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Featured Problems with Raelism part 1of 3

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by robocop (actually), Jan 13, 2019.

  1. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Let's cut to the chase. Raelians believe Extra-Terrestrials created life on Earth and all of our religions and we will discuss creating life.

    They say the most recent creation was in the past 25,000 years. That's fine, but they say other creations could have gone on earlier on earth. Atomic isotope levels have only been measured over the last 100 years, so perhaps their measurements changed together drastically at different times. It's kind of like measuring how fast a child is growing and extrapolating wrong.

    The problem is that all these rock layers suggest that Earth is really old. Volcanoes date with atomic isotope levels and agree with the rocks ages.

    So you have creation periods that must have been long that the Extra-Terrestrials would not want to stick around for.

    I still believe time is inversely proportional to the size of the life it passes through, but for larger beings we are considered disease and not creation.
     
  2. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I was newly Baptized once by the Stake leaders, then the real leaders got wind of it and made an end to me.

    I'd concur with your beliefs in a limited way, and if read while sober, I think that most Abrahamic Old Books point to a Creator who can go anywhere he wants to, can function in 11 dimensions, and is more than "Flesh and Bone". Most of the found Archeological specimens point to this Creator and those with him. Unfortunately, the Religious and the Scientists don't get along, so they don't realize the true state of existence.
     
  3. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    The human genome has 145 "alien" genes that can't be linked to any of our distant past ancestors; these genes are in our genome from the process of horizontal gene transfer. These 145 "alien" genes, which nobody inherited from any distant past terrestrial ancestor, might have been the result of genetic engineering by advanced extraterrestrial intelligence.

    Reference:

    Expression of multiple horizontally acquired genes is a hallmark of both vertebrate and invertebrate genomes
    Genome Biology201516:50
    Expression of multiple horizontally acquired genes is a hallmark of both vertebrate and invertebrate genomes
    • Received: 25 September 2014
    • Accepted: 4 February 2015
    • Published: 13 March 2015





    There is now compelling evidence extraterrestrial intelligence has left its/their mark in our genetic code as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us descendants of our cosmic ancestor(s) with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

    Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov. Icarus, May 2013,Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code

    The significance of the semantic message "037" embedded in our genetic coding is well-explained in the following journal articles: .
    Biosystems Volume 70, Issue 3, August 2003, Pages 187-209 "Arithmetic inside the universal genetic code" Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4703000662

    NeuroQuantology | December 2011 | Vol 9 | Issue 4 | Page 702-715 Masic, Natasa Nested Properties of shCherbak’s PQ 037 and (Biological) Coding/Computing Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Propertiesof shCherbak’s Prime Quantum 037 as a Base of (Biological) Coding/Computing
    http://Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Properties


    Exactly who/what left its/their mark in our genetic coding might not ever get determined by anybody presently bound to Earth. The search for our cosmic relatives and cosmic common ancestor likely then needs to be done with advanced space exploration.

    Whether there is extraterrestrial intelligent life with whom we Earthlings share a common cosmic ancestor would be testable with advanced space probes capable of interstellar space travel and DNA probing of extraterrestrial life forms.

     
    #3 Salvador, Jan 13, 2019
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  4. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    The Holy Ghost can dwell in us, so doesn't haven't a body of flesh and bone. The Father and Son are our God for different reasons and we were created in their image plus we can look at Jesus, and because the Holy Ghost also has to do with their relationship they too have bodies of flesh and bone. We can also infer this by how our bodies seem capable of doing anything; God wouldn't need more than a body. Give me some time and I can do better.
     
  5. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    I have seen many UFOs too, and I think I've seen an Extra-Terrestrial, but you missed two points.

    (1) These genes could have been added by a God. Semantic patterns in DNA could be evidence of the same.
    (2) How would extra-terrestrials hang around long enough to create all of these creation epochs in history?

    If you are ignoring the dinosaur creations as evolution and all but human creation as evolution too, why all the intermediate humans? Where do these "alien genes" start exactly?
     
    #5 robocop (actually), Jan 13, 2019
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  6. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Because of the enormous energy requirements for massive bodies to travel an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, the vast distances required for interstellar space, and the natural limits imposed on the life span of complex life forms, I don't believe we Earthlings have likely been visited by biological extraterrestrial beings; however, there is inconclusive and weak evidence we Earthlings have been probed by extraterrestrial designed drones piloted by extraterrestrial-made machine intelligence or extraterrestrial designed robots.

     
  7. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    OK no problem.
     
