Super Universe
Defender of God
Grow up. Maybe, instead of constant insults, you could actually post a reference that supports your claim that the US is doing something bad somewhere?
Here, I'll help you, post a Wiki page on the Vietnam War.
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Problems with Capitalism
- Thread starter buddhist
- Start date
Here, I'll help you, post a Wiki page on the Vietnam War.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
At least capitalism is freedom to be rich or poor, its there for the taking.
siti
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, did you say "we invented synthetic rubber"...??!! I'm sorry my dear deluded friend, the only thing "you" have invented was - well, almost everything you have written so far.
To be fair, there is one compelling fact in what you said so far - the US does indeed rank 13th highest on hourly minimum wage (the rate is about half that in Australia) - except, I understand in Georgia and Wyoming where the minimum rate would barely scrape into the top 20 - roughly on a level with Slovenia. Even my own beloved motherland, the Disunited Queendom (a small and increasingly insignificant offshore island nation once considered part of the Fragmented States of Europe) does better than that.
Super Universe
Defender of God
Iraq? So, you liked Saddam Hussein. Well, we didn't like him so he had to go.
Afghanistan? So, you liked Osama Bin Laden as well. We didn't like him so he got a visit from Seal Team Six.
Yemen? Uhh, that's between Saudi Arabia and Iran. I don't see you complaining about Saudi Arabia on here. Have you ever been there and seen the way they treat their immigrants labor force?
El Salvador? You're going to have to be more specific, did the US do something to El Salvador?
Chile? Did we do something to Chile?
siti
Well-Known Member
Super Universe
Defender of God
I'm not your dear friend but I am definitely deluded, less than half as much as you are.
I have to correct something, we didn't invent synthetic rubber, we improved it and improved it's production process.
I invented everything I have written so far? Then provide references since you "think" you are so educated.
The US states of Georgia and Wyoming have very low minimum wage levels? They do. It doesn't make sense for Georgia but for Wyoming it's probably fine to live on.
supported a right wing dictator in El Salvador, you're not very old are you, CIA overthrew the democratically elected government of Chile, had a horrible military dictatorship government for years because of it. Osama Bin Laden was not the leader of Afghanistan, not even close, read you history books
siti
Well-Known Member
OK here's a reference for one:
and here's another...
PS - its not about education - I got both of these from an uneducated source!
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Super Universe
Defender of God
We supported a right wing dictator in El Salvador? So it would have been okay if we had supported a left wing dictator instead?
I got news for you, everything that happens in El Salvador isn't the US fault. Have we gotten involved in other countries affairs before? Yes, we have and we should have stayed out. You must have missed the part about the El Salvadoran death squads that were going around killing 10 people a day but, I guess, as long as it's El Salvadoran's killing El Salvadoran's it's okay?
As for Chile, once again we should not have gotten involved with anything going on there. But, you probably missed the part about the US forgiving old loans in 1971 worth $200 million and granting other aid, and credit of about $600 million.
Osama Bin Laden was not the leader of Afghanistan? I didn't say he was. Al Qaeda was all over the place. Where are they now?
Years ago Egypt wanted to buy tear gas from the US. So, we sold it to them. During their arab spring the government used the US made tear gas on the rioters. The people picked up the cans and read that they were made in the US and blamed the US for all the problems in Egypt. We only give Egypt $6 billion a year.
I'm ready for the trade war to begin. The first thing we'll do is cut off all government aid and charity to foreign countries. Please notify your government representative as soon as possible. Let's start today.
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You just don't seem to comprehend the topics you're talking about, for instance the Taliban still controls half of Afghanistan, A trade war is a double edged sword, you gain some jobs by things you are no longer importing at much higher prices, and you lose just as many jobs for things you are no longer exporting because the other countries put retaliate with tariffs on American exports too, the whole thing is idiotic, and it takes a special kind of idiot like Trump to think that it will work.
Satans_Serrated_Edge
Deicidal
You nailed it. No true free market can exist within a regulative state entity.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
You definitely need to research into where shops like Primark get the clothes they sell from and where tea brands like Typhoo and PG Tips source their crops.
