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Problem of evil, is this a satisfying answer?

leov

Well-Known Member
Why was it made possible that we were put in exile ? Why was it possible that we were able to commit a transgression that would lead to that ?
The story is an allegory, lmo. Ability to choose between good and evil required life in physical world where we can apply our choices. The last step was Cain exiled to earth.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
The story is an allegory, lmo. Ability to choose between good and evil required life in physical world where we can apply our choices. The last step was Cain exiled to earth.

Why do we need to be able to choose evil ?
For instance, why can't it be physically impossible to do physical harm ?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Why do we need to be able to choose evil ?
For instance, why can't it be physically impossible to do physical harm ?
To choose evil or good. No, it had to be this way because souls had ego problem in original world, Higher Power designed by to fix it by training of choosing good through developing agape state of being, so we qualify to return to original estate.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
To choose evil or good. No, it had to be this way because souls had ego problem in original world, Higher Power designed by to fix it by training of choosing good through developing agape state of being, so we qualify to return to original estate.

Why did souls have ego problems in the original world ? Why couldn't the problems be fixed instantly rather than by training ?
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Ahh, so you're a college student first learning logic. Good luck with your grades, dude.

...What ?
No, I am referring you to a comprehensive list of topics surrounding the argument in that link. I want you to point out from where you gather that the argument is not applicable to your God concept. You may post any other source of your liking. If you can't do it, then perhaps you don't properly understand the argument.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So evil as you see it is a requirement for free will? So a person wouldn't be able to help another one without also having the option to not help them or maybe even harm them?

No, evil is not a requirement at all...it shouldn't have even touched our lives, but when it did, through no fault on God's part, we became acquainted with it against our will. Free will is a gift, but like all good things, it can be abused, with dire consequences.

It merely exists as an equal opposite....the basis of all creation. God was going to protect us from it...all we had to do was obey him as the rightful Sovereign that he is.

But weren't evil already there? Meaning Satans action at the time when he deceived Eve was not actually one of evil then. But as Eve failed to resist him and ate the fruit then everything fell apart. So Satan became evil and then all humans could see him as being evil, is that what you mean? My impression or understanding is that Satan already was evil at that point.

Evil has existed as long as good has.....it was the "knowledge" of it that God withheld. If you step back and observe, humans sometimes cannot discern the line between good and evil. God was the one who would have exposed his children only to the good, whilst keeping a knowledge of evil out of their lives. By allowing God to decide what was good and what was evil, they would thereby have eliminated the need for the line.

Why would God bother with free will then, that seems a bit confusing to me, can you explain that?

If you understand the reason why humans alone have free will, all you have to do is see what assignment God gave to them originally. They were to be caretakers of this planet as his representatives. In order to carry out that assignment and exercise dominion over all other living creatures as God would, they had to reflect his qualities, his moral attributes, and his ability to make decisions with a view to the future by observing the past. We are the only creatures on earth who can do that. We are not programmed by instinct.....but by education. God was to be our primary educator in an ongoing way. The earth was to be filled with perfect humans living in ideal conditions, obedient to their Creator and enjoying all that this earth had to offer...forever....no heaven or hell.....just everlasting life the way we are programmed to live it....in peace and security because of living in harmony with the Creator's requirements.


Only Adam and Eve were directly created by God, the rest through procreation, so why would God make it possible for a person to be homosexual, if that is as you say it is, not "natural" and weren't what God intended by making us capable of procreation in the first place?

God did not create the humans with defects in their DNA.....if you know anything about inherited medical disorders, the genetics of the parents become a gene pool for their children. We have no say over what genes are passed down. When the first humans had children, the genetic damage (created by sin) was passed down to all their offspring with no way to prevent death. Humans are not programmed for death or sickness or suffering, because it was never supposed to happen.

So you also see the use of condoms, pills etc. as being against the will of God and that people should or ought to be punished just as hard as homosexuals, as they are basically preventing what God intended?

