Problems with Devil Worship ?

[Nic_Italiano]

OK, even most Satanists dislike 'Devil Worship' and fair enough, ita completely ridiculous if one is doing it simply for trend or attention.
But think about it - Before all the rumours originated about Satan being such an 'evil' figure, wasnt Satan/Lucifer just another god who nobody had a problem with?
If memory serves, The Satanic Panic (?) was in the 80s, and was simply propaganda created by Christian preists - IF memory serves. Please try not to mind that if it is wrong.
What Im getting at is, that if everyone once considered Satan/Lucifer as normal and not as some evil lunatic set out to wipe out huamnity and bring suffering - whats wrong with worshipping Satan or Lucifer?
Thats close enough to Traditional Satanism, but even Traditional Satanists sometimes refuse that.

Nic
(please excuse any spelling errors)

 

[Darkdale]

Many great and wonderful gods were destroyed and turned into demons and devils by the Christian church. It's what they do. or... at least, did, back when we were allowed to worship other gods besides the judeo-christian one. Thank god for the new so-called separation between church and state. sort of; if I die, or you die fighting for our country, we can't put Thor's Hammer, or an inverted pentagram or even a regular pentagram on our casket or tomb, but Christians and Jews and Muslims all get to engrave theirs with their religious symbols. It's just good old fashioned religious bigotry.

 

[Faint]

When was "Satan" not known as an evil figure? If you're refering to "Lucifer", that term predates Christianity as part of Greek/Roman mythology. Lucifer is a translation two Latin words meaning "light-bearer", and had to do with Venus and the Morning Star (or sometimes, Prometheus).

Meanwhile, on the subject of Satanism, CNN seems to find it necessary to cite the religion as the reason some stupid 16 year old beat a woman to death. (see article: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/21/vitale.suspect/index.html ). "Another student remembered him in junior high school drawing a pentagram on the ground with chalk and dancing around it with other students." Can anyone explain how that is possibly relevant?

 

[Darkdale]

Satan Look up Satan at Dictionary.com
proper name of the supreme evil spirit in Christianity, O.E. Satan, from L.L. Satan (in Vulgate, in O.T. only), from Gk. Satanas, from Heb. satan "adversary, one who plots against another," from satan "to show enmity to, oppose, plot against," from root s-t-n "one who opposes, obstructs, or acts as an adversary." In Septuagint (Gk.) usually translated as diabolos "slanderer," lit. "one who throws (something) across" the path of another (see devil), though epiboulos "plotter" is used once.

"In biblical sources the Hebrew term the satan describes an adversarial role. It is not the name of a particular character. Although Hebrew storytellers as early as the sixth century B.C.E. occasionally introduced a supernatural character whom they called the satan, what they meant was any one of the angels sent by God for the specific purpose of blocking or obstructing human activity." [Elaine Pagels, "The Origin of Satan," 1995]

Satanic "pertaining to Satan" is first recorded 1667 (in "Paradise Lost"); meaning "diabolical" is from 1793. Satanism "worship of Satan" dates from 1896, with ref. to France, where it was said to be active at that time; Satanist is attested from 1559, applied by their enemies to Protestant sects.

From The online etymology dictionary

 

[Faint]

Interesting. Thanks Darkdale. So the term Satan does predate Christianity.

 

[Ðanisty]

I think it depends on how you define worship. To bow down and offer submission to Satan or Lucifer would simply go against what Satanism and Luciferianism is about. However, if you define worship as respect, admiration, and acknowledgement, then there is no real reason that worship would be a problem. I'm a theistic Luciferian and I respect, admire, and acknowledge Lucifer, but I am hesitant to claim worship of Lucifer because the assumption by most people would be that I submit to him. I do no such thing.

 

[Devilnl]

As a real Satanist I can say that any person who "worships the Devil" is not a Satanist but is a perverse Christian playing bad boy. Just an inverse, silly little Christian. The Devil is an individualist who walks the plains alone. He wouldn't want a person to worship him, and if someone does . . . well lets just say he thinks that their an absolute moron. Satanism did not exist until 1966 except for in the minds of hysterical Christians and propagandists who wanted to slaughter those who opposed them.

As for Luciferians . . . what is that? I don't think there is actually any Luciferian religion aside from a few websites that pop up once in a while saying, "We're Luciferians, hoy hoy, we worship the Devil, doi."

 

[Devilnl]

In my profile there is a link to my brand new blog and my first post on there addresses the entire concept of the Satanic Panic. I'm currently writing the second part. Please check it out.

 

[Ðanisty]

As a real Satanist I can say that any person who "worships the Devil" is not a Satanist but is a perverse Christian playing bad boy. Just an inverse, silly little Christian. The Devil is an individualist who walks the plains alone. He wouldn't want a person to worship him, and if someone does . . . well lets just say he thinks that their an absolute moron. Satanism did not exist until 1966 except for in the minds of hysterical Christians and propagandists who wanted to slaughter those who opposed them.

Oh, you're one of them. That's a shame. The fact is that there are many kinds of Satanists. The Church of Satan is only one approach to it. I know a number of theistic Satanists and not one of them "worships" Satan and 90% of them don't see Satan as the devil of the Christian bible, so no, they are not inverse Christians.

As for Luciferians . . . what is that? I don't think there is actually any Luciferian religion aside from a few websites that pop up once in a while saying, "We're Luciferians, hoy hoy, we worship the Devil, doi."

How many websites make a religion? I bet there's more websites on the net for Luciferianism than for Seventh Day Adventists. I fail to see what websites have to do with a belief being a religion. My guess is that you've been exposed to Aaron Donahue's site (or sites that repeat what he's said). He's a nutjob and frankly I don't know any Luciferians that associate with him or his ideas. Educate yourself about these topics...or at least tame your ego when it comes to things you don't know anything about.