This is supremacist historical revisionism and nothing more. Europe & America did not invent everything. China invented the concept of paper money & gunpowder. Egypt invented paper used for writing on; older non-European societies like Mesopotamians & proto-Chinese societies invented agriculture (the domestication of pigs 15,000 years ago and cultivation of rice between 13,500-8200 years ago respectively) - this would have been when much of Europe was covered by the Laurentide Ice Sheet and other glaciers stemming from the Alps.
It's also a coin-toss between China, India & Persia as to who invented philosophy.
Super Universe
Defender of God
The constant insults means you lost the argument. You're quite the angry little man. Let me guess, you didn't get the toy you wanted one Christmas and you're still upset about it? Boo hoo hoo.
It's past the time that you were supposed to grow up.
The Taliban still controls half of Afghanistan? Maybe they do. Al Qaeda was the enemy, the Taliban just supported them. Afghanistan has to figure out it's own government. If they want Sharia Law then that's for them to decide.
A trade war is a double edged sword? It is, at first, but I have absolute confidence that the US can establish all the manufacturing necessary to continue our way of life. It will be a speed bump. And once we bring all the manufacturing back to the US, the US will never trade with those countries again. I've been all over the world, they take US dollars pretty much everywhere. In Africa, they prefer our US dollars to their own currency because their's devalues too quickly. Try using your currency anywhere outside your country and see what happens.
Trump is a blowhard. He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. I didn't vote for him but he got elected so we're going to have to live with it for the next four years.
I'm just defending the US, not Trump. The US has done a lot for the world and, yes, we've made some mistakes as well. If you want to go it all on your own, without any trade with the US, I'm ready. We don't just have resources and infrastructure and manpower, we have the will power that most other countries don't have.
Super Universe
Defender of God
When an employee works for someone that's exploitation because of surplus extraction? Then by your definition EVERY economic system is exploiting their workers. That's not just capitalism, name one economic system that pays it's workers more than they produce? Just one. I'll be waiting...
There is no other option to the Chinese workers? Sure there is, stop having children, leave the cities and go back to the farms. You think it's a horrible thing to provide someone with a job, believe it or not, some people don't want hand outs and actually want to be productive because it gives them independance.
It's not good for workers being paid pennies for their labor? It depends on their cost of living. You're trying to compare wages in Europe and the US with wages in China. The cost of living is lower in China.
The third world did not develop their economies because of colonialism? Yeah, western nations gave them access to thousands of years of philosophy, scientific discoveries, and knowledge. What a shame that was.
Capitalist charities are known to damage economies? Try asking a starving kid in Africa if the US aid rice he was given is harming him? Try asking the people who have received free medical treatments aboard the Mercy Ship if they've been "exploited" by capitalism. If their system is so great, how come they can't provide for their own people? We not only provide for our own people but we are actually able to give money away to others.
I'm a racist because western nations discovered everything? I wish I had that excuse. Nothing would ever be my fault, it would always be because of my skin color. But I can't use it, I have to be responsible. Europe didn't develop everything, just the difficult things. And all of Europe isn't one race.
The world does extract resources and value from the third world, why shouldn't we? They don't have to sell anything if they don't want to. You're really lazy, that's it, you don't think anyone should have to work. You think we're somehow forcing others to do our work. They can stop tomorrow. We'll find someone else or go back to doing it ourselves. You should move to the Amazon Rain Forest and live with a tribe.
The first world doesn't exist in a vacuum, but the toasters and shirts that the third world makes for us are just toasters and shirts. If they don't want to make them they don't have to. We'll find someone else and they can go back to chasing after antelope.
The first world only exist because the third world provides us? Name the third world country that gave the US the dollar? Name the third world country that gave the US our Federal Reserve System, banks, and stock market. Try explaining supply and demand to a tribe.
Other countries, even if they adopted American laws, would not necessarily be as prosperous as the US? That is absolutely correct. No people work more or harder than American's. We have about 300 million people, China has 1.2 billion people but their GDP is less than the US.