  8. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    This article can explain my beliefs better:
    The Father - By Brian K. Ashton

    Basically what makes sense to me is that we are gods who can become like God under God. Jesus paid the price for our sins to a perfect Father so that we can bridge this gap. The gap is infinite in the case of murder.
     
    #8 robocop (actually), Jan 13, 2019
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  9. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    I heard that scientists recently concluded homo sapiens came from one single pair. But still, my argument that these "alien genes" could have come from God holds. Then I pointed out problems with Extra-Terrestrials sticking around too long.
     
  10. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Go your way in peace child.
     
  11. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    And we are in the position to name the errors of the ancients ??? And Huumans becoming Gods does not occur for a very long time.
     
  12. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Your web site does not work.
     
  13. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    So you are saying I'm irresponsible?

    What errors are you referring too? It does take a while.
     
  14. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    It was theoretically wrong so I deleted it.

    I fixed the status message. Thank you for pointing that out.
     
  15. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry we have some tension between us. I've got to go to sleep.
     
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  16. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Nobody can say how far back genetic coding was invented by extraterrestrial intelligence before arriving on Earth at the beginning of life on Earth approximately 4 billion years ago.

    When each of almost all of these 145 "alien" genes first appeared in the human gene pool has yet to be determined.

    One of these "alien" genes, the one for "RH negative blood" likely appeared suddenly in the human genome around 35,000 years ago.

    Origin Theories of the Rare Rh-Negative Blood Factor

     
    #16 Salvador, Jan 13, 2019
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  17. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Good night ...sleep well...TTYL....:)
     
  18. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    If we define God as the Creator of Life, then yes, some Earthlings might with advanced interstellar space propulsion technology be like God by spreading life to other planets.

    Some Earthlings might aim encapsulated microbial life forms ..." at nearby young planetary systems (with) accretion discs and signs of comets and planets. More suitable targets may be identified by space telescopes... that will identify nearby star systems with habitable astronomical objects. Alternatively, directed panspermia may aim at star-forming interstellar clouds ... that contains clusters of new stars too young to originate local life (425 infrared-emitting young stars aged 100,000 to a million years). Such clouds contain zones with various densities (diffuse cloud < dark fragment < dense core < protostellar condensation < accretion disc) that could selectively capture panspermia capsules of various sizes."

    Reference: Mezger, P. G. B. F. Burke, J. H. Rahe and E. E. Roettger, eds. "The search for protostars using millimetre/submillimeter dust emission as a tracer". Planetary Systems: Formation, Evolution and Detection: 208–220.

    "Habitable astronomical objects or habitable zones about nearby stars may be targeted by large (10 kg) missions where microbial capsules are bundled and shielded. Upon arrival, microbial capsules in the payload may be dispersed in orbit for capture by planets. Alternatively, small microbial capsules may be sent in large swarms to habitable planets, protoplanetary discs, or zones of various density in interstellar clouds. The microbial swarm provides minimal shielding but does not require high precision targeting, especially when aiming at large interstellar clouds."

    Reference: Mautner, Michael N. (2000). Seeding the Universe with Life: Securing Our Cosmological Future (PDF). Washington D. C.: Legacy Books (http://www.amazon.com). ISBN 047600330X.

    "Panspermia missions should deliver microorganisms that can grow in the new habitats. They may be sent in 10^−10 kg, 60 μm diameter capsules that allow intact atmospheric entry at the target planets, each containing 100,000 diverse microorganisms suited to various environments. Both for bundled large mass missions and microbial capsule swarms, solar sails may provide the most simple propulsion for interstellar transit. Spherical sails will avoid orientation control both at launch and at deceleration at the targets."

    Reference: Vulpetti, G.; Johnson, L.; Matloff, G. L. (2008). Solar Sails : A Novel Approach to Interplanetary Flight. New York: Springer. ISBN 978-0-387-34404-1.
     
    #18 Salvador, Jan 13, 2019
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  19. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    "For bundled shielded missions to nearby star systems, solar sails with thicknesses of 10^−7 m and areal densities of 0.0001 kg/m2 seem feasible, and sail/payload mass ratios of 10:1 will allow exit velocities near the maximum possible for such sails. Sails with about 540 m radius and area of 106 m2 can impart 10 kg payloads with interstellar cruise velocities of 0.0005 c (1.5x10^5 m/s) when launched from 1 au (astronomical unit). At this speed, voyage to the Alpha PsA star will last 50,000 y, and to the Rho Opiuchus cloud, 824,000 years.