 

[Devilnl]

I don't want to educate myself about those people. Their not Satanists. The Church of Satan was here first. Those people do not have a right to believe what they do, and do not have a right to their opinions. As far as I'm concerned they don't have a right to breathe my air and drink my water. Who the hell are you talking about?

Anyway. You don't know anything. You're the nutjob. Why don't you do research?

 

[Ðanisty]

And thank you so much for pointing out why practitioners of the LHP have to struggle to get any respect. Looks like I won this one by default.

 

[Rejected]

Danisty, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about Aaron Donahue, that’s someone I've been interested in for some time. Have you read his father's break down of the Book of the Law? Also could you expand a little on your particular brand of luciferianism? I'm afraid I’m not much versed on all the different 'denominations' -for lack of a better word.

 

[Ðanisty]

Danisty, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about Aaron Donahue, that’s someone I've been interested in for some time. Have you read his father's break down of the Book of the Law? Also could you expand a little on your particular brand of luciferianism? I'm afraid I’m not much versed on all the different 'denominations' -for lack of a better word.

I'd be happy to do so sometime this weekend. Right now, my husband needs the computer for work.

 

[Ðanisty]

Danisty, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about Aaron Donahue, that’s someone I've been interested in for some time. Have you read his father's break down of the Book of the Law?

What I know of Aaron Donahue is just from browsing his websites. I'm sorry to say that I think he's completely insane. I don't believe there is anything whatsoever to his predictions and the fact that he claims he can help mankind yet refuses to do so is not particularly Luciferian. It means that in my book he is either 1) full of crap 2) a jerk or 3) both. I think the bottom line is that Aaron Donahue is a con artist.

Also could you expand a little on your particular brand of luciferianism? I'm afraid I’m not much versed on all the different 'denominations' -for lack of a better word.

I'm not sure exactly what you want to know...lol. I'm a theist. I believe Lucifer is a real entity (specifically an angel). I believe that what transpired in the Bible is as true as it can be. Obviously the earth is more than a few thousand years old, etc. but for the most part, I take the story as history written from the other perspective. There is no history written from Lucifer's perspective. Or, at least, there isn't anymore. I share a lot of ideas with Gnostics, actually. So, if you know of anything about gnosticism, it may be helpful for you to think of Lucifer as an representation of Sophia. If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them. I'm much better at that than just writing randomly about Luciferianisim. I'm afraid I'll just keep rambling. The basics are this: Lucifer isn't evil, he's humanity's friend, he sacrificed all to help us.

 

[Rejected]

As far a Aaron Donahue goes he has done considerable work with Ex-CIA personnel fron the Stargate operation and has repeatedly demonstrated his abilities in remote viewing. and I'm talking about real people, not the goetic demons. his lottery results seem a little hit-and-miss but I dont see how his extra-terrestrial orgin theory is less valid than any others.

And with your brand of Luciferianism, and correct me if I'm wrong - you basically beleive in the general Xtian mythos, only choose to see the story from the other side, that Lucifer was justified in his rebellion?

 

[Ðanisty]

As far a Aaron Donahue goes he has done considerable work with Ex-CIA personnel fron the Stargate operation and has repeatedly demonstrated his abilities in remote viewing. and I'm talking about real people, not the goetic demons. his lottery results seem a little hit-and-miss but I dont see how his extra-terrestrial orgin theory is less valid than any others.

Well, I don't personally buy it...sorry. It doesn't seem even a little bit believable to me. Care to address the part where is refuses to help mankind even though he claims he can? That may make him a fine person in your book, but it's not very Luciferian. Honestly, I wish he'd just leave Luciferianism alone and develop his own "thing."

Here's a thread on OccultForums dealing with Donahue and I think you'll get the general impression most LHPers (at least on that forum and really they are the ones I respect) feel about him:
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=18667&highlight=aaron+donahue

A friend of mine also had this to say:

Aaron donahue is a basic remote viewer,pathetic magician,and con artist extroidinare.He is trying to take credit for predicting the harsh weather,the obvious bacterial evolution to follow,and repeating such phrases as "there is only one key"and other SUGGESTIONS desighned to make a few listners with no experience of themselves feel guilty and loyal to him for one purpose=money.He has actually said that those who send him donations will be spriritually blessed by lucifer,and,that he is the only person on the planet closest to lucifer,and the sad list goes on and on.He talks about his mastery of nutrition,and how he probably be around when he is 200,and in reality he is dying,and close to the end.Literally.******* pathetic loser sucking up presious resorces,while at the same time condeming the weak and poor as doing such.But as Bardon said,"I dont condem pretenders,they condem themselves."Indeed.

And with your brand of Luciferianism, and correct me if I'm wrong - you basically beleive in the general Xtian mythos, only choose to see the story from the other side, that Lucifer was justified in his rebellion?

Essentially, yes. There is more to it than that, but that pretty much covers the basics. I believe Lucifer transcends Christianity though. The Lucifer figure is found in many different religions including Greek mythology and Sumerian mythology. This is no surprise to me as I see Christianity as an evolution from older religions anyway.

 

[Pardus]

I see similarities between my patron god and what danisty has a patron.

The destroyer of tyranny who lives by a code but dismisses the traditional sense of honor.

 

[Ðanisty]

I see similarities between my patron god and what danisty has a patron.

The destroyer of tyranny who lives by a code but dismisses the traditional sense of honor.

If you don't mind me asking, who is your patron god?

 

[Pardus]

Loke (Loki)

 

[IanAlmighty]

Just to clarify, although I'm sure you're aware if you ever have been told anything about Satanism, Satanists do not worship Satan. Anyone who worships Satan is actually a Christian who's gone a tad bonkers.