The US went into WW2 to protect capital? What capital? In ancient times war would make you money because you could kill everyone and take everything they own and their land. Modern war is a complete waste of resources. How did Europe repay us for WW2?
You don't remember the US eradicating small pox? Actually it was a World Health Organization (WHO) team headed by an American and supplied with vaccine from the Soviet Union and the US at first. The WHO is a UN agency. Guess what country gives the UN 22% of their funds? Guess what country donated land for the UN? Everyone in the US and Europe was vaccinated against small pox, why would we spend all that money into vaccinating people all over the world if we're just "exploiting" them?
America wouldn't be the country it is without foreign labor? You're greatly over estimating the value of your sewing. We had to give you the sewing machines and tell you how to build electrical power plants. How long do you think it would take if we had to wait for any tribe to invent electricity? What if we give them one task, we'll ask them to come up with a design for a humans to Mars mission, how long will it take them?
The US is not isolated from other capitalist influences, that's to our and their benefit. If you think working is exploitation, then don't work. You can move in with a tribe, there are a few left in the Amazon, New Guinea, and Africa.
You know, all third world people can go back to living in tribes so they don't have to work as much. They can shut down their electrical power plants and go back to chasing after deer. They should control their birth rate if they do that, which they won't, so there will be horrible famines but the most important thing to you is they won't have to work anymore.
The third world discovered and developed many things? Fire and the spear. Yeah, thanks for that.
The oldest written works we have don't come from Europe? You know, we don't need to use clay tablets anymore because the first world invented computers. You're welcome. You actually think that bone inscriptions was a benefit to the world? That's pretty bad when the best thing you can come up with is bone inscriptions. How's the small pox lately? Want to see some pictures of the land on Mars?
Ethiopians made the first coffee? Thanks, but I don't drink it. So, we have bone inscriptions and coffee.
Socialism advocates for the abolition of capitalist profit for the gain of the community as a whole? Sounds fantastic, in practice is rewards the lazy and untalented and robs from the inventive and hard workers.
I'll tell you another story, many years ago there was a Cuban figher pilot named Orestes Lorenzo Perez who went to the USSR for some training. He had to go to a hospital to get a regular check up. The Russian nurses were lazy and sat around smoking cigarettes all day. He was disgusted by the dirty hallways in the hospital and the lack of care the nurses showed to the patients. Even Cuba had a better health care system than socialist Russia. The Cuban fighter pilot went back to Cuba, then defected to the US with a Cuban owned, Russian built, fighter plane. Fidel Castro dared the pilot to come back and get his family. So, he borrowed a small Cesna airplane and flew back to Cuba, staying under their radar, flying just above the sea. He landed on a remote road where his family was waiting, loaded them up, and flew back to the US.
Socialism doesn't provide a benefit for doing anything more than the minimum. There is a reason why Russia and China changed over to capitalism.
In capitalism you either work or die? We have many homeless people who's only job is to stand on the street corner and beg for money.
You're done here? Good, have fun not working and living in the Amazon.
------ Reminder -------
This is the Capitalist Only Forum.
This is the Capitalist Only Forum.
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BSM1
What? Me worry?
Super Universe
Defender of God
Capitalism is not perfect. Bill Gates didn't invent MS DOS, he bought it and sold it to IBM. Mark Zuckerberg didn't come up with the idea for Facebook. He initially did most of the work but early on he hired coders to write most of the code.
Most US farmers have tractors that do almost everything except drive themselves. I think they're even air conditioned inside.
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Super Universe
Defender of God
Can you just get to the point? If you're trying to lock me into a logic debate about whether my conclusions jive with my premise, I'd don't want to play. I hated my college logic class, it's arguing about how to argue, and it's a waste of time. People argue the way they argue.
Guys, raise your hand if you actually identify as a Capitalist. If you don't, you shouldn't be posting in this area. At all. This is the "Capitalist ONLY" subforum. If you want to debate Capitalism as a non-Capitalist, you need to do it somewhere else.