    At the targets, the microbial payload would decompose into 1011 (100 billion) 30 µm capsules to increase the probability of capture. In the swarm strategy to protoplanetary discs and interstellar clouds, 1 mm radius, 4.2x10^−6 kg microbial capsules are launched from 1 au using sails of 4.2x10^−5 kg with radius of 0.37 m and area of 0.42 m2 to achieve cruising speeds of 0.0005 c. At the target, each capsule decomposes into 4,000 delivery microcapsules of 10^−10 kg and of 30 micrometer radius that allow intact entry to planetary atmospheres."

    Reference: Anders, E. (1989). "Prebiotic organic matter from comets and asteroids". Nature. 342 (6247): 255–257. Bibcode:1989Natur.342..255A. doi:10.1038/342255a0.

    "For missions that do not encounter dense gas zones, such as interstellar transit to mature planets or to habitable zones about stars, the microcapsules can be launched directly from 1 au using 10^−9 kg sails of 1.8 mm radius to achieve velocities of 0.0005 c to be decelerated by radiation pressure for capture at the targets. The 1 mm and 30 micrometer radius vehicles and payloads are needed in large numbers for both the bundled and swarm missions. These capsules and the miniature sails for swarm missions can be mass manufactured readily.

    The panspermia vehicles would be aimed at moving targets whose locations at the time of arrival must be predicted. This can be calculated using their measured proper motions, their distances, and the cruising speeds of the vehicles. The positional uncertainty and size of the target object then allow estimating the probability that the panspermia vehicles will arrive at their targets. The positional uncertainty δy (m) of the target at arrival time is given by equation (1), where α(p) is the resolution of proper motion of the target object (arcsec/year), d is the distance from the Earth(m) and v is the velocity of the vehicle (m/s)"

    Reference: Mautner, Michael N. Directed Panspermia. 3. Strategies and Motivations for Seeding Star-Forming Clouds. J. British Interplanetary Soc. 1997, 50, 93-102

    δy = 1.5×10−13 αp(d2/v)

    Given the positional uncertainty, the vehicles may be launched with a scatter in a circle about the predicted position of the target. The probability Ptarget for a capsule to hit the target area with radius rtarget (m) is the given by the ratio of the targeting scatter and the target area.

    Ptarget = Atarget/π(δy)2 = 4.4×10^25 rtarget2v2/(αp2d4)

    To apply these equations, the precision of astrometry of star proper motion of 0.00001 arcsec/year, and the solar sail vehicle velocity of 0.0005 c (1.5 × 10^5 m/s) may be expected within a few decades. For a chosen planetary system, the area Atarget may be the width of the habitable zone, while for interstellar clouds, it may be the sizes of the various density zones of the cloud.

    Solar sail missions to Sun-like stars can decelerate by radiation pressure in reverse dynamics of the launch. The sails must be properly oriented at arrival, but orientation control may be avoided using spherical sails. The vehicles must approach the target Sun-like stars at radial distances similar to the launch, about 1 au. After the vehicles are captured in orbit, the microbial capsules may be dispersed in a ring orbiting the star, some within the gravitational capture zone of planets. Missions to accretion discs of planets and to star-forming clouds will decelerate by viscous drag at the rate dv/dt as determined by equation (3), where v is the velocity, rc the radius of the spherical capsule, ρc is density of the capsule and ρm is the density of the medium.

    dv/dt = -(3v2/2ρc) ρ m/rc

    A vehicle entering the cloud with a velocity of 0.0005 c (1.5 × 10^5 m/s) will be captured when decelerated to 2,000 m/s, the typical speed of grains in the cloud. The size of the capsules can be designed to stop at zones with various densities in the interstellar cloud. Simulations show that a 35 micron radius capsule will be captured in a dense core, and a 1 mm radius capsule in a protostellar condensation in the cloud. As for approach to accretion discs about stars, a millimetre size capsule entering the 1000 km thick disc face at 0.0005 c will be captured at 100 km into the disc. Therefore, 1 mm sized objects may be the best for seeding protoplanetary discs about new stars and protostellar condensations in interstellar clouds."

    Reference: Mautner, Michael N. (1997). "Directed panspermia. 3. Strategies and motivation for seeding star-forming clouds" (PDF). J. British Interplanetary Soc. 50: 93–102.


    The captured panspermia capsules will mix with dust. A fraction of the dust and a proportional fraction of the captured capsules will be delivered to astronomical objects. Dispersing the payload into delivery microcapsules will increase the chance that some will be delivered to habitable objects. Particles of 0.6 - 60 micron radius can remain cold enough to preserve organic matter during atmospheric entry to planets or moons."

