if they play an instrument or dance), and servile attitude towards the art like the shudras.

 

[ratikala]

dear ekanta ,

Hi everyone...

Just out of curiosity, Which of the 4 varnas would a professional athlete fit into?

And which, a professional musician?
---
18.42. Serenity, self-restraint, austerity, purity, forgiveness and also uprightness, knowledge, realisation and belief in God are the duties of the Brahmanas, born of (their own) nature.
18.43. Prowess, splendour, firmness, dexterity and also not fleeing from battle, generosity and lordliness are the duties of Kshatriyas, born of (their own) nature.
18.44. Agriculture, cattle-rearing and trade are the duties of the Vaishya (merchant class), born of (their own) nature; and action consisting of service is the duty of the Sudra (servant class), born of (their own) nature.
---

I would have to agree with onkara on this one and say Vaishya or sudra , as on the whole a profesional athlete allthough posessing prowess , splendor and dexterity , the athletes motivation and competitive nature is not that of the rightious ruler , they are not following their profession as a duty to ovesee the wellbeing of their subjects there may well be charity involved but it is not the primary function of an athlete .

and the musician , unless primarily concerned with either glorifying the lord through bhajan , kirtan or prayer or propogating godiliness and wisdom , seeing his art as service in the glorification of the lord and dedicating his life and art solely to the lord , then he woud not fit in to the brahmana caste ,
if an artist in any sphere is comercial in nature then he is vaishya or sudra

but in truth one is born into a caste or varna , it is then a question of doing ones duty within ones born caste , one canot necisarily choose ones varna by choosing an ocupation .

Ardhanariswar
There's no such thing as professional musicians or athletes back then. My family comes from a caste/jathi of traditional drummers. This wasn't their primary occupation though. They had mostly farmed and owned land.

ardhanariswar explains perfectly that a musician may be of any caste as he might be born into the vaishya or sudra caste and aditionaly have a tradition of an artistic or musical nature .

 

[Valjean]

Athletics is a Kshatriya discipline, surely, but I don't know about musicians.
True, Krishna Himself was a flautist, but how many Brahmanas today do you find in the musical varnas?

 

[ratikala]

Athletics is a Kshatriya discipline, surely, but I don't know about musicians.
True, Krishna Himself was a flautist, but how many Brahmanas today do you find in the musical varnas?

dear seyorni ,

what do you think born of their own nature means ?
and what does lordliness mean ?

18.43. Prowess, splendour, firmness, dexterity and also not fleeing from battle, generosity and lordliness are the duties of Kshatriyas, born of (their own) nature.

 

[Valjean]

Ah, we're getting into a semantics or semiotics discussion. These usually go nowhere even when the interlocutors are well versed in the texts being discussed -- which I'm not.
I you want to run with this, though, Born of their Nature seems an assertion of dharma, probably in relation to varna. "Lordliness" is probably a linguistic can of worms relating to 'qualities of Kshatriyas' that will go in circles till it finally flows down the drain.

 

[ratikala]

dear seyorni ,

Ah, we're getting into a semantics or semiotics discussion. These usually go nowhere even when the interlocutors are well versed in the texts being discussed -- which I'm not.
I you want to run with this, though, Born of their Nature seems an assertion of dharma, probably in relation to varna. "Lordliness" is probably a linguistic can of worms relating to 'qualities of Kshatriyas' that will go in circles till it finally flows down the drain.

semantics ...study of meaning.....I thought that is what we were here for

so prehaps we should cut the big words and and concentrate on the verse in question

18.43. Prowess, splendour, firmness, dexterity and also not fleeing from battle, generosity and lordliness are the duties of Kshatriyas, born of (their own) nature.

glossary definition for Kasatriya .... a warrrior or prince ; member of the ruling classes .

of aritocratic status .....i.e. lordliness , in vedic culture that implies duty responcibility to justly govern , to justly rule .

prowess , splendor , firmness and dexterity refer to just rule and to the defence of just rule in battle , not competitive athletics ! not professional athletics !

sorry I had to answer your question for you but as you declined ....

Born of their Nature seems an assertion of dharma, probably in relation to varna.

prehaps someone else would like to hae a go at this one ???