The choice to be parents is ours. But the sex that produces them had to be confined to scriptural marriage. That way if a pregnancy occurred unintentionally, then a family was waiting to accept and love the child, produced by two loving and committed people. Gender roles shape children and role modeling is as old as time itself.....these days are so different.....and not "good" different. Planting ideas in the minds of vulnerable children about gender identity is abhorrent IMV. Adults must make those choices, not young children. Let them be kids for goodness sake. They are robbed of their innocence way too early.

There is no law of God that says you must have children or that you must not prevent pregnancy.....especially is this the case if you cannot provide for them, as we see in many poverty stricken nations where small children starve to death every day. The poor have trouble managing their lives even in affluent nations as the homeless levels increase, along with the crime generated by poverty and a lack of basic decency.

If our moral is given by God and is none negotiable and as most Christians claims Jesus removed the law, then how should we decide moral issues or which should we follow, if these are none negotiable, to me it seems to conflict with free will? Can you elaborate on that?

Jesus said that the whole of the Law was summed up in just two......“‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)

If you think about moral issues, or any kind of breach of God's laws, it is impossible to break any law without breaching one or both of those commandments. The Jews had a written code which they corrupted in their interpretation, sidestepping and justifying their errors....but Christians were to be guided by conscience. The law was now written on hearts dictating to the conscience when moral decisions were to be made.
A Christian is identified, not by what they say...but by what they do in obedience to Christ's commands. Talk is cheap.

But the Bible doesn't condemn slavery and as a follow up from the question above, if these morals are none negotiable, why should slavery then be considered morally wrong?

The slavery mentioned in the Bible among the Israelites was way different to that practiced by the Gentile nations.
The way slaves were treated in those nations was morally wrong because it involved kidnapping people from their own country and taking them to another nation to a life of hard labor and misery.

The slavery practiced in Israel had rules against harsh cruelty and was in some cases more like employment. A person who was in debt for example, could offer his services to the one to whom he owed the debt, until it was paid. If he had a family to support, then he could offer a son or daughter to their service to help pay the debt. No social security back then. No credit cards.

We also need to keep in mind that physical punishment was the norm in those times. Even a child could be beaten as a punishment. If we remember just a few decades ago, the schools and parents had the right to inflict corporal punishment on children quite legally. It was acceptable to discipline children that way....a good whooping down behind the woodshed was seen as good parenting. Today's snowflakes would melt.

So even if we were through free will to decide our own morals and not use politics, how would we do it, can you explain that, because that seems a bit weird to me, how we would do it then?

We do it personally. We are the only ones who control our own behavior. The laws of the land stand as a deterrent to lawbreakers (though not in any real way among the lawless). If we live according to God's standards, then we don't have to worry about breaking the law or suffering its consequences. We do not engage in politics, so we leave the law making to those who have authority to prevent anarchy. No one would want to live in a world with no laws.

[Im sorry its really difficult to figure this out I think. Does this only apply to gender issues and the practice of spiritism? or does it also apply to murder, rape etc. or how do you choose which part of God's law is no longer in effect and which are, can you elaborate on that? because that seems very confusing to me, especially with all the other things you have mentions above. Where do we start, what is allowed and what is not allowed and who and how do we decide it, if we can't decide our morals and we shouldn't involve our self with actual methods of doing it?[/QUOTE]

You asked specifically about those two issues and so my response was about them.....God's laws still apply in principle......adultery, murder, theft, lying, etc were all dealt with in God's law to Israel. The laws of the land in many nations still apply some of those laws. Some still have capital punishment.

We know what the Bible says about the things that God approves and what he doesn't. All we have to do is follow what Jesus Christ taught....do what he says to do...and refrain from what he says not to do....its not that hard.

