Problems with Raelism part 1of 3

[Salvador]

Oumuamua may indeed be Alien Light Sail A weird object named Oumuamua is of an exosolar origin as evident by its high velocity and trajectory as it sailed through our solar system. Oumuamua apparently isn't a comet, because Oumuamua seemingly lacks a comet tail. Furthermore, Oumuamua has a fixed rotation period that would not occur if it were propelled by the out gassing of any volatile. Oumuamua's elongated shape and high Albedo is unlike that of any known asteroids in our solar system. When Oumuamua passed by the Sun, solar radiation pressure apparently accelerated Oumuamua precisely as how a solar light sail measuring a few millimeters of thickness and few hundred meters length would have been accelerated by the Sun's radiation pressure. Oumuamua is estimated to be within the range of size and it has an elongated shape as would be expected of a light sail spacecraft following Oumuamua's motion and acceleration as it went by the Sun.

Reference: Astrophysics > Earth and Planetary Astrophysics
Could Solar Radiation Pressure Explain 'Oumuamua's Peculiar Acceleration?
Shmuel Bialy, Abraham Loeb
(Submitted on 26 Oct 2018 (v1), last revised 8 Nov 2018 (this version, v4))

[1810.11490] Could Solar Radiation Pressure Explain 'Oumuamua's Peculiar Acceleration?

 

[Ponder This]

for larger beings we are considered disease and not creation

How do you know that? Or is this just Raelian dogma?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Nobody can say how far back genetic coding was invented by extraterrestrial intelligence before arriving on Earth at the beginning of life on Earth approximately 4 billion years ago.

When each of almost all of these 145 "alien" genes first appeared in the human gene pool has yet to be determined.

One of these "alien" genes, the one for "RH negative blood" likely appeared suddenly in the human genome around 35,000 years ago.

Origin Theories of the Rare Rh-Negative Blood Factor

God could have done it too though, and I've provided evidence that the dinosaurs weren't Extra-Terrestrial created.

Post #16-21 are possible. I have done that mathematical problem in less precision before and found that if we lived in the bloodstream of a gigantic being we could spread lives many times throughout the being in its lifetime. Will look at that.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Go your way in peace child.

I forgot that you don't like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' leadership didn't I? Old men...

 

[robocop (actually)]

How do you know that? Or is this just Raelian dogma?

That is what the Raelian's believe and I am using it to argue against them. I am saying friendly creators wouldn't be able to take so long to create, although I have to deal with Salvador's answers now.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Oumuamua may indeed be Alien Light Sail A weird object named Oumuamua is of an exosolar origin as evident by its high velocity and trajectory as it sailed through our solar system. Oumuamua apparently isn't a comet, because Oumuamua seemingly lacks a comet tail. Furthermore, Oumuamua has a fixed rotation period that would not occur if it were propelled by the out gassing of any volatile. Oumuamua's elongated shape and high Albedo is unlike that of any known asteroids in our solar system. When Oumuamua passed by the Sun, solar radiation pressure apparently accelerated Oumuamua precisely as how a solar light sail measuring a few millimeters of thickness and few hundred meters length would have been accelerated by the Sun's radiation pressure. Oumuamua is estimated to be within the range of size and it has an elongated shape as would be expected of a light sail spacecraft following Oumuamua's motion and acceleration as it went by the Sun.

Reference: Astrophysics > Earth and Planetary Astrophysics
Could Solar Radiation Pressure Explain 'Oumuamua's Peculiar Acceleration?
Shmuel Bialy, Abraham Loeb
(Submitted on 26 Oct 2018 (v1), last revised 8 Nov 2018 (this version, v4))

[1810.11490] Could Solar Radiation Pressure Explain 'Oumuamua's Peculiar Acceleration?

Salvador, in all your panspermia arguments I didn't see a timeframe that this would take. I am trying to argue that Extra-Terrestrials didn't create life on Earth while directly on it and if the timeframe would take too long they wouldn't. I am arguing this because I am arguing against Raelism.

Oumuamua is either a panspermia engine or a habitat for Extra-Terrestrials, either way causing a problem.

But actually I know that you're right about the possibility of panspermia. And if we were in the bloodstream of a gigantic living organism we could do it. I'd like to ask you, why would Extra-Terrestrials do panspermia?

 

[robocop (actually)]

"

Salvador, we are questioning Extra-Terrestrials coming to a planet and creating life and Extra-Terrestrials sending out packets of ready-to-go life throughout space.

