Firstly, I want to note that I didn't get an answer to my question here.
You didn't get an answer? Are you certain about that?
Your questions were...
Before such things become automatic and unquestioned, they ought to be questioned and reasoned out, don't you think? So again, how do we decide what the rules should be?
My answer was...
Well, if I thought like that when my dad told me not to run across the road, I probably wouldn't be alive today.
There is no need to question a dad that proves trustworthy... or do you disagree?
That looks like an answer to me.
It says this basically...
Not every stated law is questioned, nor needs to be, especially if it's been demonstrated that the stated law is from a trustworthy and reliable source.
In a lot of cases, people do not even demand that the source be reliable or trustworthy before they accept..
For example, most people don't require they carry out any tests of their own to verify the truthfulness of claims of scientists. They just accept.
How did you determine that the major moral problem of humanity is people "deciding to be their own god" when that demonstrably contradicts all the available evidence that most humans through history have been theistic? And particularly in the West, have derived their morals from what they think their God has declared as right and wrong?
Does being theistic mean that one will not be or is not against God?
I think if we believe that, we will also have to believe that someone working for the C.I.A. will never betray or act against the C.I.A.
Do you believe that?
Claiming to be something does not mean you actually are.
Being among or in a group doesn't mean you actually are with the group in your thoughts and ideas.
That's what I mean about lumping all religion as one.
Some people don't seem to think that religions can belong to a system that is actually against what they claim to be for.
Does it just boil down to "because the Bible says so?" If so, please just say that because it'll save a lot of time in the conversation.
When my dad commanded that I not run or play in the street, I might not have fully understood... or even agreed, but as I gained more understanding and experience, I came to see for myself that his law was good - sound, practical. So that I even repeated it to others.
In this same way, I have come to experience for myself, that God's stated laws are indeed good... always.
That experience, coupled with the fact that his word has time and again proved
trustworthy, I see no need to question things that may seem to be
at odds with reason.
Again and again, later understanding based on acquired wisdom, have proved that I was the one behind in thinking.
Proving this fact...
“For my [God's] thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.
I did have a conversation with you on this.
The subject was centered around the data showing the results of living promiscuous lives.
I'd have to search for it, but there is this one
I have seen that living by God's laws always
prove to be the best choice.
Obviously you don't, but you'll have to be able to provide evidence to the contrary.
I'll be happy to consider it.
As to your question, I don't lump all religion together as "bad," personally. So I don't really want to speak for people who would. Similarly, I could ask an analogous question back to you. Since there is "good and bad in everything," does it not then stand to reason that there is also good and bad in people determining their own morality apart from authoritarian religious dictates? Some people will make wise, healthy choices and some people won't. Much like religions do, really.
Yes, but why?
Why do they make good decisions?
I'll suggest it's because of what you said earlier.
"...all the available evidence [is] that most humans through history have been theistic... And particularly in the West, have derived their morals from what they think their God has declared as right and wrong..."
So, in a nutshell, the reason people make morally good decisions is due to they having a conscience which has been trained and guided by "theistic" tenants that have been passed down through generations... which has some roots from the beginning of "theism".
You most likely disagree, so what do you suggest is the reason why?
I have two thoughts here. First, one of the quintessential elements of growing from child to adult is learning to question and even challenge the authority figures in our lives. When we are helpless and clueless as young children, we really have little choice but to unquestioningly obey our parents. Yet as we intellectually mature and develop, we begin to realize that the rules, and even the values, of our parents are sometimes flawed or irrational or unfair or have harmed and stymied us in various ways. And we realize our parents are really not all-wise and all-knowing and actually make mistakes and commit immoral acts just like we do and everyone else does. And so as adults we hopefully unlearn the crappy rules and values we were expected to obey without question as children. Imagine the tragedy of an adult who never did so and went his whole life just blindly, unquestioningly obeying whatever his parents dictated!
It depends on what kind of parents we have, would you agree?
Because while you were saying "we begin to realize that the rules, and even the values, of our parents are sometimes flawed", I couldn't help but think of the millions of people who are living examples, who say the complete opposite... "we begin to realize that the rules, and the values, of our parents were right, and ours were often flawed
That, demonstrates, it matters where our teaching comes from.
Is it from those who submit to God's thinking, or think that their thinking is "Oh so right".
There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward.
Secondly, the key phrase in your question is "a dad that proves trustworthy." A dad who is trustworthy, from my perspective, is a guy who can explain his reasons for what he does with his kids. He can morally reason in a thoughtful, non-authoritarian way. He is nonplussed by suggestions of how he might parent better, and willing to try new ways of doing things because he realizes he is imperfect.
Actually, if you had to ask me how many times we discuss at the meetings I attend at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses, the fact that though Jehovah is almighty and superior... and perfect
, he condescend to listen to persons question him, his actions, and decisions, and even listens to suggestions, I couldn't give you a number.
Just last midweek meeting, we discussed that in 1 Kings 22:19-22
So again, when it comes to setting up these rules, how do they actually get decided? What is the reasoning behind them?
Answered. Hope you got it.