We just need to educate ourselves and put in the time to appreciate why God gave his laws in the first place.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
...What ?
No, I am referring you to a comprehensive list of topics surrounding the argument in that link. I want you to point out from where you gather that the argument is not applicable to your God concept. You may post any other source of your liking. If you can't do it, then perhaps you don't properly understand the argument.
Such as? All I've said is that evil isn't a force just like darkness isn't a force. It's just a lack of Good like darkness is a lack of light. It's up to you to prove to me it's a force.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Such as? All I've said is that evil isn't a force just like darkness isn't a force. It's just a lack of Good like darkness is a lack of light. It's up to you to prove to me it's a force.

I refer to it as neither a force nor as the lack of good. Why should I have to prove what I am not stating ?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Why did souls have ego problems in the original world ? Why couldn't the problems be fixed instantly rather than by training ?
Something I would not know why the Higher Power decided that we have to resolve that problem by ourselves, my guess: free will may be an important moment.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Evil has existed as long as good has.....it was the "knowledge" of it that God withheld. If you step back and observe, humans sometimes cannot discern the line between good and evil. God was the one who would have exposed his children only to the good, whilst keeping a knowledge of evil out of their lives. By allowing God to decide what was good and what was evil, they would thereby have eliminated the need for the line.
I agree that people for the most part and especially through history have had a hard time seeing the difference. But still, I don't get how evil got into the world according to what you are saying. Did God create good? and if so, you say that evil have been there for just as long as good have, but at the same time its not a requirement for evil to be there to do good, so who created evil? and why doesn't God simply remove it? And if God did not create good, then did good and evil already exists and again, who created that, do you see why its a bit confusing? Because I understand what you are saying in regards to people etc. assuming that good and evil is actually true. but it doesn't really explain the need for evil or where it comes from, if God did not create it.

If you understand the reason why humans alone have free will, all you have to do is see what assignment God gave to them originally. They were to be caretakers of this planet as his representatives.
I get what you are saying, but why do you think its important for God to have us run around here to take care of his planet, it seems like a pretty useless tasks?

God did not create the humans with defects in their DNA.....if you know anything about inherited medical disorders, the genetics of the parents become a gene pool for their children. We have no say over what genes are passed down. When the first humans had children, the genetic damage (created by sin) was passed down to all their offspring with no way to prevent death. Humans are not programmed for death or sickness or suffering, because it was never supposed to happen.
But God created the DNA and how they should work as well right? So whether this is inherited doesn't really matter, as he could have made it differently. So sin is in our genes? I have to say that it is the first time I have heard that, I thought it was more a soul thing or something.

There is no law of God that says you must have children or that you must not prevent pregnancy.....especially is this the case if you cannot provide for them, as we see in many poverty stricken nations where small children starve to death every day. The poor have trouble managing their lives even in affluent nations as the homeless levels increase, along with the crime generated by poverty and a lack of basic decency.
But then why do God think that same gender sex should be punished by death? Why do you think he doesn't like it, if it have nothing to do with procreation?

The slavery mentioned in the Bible among the Israelites was way different to that practiced by the Gentile nations.
But slavery none the less, also they were allowed to beat their slaves senseless and only if they died, if I remember correctly they would have to pay a fine.

We do not engage in politics, so we leave the law making to those who have authority to prevent anarchy. No one would want to live in a world with no laws......
God's laws still apply in principle......adultery, murder, theft, lying, etc were all dealt with in God's law to Israel. The laws of the land in many nations still apply some of those laws. Some still have capital punishment.
So Christians ought not to engage in politics, so the other religions, atheists etc. should "fight" it out? Yet I still don't get it, who decide which of God's laws should apply, because why was the laws concerning slaves not good enough, God made those as well?

All we have to do is follow what Jesus Christ taught....do what he says to do...and refrain from what he says not to do....its not that hard.
But Jesus himself used the example from the law, that a child rebelling against their parents should be killed as written in the law. So who and why did that law get removed? Do you understand why im confused, because you say that God's laws should be followed and we should follow what Jesus have taught us, yet the example i just gave you, is both in the law and said by Jesus. And yet it have been decided by someone that it should not be followed anyway. But if I understood you correct, we ought to follow that law, so why wouldn't you agree that this law should be followed?
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
To me the ultimate message of the book is about having complete faith in God, that you have to endure through hard times and in the end you will be rewarded for it.