    Reference: Anders, E. (1989). "Prebiotic organic matter from comets and asteroids". Nature. 342 (6247): 255–257. Bibcode:1989Natur.342..255A. doi:10.1038/342255a0.

    "Accordingly, each 1 mm, 4.2 ×10^−6 kg capsule captured in the viscous medium can be dispersed into 42,000 delivery microcapsules of 30 micron radius, each weighing 10^−10 kg and containing 100,000 microbes. These objects will not be ejected from the dust cloud by radiation pressure from the star, and will remain mixed with the dust."

    Reference: Morrison, D. (1977). "Sizes and albedos of the larger asteroids". Comets, Asteroids and Meteorites: Interrelations, Evolution and Origins, A. H. Delsemme, ed., U. of Toledo Press: 177–183.

    " A fraction of the dust, containing the captured microbial capsules, will be captured by planets or moons, or captured in comets and delivered by them later to planets. The probability of capture, Pcapture, can be estimated from similar processes, such as the capture of interplanetary dust particles by planets and moons in our Solar System, where 10^−5 of the Zodiacal cloud maintained by comet ablation, and also a similar fraction of asteroid fragments, is collected by the Earth."

    Reference: Weatherill, G. W. (1977). "Fragmentation of asteroids and delivery of fragments to Earth". Comets, Asteroids and Meteorites: Interrelations, Evolution and Origins, A. H. Delsemme, ed., U. of Toledo Press: 283–291.

    "The probability of capture of an initially launched capsule by a planet (or astronomical object) Pplanet is given by the equation below, where Ptarget is the probability that the capsule reaches the target accretion disc or cloud zone, and Pcapture is the probability of capture from this zone by a planet.

    Pplanet = Ptarget × Pcapture

    The probability Pplanet depends on the mixing ratio of the capsules with the dust and on the fraction of the dust delivered to planets. These variables can be estimated for capture in planetary accretion discs or in various zones in the interstellar cloud."

    After determining the composition of chosen meteorites, astroecologists performed laboratory experiments that suggest that many colonizing microorganisms and some plants could obtain most of their chemical nutrients from asteroid and cometary materials. However, the scientists noted that phosphate (PO4) and nitrate (NO3–N) critically limit nutrition to many terrestrial lifeforms. For successful missions, enough biomass must be launched and captured for a reasonable chance to initiate life at the target astronomical object. An optimistic requirement is the capture by the planet of 100 capsules with 100,000 microorganisms each, for a total of 10 million organisms with a total biomass of 10^−8 kg.

    "The required biomass to launch for a successful mission is given by following equation. mbiomass (kg) = 10^−8 / Pplanet Using the above equations for Ptarget with transit velocities of 0.0005 c, the known distances to the targets, and the masses of the dust in the target regions then allows calculating the biomass that needs to be launched for probable success. With these parameters, as little as 1 gram of biomass (10^12 microorganisms) could seed Alpha PsA and 4.5 gram could seed Beta Pictoris. More biomass needs to be launched to the Rho Ophiuchi cloud complex, mainly because its larger distance. A biomass on the order of 300 tons would need to be launched to seed a protostellar condensation or an accretion disc, but two hundred kilograms would be sufficient to seed a young stellar object in the Rho Ophiuchi cloud complex.

    Consequently, as long as the required physical range of tolerance are met (e.g.: growth temperature, cosmic radiation shielding, atmosphere and gravity), lifeforms viable on Earth may be chemically nourished by watery asteroid and planetary materials in this and other planetary systems."

    Reference: Mautner, Michael N. (2002). "Planetary bioresources and astroecology. 1. Planetary microcosm bioessays of Martian and meteorite materials: soluble electrolytes, nutrients, and algal and plant responses" (PDF). Icarus. 158: 72–86. Bibcode:2002Icar..158...72M. doi:10.1006/icar.2002.6841.
     
    #19 Salvador, Jan 13, 2019
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  20. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    "The seeding organisms need to survive and multiply in the target environments and establish a viable biosphere. Some of the new branches of life may develop intelligent beings who will further expand life in the galaxy. The messenger microorganisms may find diverse environments, requiring extremophile microorganisms with a range of tolerances, including thermophile (high temperature), psychrophile (low temperature), acidophile (high acidity), halophile (high salinity), oligotroph (low nutrient concentration), xerophile (dry environments) and radioresistant (high radiation tolerance) microorganisms. Genetic engineering may produce polyextremophile microorganisms with several tolerances. The target atmospheres will probably lack oxygen, so the colonizers should include anaerobic microorganisms. Colonizing anaerobic cyanobacteria may later establish atmospheric oxygen that is needed for higher evolution, as it happened on Earth. Aerobic organisms in the biological payload may be delivered to the astronomical objects later when the conditions are right, by comets that captured and preserved the capsules.