I still say with (a) why would they wait around so long?

With (b) I ask the same thing. Why would the packets take hundreds of millions of years like on Earth to decompress into an ecosystem? It seems machinery could observe Earth, configure life accordingly, and create it in a short time! Granted it would take a long time to do the first creation, but not that of the dinosaurs.

Also, you are very friendly!

 

[Salvador]

but for larger beings we are considered disease and not creation.

I understand the Raelian belief that humans can be genetically improved by way of human cloning, or other genetic engineering techniques like CRISPR gene editing. This genome editing technique should be used to delete faulty genetic mutations and insert biologically healthy genes for the spawning of a biologically superior human race. Of course, designer babies with favorable selected genetic traits will improve our the overall health and intelligence of our human species.

Rather than opposing the Raelian way of improving the biological fitness of the human race, we should embrace the Raelian way for improving humankind. ...

 

[Salvador]

Salvador, in all your panspermia arguments I didn't see a timeframe that this would take. I am trying to argue that Extra-Terrestrials didn't create life on Earth while directly on it and if the timeframe would take too long they wouldn't. I am arguing this because I am arguing against Raelism.

Oumuamua is either a panspermia engine or a habitat for Extra-Terrestrials, either way causing a problem.

But actually I know that you're right about the possibility of panspermia. And if we were in the bloodstream of a gigantic living organism we could do it. I'd like to ask you, why would Extra-Terrestrials do panspermia?

If directed panspermia could be done at the speed of Oumuarmua's travel, which is 1/2000th the speed of light; then, neighboring planetary systems could be seeded with life within 10,000 years from the launch of a directed panspermia vessel. 10,000 years is actually a very small amount of time relative to the cosmological time frame.

"Directed panspermia aims to secure and expand our family of organic gene/protein life. It may be motivated by the desire to perpetuate the common genetic heritage of all terrestrial life. This motivation was formulated as biotic ethics, that value the common gene/protein patterns of organic life," ....

Reference: Mautner, Michael N. (2009). "Life-centered ethics and the human future in space"(PDF). Bioethics. 23 (8): 433–440. doi:10.1111/j.1467-8519.2008.00688.x. PMID 19077128.

"...and as panbiotic ethics that aim to secure and expand life in the universe. " ...

References:

1. Mautner, Michael N. (1995). "Directed Panspermia. 2. Technological Advances Toward Seeding Other Solar Systems, and the Foundations of Panbiotic Ethics". J. British Interplanetary Soc. 48: 435–440.
2. Mautner, Michael N. (1997). "Directed panspermia. 3. Strategies and motivation for seeding star-forming clouds" (PDF). J. British Interplanetary Soc. 50: 93–102.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I forgot that you don't like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' leadership didn't I? Old men...

Not going to fully explain it, but local Mormons and Missionary Sisters saved my life, literally. I was going to suicide but they brought love and hope into my life, and for that I am grateful.

Later, after I was Baptized, the SLC leadership decided to put the thumb screws to me, and abusive things were done to me. Rather than put up with that, I resigned the Church. So, I love the Church but think the leaders are out to lunch.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I understand the Raelian belief that humans can be genetically improved by way of human cloning, or other genetic engineering techniques like CRISPR gene editing. This genome editing technique should be used to delete faulty genetic mutations and insert biologically healthy genes for the spawning of a biologically superior human race. Of course, designer babies with favorable selected genetic traits will improve our the overall health and intelligence of our human species.

Rather than opposing the Raelian way of improving the biological fitness of the human race, we should embrace the Raelian way for improving humankind. ...

Oh yeah, transhumanism all the way! And Raelians are at the bottom pushing it up the hill! We had it under US President Bill Clinton. There are transhuman factions in all religions. But the Raelians claim that they will only have about 144,000 members on Earth at the critical time of the Extra-Terrestrial revisitation (including Jesus Christ) in 2025-2035.

So we need more than just Raelians to get this off the ground! Not everyone is going to embrace Raelism (as just discussed), so we need to push it both inside and outside the Raelian movement. Both doing it and preparing people for it and preparing to do it responsibly.

If directed panspermia could be done at the speed of Oumuarmua's travel, which is 1/2000th the speed of light; then, neighboring planetary systems could be seeded with life within 10,000 years from the launch of a directed panspermia vessel. 10,000 years is actually a very small amount of time relative to the cosmological time frame.