Yet the story is a morale mess with little thought behind it as I see it. To me its clear that the authors attention was on God and faith in him and little to the content and morality of the story.

First of all its a bet between God and Satan, God being omniscient already know that Satan is going to fail, so to me it seems he only do it for self satisfaction. Jobs first children, 9? 10? or how many are killed by Satan while God just stand there, not even caring the slightest, regardless of these children having done nothing and not even part of the bet. That is what really concerns me, the rest is not really important, I think. Why did Jobs children have to die? Obviously he gets it all back in the happy ending, yet no explanation or emotional reaction from Job still having lost his first children, as if they didn't matter at all. Because God in all his goodness rewarded him in the end. So again to me the story is a complete disaster when it comes to morality and God. Which is probably also why most Christians don't really know how to defend it, for good reason.

Ok, interesting interpretation.

What if Job is actually about our perceptions of God and our relation to things within the context of greater reality? The most profound understanding of Job I've heard was about, from a Jewish point of view, that we have to face a 'dark side' of God equally as the good side. Good itself is the ultimate ideal, so the evil is nothing. Forgetting about the Christian "Satan", one aspect of that is that the adversarial side of the dichotomy, at least in Job.
What I gather is that it is not enough to love God through the Good, when the evil of this life is the necessary existence, it is what we are supposed to come through. Certainly suffering and pleasure weren't viewed with such rose-tinted glasses in even previous centuries, let alone when Job was written.
Think about this, you can't even begin to grapple with God's goodness without first grappling with the immediate tangibility of evil. Good and Evil are both from God (as nothing can't be, in the grander scheme) but Good is the only eternal one, Evil is the default temporal state of material existence (hence what led early Gnostic Christians to declare that matter was itself "Evil", not entirely correct but not entirely wrong either).

What about the incident with Prophet Abraham and his son Isaac? have you contemplated this before? Have you wondered what the moral of that is?
(of course, I trust you don't interpret God anthropomorphically.....)

Everyone wants to be happy and whenever something interfere with that, we react to it and it gets our attention. So to me we want to reduce "evil" because the absent of it makes us more happy. So it makes little sense to be troubled when we are happy, but if out happiness is in "danger" then we start to worry.

So eventually I don't see it as a matter of focus, but rather why evil need to be there, if God could remove it, so the question end up being the same I think.

Well again, if you think about the cycle of life as espoused by practically any religion (whether it be Abrahamic, Dharmic etc) evil becomes an obvious necessity in the basic nature of life, which is merely a means to an end and not an end in itself. The Soul (or Atman) is born into a body and is forced to live through all of this for a lifetime (however long that entails) for a reason, we are meant to reach something.

Suffering in and of itself is a principle contemplation, in a way it's the yin and the yang to which is beyond both, again as Dualism is not eternal.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Ok, interesting interpretation.

What if Job is actually about our perceptions of God and our relation to things within the context of greater reality? The most profound understanding of Job I've heard was about, from a Jewish point of view, that we have to face a 'dark side' of God equally as the good side. Good itself is the ultimate ideal, so the evil is nothing. Forgetting about the Christian "Satan", one aspect of that is that the adversarial side of the dichotomy, at least in Job.
What I gather is that it is not enough to love God through the Good, when the evil of this life is the necessary existence, it is what we are supposed to come through. Certainly suffering and pleasure weren't viewed with such rose-tinted glasses in even previous centuries, let alone when Job was written.
Think about this, you can't even begin to grapple with God's goodness without first grappling with the immediate tangibility of evil. Good and Evil are both from God (as nothing can't be, in the grander scheme) but Good is the only eternal one, Evil is the default temporal state of material existence (hence what led early Gnostic Christians to declare that matter was itself "Evil", not entirely correct but not entirely wrong either).

What about the incident with Prophet Abraham and his son Isaac? have you contemplated this before? Have you wondered what the moral of that is?
(of course, I trust you don't interpret God anthropomorphically.....)