    The development of eukaryote microorganisms was a major bottleneck to higher evolution on Earth. Including eukaryote microorganisms in the payload can bypass this barrier. Multicellular organisms are even more desirable, but being much heavier than bacteria, fewer can be sent. Hardy tardigrades (water-bears) may be suitable but they are similar to arthropods and would lead to insects. The body-plan of rotifers could lead to higher animals, if the rotifers can be hardened to survive interstellar transit.

    Microorganisms or capsules captured in the accretion disc can be captured along with the dust into asteroids. During aqueous alteration the asteroids contain water, inorganic salts and organics, and astroecology experiments with meteorites showed that algae, bacteria, fungi and plant cultures can grow in the asteroids in these media."

    Reference: Mautner, Michael N. (2002). "Planetary resources and astroecology. Planetary microcosm models of asteroid and meteorite interiors: electrolyte solutions and microbial growth. Implications for space populations and panspermia" (PDF). Astrobiology. 2 (1): 59–76. Bibcode:2002AsBio...2...59M. doi:10.1089/153110702753621349. PMID 12449855.

    "Microorganisms can then spread in the accreting solar nebula, and will be delivered to planets in comets and in asteroids. The microorganisms can grow on nutrients in the carrier comets and asteroids in the aqueous planetary environments, until they adapt to the local environments and nutrients on the planets."

    Reference: Olsson-Francis, Karen; Cockell, Charles S. (2010). "Use of cyanobacteria for in-situ resource use in space applications". Planetary and Space Science. 58 (10): 1279–1285. Bibcode:2010P&SS...58.1279O. doi:10.1016/j.pss.2010.05.005.

    "Significantly, panspermia missions can be launched by present or near-future technologies. However, more advanced technologies may be also used when these become available. The biological aspects of directed panspermia may be improved by genetic engineering to produce hardy polyextremophile microorganisms and multicellular organisms, suitable to diverse astronomical objects environments. Hardy polyextremophile anaerobic multicellular eukaryots with high radiation resistance, that can form a self-sustaining ecosystem with cyanobacteria, would combine ideally the features needed for survival and higher evolution.

    For advanced missions, ion thrusters or solar sails using beam-powered propulsion accelerated by Earth-based lasers can achieve speeds up to 0.01 c (3 x 10^6 m/s). Robots may provide in-course navigation, may control the reviving of the frozen microbes periodically during transit to repair radiation damage, and may also choose suitable targets. These propulsion methods and robotics are under development.

    Microbial payloads may be also planted on hyperbolic comets bound for interstellar space. This strategy follows the mechanisms of natural panspermia by comets, as suggested by Hoyle and Wikramasinghe."

    Reference: Hoyle, F.; Wickramasinghe, C. (1978). Lifecloud: The Origin of Life in the Universe. London: J. M. Dent and Sons.

    "The microorganisms would be frozen in the comets at interstellar temperatures of a few kelvins and protected from radiation for eons. It is unlikely that an ejected comet will be captured in another planetary system, but the probability can be increased by allowing the microbes to multiply during warm perihelion approach to the Sun, then fragmenting the comet. A 1 km radius comet would yield 4.2 x 10^12 one-kg seeded fragments, and rotating the comet would eject these shielded icy objects in random directions into the galaxy. This increases a trillion-fold the probability of capture in another planetary system, compared with transport by a single comet. Such manipulation of comets is a speculative long-term prospect."

    Reference: Mautner, Michael N. (2000). Seeding the Universe with Life: Securing Our Cosmological Future (PDF). Washington D. C.: Legacy Books (http://www.amazon.com). ISBN 047600330X. Mautner, Michael N. (1995). "Directed Panspermia. 2. Technological Advances Toward Seeding Other Solar Systems, and the Foundations of Panbiotic Ethics". J. British Interplanetary Soc. 48: 435–440. Mautner, Michael N. (1997). "Directed panspermia. 3. Strategies and motivation for seeding star-forming clouds" (PDF). J. British Interplanetary Soc. 50: 93–102.
     
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