"Directed panspermia aims to secure and expand our family of organic gene/protein life. It may be motivated by the desire to perpetuate the common genetic heritage of all terrestrial life. This motivation was formulated as biotic ethics, that value the common gene/protein patterns of organic life," ....

Reference: Mautner, Michael N. (2009). "Life-centered ethics and the human future in space"(PDF). Bioethics. 23 (8): 433–440. doi:10.1111/j.1467-8519.2008.00688.x. PMID 19077128.

"...and as panbiotic ethics that aim to secure and expand life in the universe. " ...

References:

1. Mautner, Michael N. (1995). "Directed Panspermia. 2. Technological Advances Toward Seeding Other Solar Systems, and the Foundations of Panbiotic Ethics". J. British Interplanetary Soc. 48: 435–440.
2. Mautner, Michael N. (1997). "Directed panspermia. 3. Strategies and motivation for seeding star-forming clouds" (PDF). J. British Interplanetary Soc. 50: 93–102.

That's great, but still why hundreds of millions of years in dinosaur creation? We know this because occasionally a fossil will be like a lava deposit which we can date, next to layers of geographic rock to confirm the date.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Not going to fully explain it, but local Mormons and Missionary Sisters saved my life, literally. I was going to suicide but they brought love and hope into my life, and for that I am grateful.

Later, after I was Baptized, the SLC leadership decided to put the thumb screws to me, and abusive things were done to me. Rather than put up with that, I resigned the Church. So, I love the Church but think the leaders are out to lunch.

I live in what is known as happy valley. It is the most Republican city with over 100,000 in the nation full of college students in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but not everyone is fully converted and a lot of terrible stuff does go down. Lots of marijuana. I had a girlfriend recently who had been raped 5 times. Yes there is bad stuff and its unfortunate, so keep pushing to distinguish the good from the bad like dividing the light from the dark.

 

[Salvador]

Oh yeah, transhumanism all the way! And Raelians are at the bottom pushing it up the hill! We had it under US President Bill Clinton. There are transhuman factions in all religions. But the Raelians claim that they will only have about 144,000 members on Earth at the critical time of the Extra-Terrestrial revisitation (including Jesus Christ) in 2025-2035.

So we need more than just Raelians to get this off the ground! Not everyone is going to embrace Raelism (as just discussed), so we need to push it both inside and outside the Raelian movement. Both doing it and preparing people for it and preparing to do it responsibly.

That's great, but still why hundreds of millions of years in dinosaur creation? We know this because occasionally a fossil will be like a lava deposit which we can date, next to layers of geographic rock to confirm the date.

"A 25,000-year-old human-like"..., who could have been a robot resembling a human being, "extraterrestrial inside the spacecraft named Yahweh said that Elohim was the name that primitive people of Earth called members of his extraterrestrial race—who were seen as "those who came from the sky". Yahweh explained that Earth was originally void of life, with thick clouds and shallow seas, but the Elohim came, broke apart the clouds, exposed the seas to sunlight, built a continent, and synthesized a global ecosystem."

Reference: Raël, Intelligent Design, pp. 11–15.

See: Solar astronomy, terraformation, nanotechnology, and genetic engineering allowed Elohim to adapt life to Earth's thermal and chemical makeup

There is no divinely revealed time when the extraterrestrial race, whom Raelians refer to as the "Elohim", had either seeded life on Earth or perhaps genetically modified life on Earth. There is no divinely revealed time measured from when life was seeded or genetically modified by the ""Elohim" to the space-time slice now where we presently exist.

The extraterrestrial race, whom the Raelians refer to as the Elohim, will visibly make their presence known to us human Earthlings when our human Earthling race is way more peaceful, thoughtful and caring; if and whenever that special time shall be.

 

[robocop (actually)]

"A 25,000-year-old human-like"..., who could have been a robot resembling a human being, "extraterrestrial inside the spacecraft named Yahweh said that Elohim was the name that primitive people of Earth called members of his extraterrestrial race—who were seen as "those who came from the sky". Yahweh explained that Earth was originally void of life, with thick clouds and shallow seas, but the Elohim came, broke apart the clouds, exposed the seas to sunlight, built a continent, and synthesized a global ecosystem."

Reference: Raël, Intelligent Design, pp. 11–15.