Well again, if you think about the cycle of life as espoused by practically any religion (whether it be Abrahamic, Dharmic etc) evil becomes an obvious necessity in the basic nature of life, which is merely a means to an end and not an end in itself. The Soul (or Atman) is born into a body and is forced to live through all of this for a lifetime (however long that entails) for a reason, we are meant to reach something.

Suffering in and of itself is a principle contemplation, in a way it's the yin and the yang to which is beyond both, again as Dualism is not eternal.

If we are talking about an omnipotent being then evil can not be a mean to an end but only an end in itself. Omnipotence entails being able to bake a cake without any ingredients.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I agree that people for the most part and especially through history have had a hard time seeing the difference. But still, I don't get how evil got into the world according to what you are saying.

I will let scripture speak....maybe you will understand God? :shrug:
Romans 6: 23
"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 5:12....
"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned."

Vs 18-19...
"So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, so too through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is their being declared righteous for life. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous."

Did God create good? and if so, you say that evil have been there for just as long as good have, but at the same time its not a requirement for evil to be there to do good, so who created evil? and why doesn't God simply remove it?

Free will means that God gives us choices.....we can choose good or evil because evil is in the world due to the disobedience of Adam. If Adam had obeyed his God, then evil would never have been experienced.
God could have removed all three rebels and started again....but because the issues raised in Eden were not addressed, what was to prevent another "satan" (adversary) from taking them up again? Was God withholding something that would benefit humans? Did God lie about the death penalty? Was he a bad father? The only way to settle the issues was to allow the humans complete freedom to make their own choices about everything.

And if God did not create good, then did good and evil already exists and again, who created that, do you see why its a bit confusing? Because I understand what you are saying in regards to people etc. assuming that good and evil is actually true. but it doesn't really explain the need for evil or where it comes from, if God did not create it.

Really? You can't get your head around an equal opposite? Its not a difficult concept surely? :confused:

I get what you are saying, but why do you think its important for God to have us run around here to take care of his planet, it seems like a pretty useless tasks?

God is not a material being. He decided to create matter and form the universe. He began to populate one small planet orbiting a small sun in one of millions of galaxies.....think about how vast the universe is and what plans the Creator may have for it. We may be just the beginning of something long range, extending into billions of years into the future. We don't know what God has up his sleeve for the rest of creation, but the Bible says he doesn't do things for no reason.

We have areas on earth like Botanical Gardens that need tending, and caretakers are appointed to tend them and take care of them.....why wouldn't God appoint caretakers for his Earth? He can't live in it, so he created suitable representatives to look after things for him.


But God created the DNA and how they should work as well right? So whether this is inherited doesn't really matter, as he could have made it differently. So sin is in our genes? I have to say that it is the first time I have heard that, I thought it was more a soul thing or something.

There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that any part of man survives death. We are a soul and we are mortal so was die. But the death humans experience was never in God's original purpose for our existence. We were supposed to live forever but Adam messed that up for all his children. Jesus came to give us back what he took away.....everlasting life in paradise on earth.

But then why do God think that same gender sex should be punished by death? Why do you think he doesn't like it, if it have nothing to do with procreation?

Both male and female homosexuality are mentioned in the Bible, but the apostle Paul explains why....

Romans 1:18-27....
"For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, 19 because what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them. . . . Therefore, God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, so that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator. . . .That is why God gave them over to disgraceful sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; 27 likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error. . . . .Although these know full well the righteous decree of God—that those practicing such things are deserving of death—they not only keep on doing them but also approve of those practicing them."

Nowhere are we seeing this situation more now than at this time, in every nation on earth.

But slavery none the less, also they were allowed to beat their slaves senseless and only if they died, if I remember correctly they would have to pay a fine.