See: Solar astronomy, terraformation, nanotechnology, and genetic engineering allowed Elohim to adapt life to Earth's thermal and chemical makeup

There is no divinely revealed time when the extraterrestrial race, whom Raelians refer to as the "Elohim", had either seeded life on Earth or perhaps genetically modified life on Earth. There is no divinely revealed time measured from when life was seeded or genetically modified by the ""Elohim" to the space-time slice now where we presently exist.

The extraterrestrial race, whom the Raelians refer to as the Elohim, will visibly make their presence known to us human Earthlings when our human Earthling race is way more peaceful, thoughtful and caring; if and whenever that special time shall be.

Good morning Salvador,

I never thought of the idea that YHWH could have been a robot. That's a good idea but I think I can show you it still runs into the same problem.

With what we learn from both Raelism and science, there are basically two possibilities. Either all the creation was created in the 25,000 years or there were previous creations. Either way you run into problems of dating fossils. Dead lava meets with rock meets with fossils, so we actually do know that there was creation for hundreds of millions of years if Raelism is true.

So yes, robots could have stuck around for hundreds of millions of years to create a previous epoch. The question is, why would they need to?

 

[viole]

This article can explain my beliefs better:
The Father - By Brian K. Ashton

Basically what makes sense to me is that we are gods who can become like God under God. Jesus paid the price for our sins to a perfect Father so that we can bridge this gap. The gap is infinite in the case of murder.

Jesus paid the price for sin?

That was a bargain, I suppose.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Salvador]

Good morning Salvador,

I never thought of the idea that YHWH could have been a robot. That's a good idea but I think I can show you it still runs into the same problem.

With what we learn from both Raelism and science, there are basically two possibilities. Either all the creation was created in the 25,000 years or there were previous creations. Either way you run into problems of dating fossils. Dead lava meets with rock meets with fossils, so we actually do know that there was creation for hundreds of millions of years if Raelism is true.

So yes, robots could have stuck around for hundreds of millions of years to create a previous epoch. The question is, why would they need to?

Thanks, robocop, you've made excellent points. Perhaps, not all life was literally influenced by the Elohim. They may have only bio-engineered particular life forms. I'm not sure how flexible the Raelian beliefs are regarding intelligent design and creation, but I'll try to find out more about this for us.

I'm not a Raelian, but many of my beliefs are similar with Raelianism; therefore, I'm very interested in this religion. Thank you for sparking my interest in U.F.O religion. ...

 

[robocop (actually)]

Thanks, robocop, you've made excellent points. Perhaps, not all life was literally influenced by the Elohim. They may have only bio-engineered particular life forms. I'm not sure how flexible the Raelian beliefs are regarding intelligent design and creation, but I'll try to find out more about this for us.

I'm not a Raelian, but many of my beliefs are similar with Raelianism; therefore, I'm very interested in this religion. Thank you for sparking my interest in U.F.O religion. ...

Best of luck to you, and I have no problem with you being Raelian or just about anything. I was Raelian... I was everything.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Thanks, robocop, you've made excellent points. Perhaps, not all life was literally influenced by the Elohim. They may have only bio-engineered particular life forms. I'm not sure how flexible the Raelian beliefs are regarding intelligent design and creation, but I'll try to find out more about this for us.

I'm not a Raelian, but many of my beliefs are similar with Raelianism; therefore, I'm very interested in this religion. Thank you for sparking my interest in U.F.O religion. ...

Remember, "the Lord's word is sharper than a two-edged sword."

 

[ajay0]

Let's cut to the chase. Raelians believe Extra-Terrestrials created life on Earth and all of our religions and we will discuss creating life.

This is possible, but it does not necessarily mean that the Extraterrestrials associated with the Raelians were the creators. They may be acting as creators to pose dominance over human beings and earth , and indulging in propaganda.

 

[robocop (actually)]

This is possible, but it does not necessarily mean that the Extraterrestrials associated with the Raelians were the creators. They may be acting as creators to pose dominance over human beings and earth , and indulging in propaganda.

How is it possible please? Robots could wait around 1 billion years for the atmosphere, than 3 billion years just to get us gas in the tank, and the Raelians believe we still only have a small chance of survival which I can demonstrate myself. But why not just give us alternative energy since it's better anyhow?

Only an infinitely patient God would want everything to be so spiritually perfect so that we can choose decisions and still make it with opposition and adversity that gets in our way of survival! God is interested in every individual; extra-terrestrials mostly care just about the human race as a whole.