Not so long ago parents and the school principle were allowed to beat children. In fact that kind of discipline was considered necessary to correct an errant child. Now we see out of control kids beating up defenseless old people or bullying other kids because they are different....it gets filmed and presented on YouTube as something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

The slavery was not harsh.....only if the slave refused to serve his master or who treated him with disrespect was there a punishment. Many slaves were happy to stay with their masters for life. It was more like employment. Who isn't a slave to their boss today?

So Christians ought not to engage in politics, so the other religions, atheists etc. should "fight" it out? Yet I still don't get it, who decide which of God's laws should apply, because why was the laws concerning slaves not good enough, God made those as well?

Apparently you don't et a lot of things.....maybe you don't want to? :shrug:

Jesus instructed his disciples to be 'no part of this world' with its conflicts immorality and injustices.
If you participate in the political process, you are giving tacit support to the devil's rulership. That is the whole point of the exercise.....the devil wanted to be god and ruler of this world so God let him prove his case.

Luke 4:5-7 When the devil tempted Jesus.....
"So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6 Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.”

All the kingdoms of this world are under the devil's control. It was handed over to him so that we could see firsthand what a mess he would make of everything. :facepalm:

But Jesus himself used the example from the law, that a child rebelling against their parents should be killed as written in the law.
Did he? Please provide a reference. I don't recall Jesus mentioning it.
Jesus was a Jew under the law and when he laid down his life, the law ended. All of his followers were now under "the law of love".

So who and why did that law get removed? Do you understand why im confused, because you say that God's laws should be followed and we should follow what Jesus have taught us, yet the example i just gave you, is both in the law and said by Jesus. And yet it have been decided by someone that it should not be followed anyway. But if I understood you correct, we ought to follow that law, so why wouldn't you agree that this law should be followed?

Well now I'm confused o_O....that is just all jumbled up.
Jesus advocated for the Law while he was alive because up until his death, the law was in force. His death released repentant ones from the law. "The wages sin pays is death"....Jesus died and gave up his life to pay for ours. Like stepping in front of you to take the bullet. He died instead of us.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I will let scripture speak....maybe you will understand God?
Free will means that God gives us choices.....we can choose good or evil because evil is in the world due to the disobedience of Adam. If Adam had obeyed his God, then evil would never have been experienced.
God could have removed all three rebels and started again....but because the issues raised in Eden were not addressed, what was to prevent another "satan" (adversary) from taking them up again? Was God withholding something that would benefit humans? Did God lie about the death penalty? Was he a bad father? The only way to settle the issues was to allow the humans complete freedom to make their own choices about everything.

I know its a rough question :)
But again the verses you quoted and your explanations, is fine. I don't have an issue with them. But they do not seem to answer the question, Im asking rather its tells me what is going to happen after evil is already here.

Really? You can't get your head around an equal opposite? Its not a difficult concept surely? :confused:
Yes, but these or the possibility for these must have been created by someone? I don't have a problem with you example of equal opposite. But as with life and death, God created life, but he also made it possible for us to die. In the beginning, Adam and Eve before they sinned could live forever right? But God told them that if they ate from the tree, that they would die, so I assume God made it possible to die as well. So the same question is what I ask about good and evil?

We have areas on earth like Botanical Gardens that need tending, and caretakers are appointed to tend them and take care of them.....why wouldn't God appoint caretakers for his Earth? He can't live in it, so he created suitable representatives to look after things for him.
Because just as in the Garden of Eden, God created it the way he wanted it, so he could make plants grow in patterns that formed like Botanical gardens. Remember God created the plants before man, and he saw it was good.

Nowhere are we seeing this situation more now than at this time, in every nation on earth.
But people do not choose to be homosexual do they?

Not so long ago parents and the school principle were allowed to beat children. In fact that kind of discipline was considered necessary to correct an errant child. Now we see out of control kids beating up defenseless old people or bullying other kids because they are different....it gets filmed and presented on YouTube as something to be proud of. :rolleyes:
This is a different issue, So you think we ought to start beating children in schools again, so we basically solve violence with violence? or do you think other things could explain the behavior of these children?

The slavery was not harsh.....only if the slave refused to serve his master or who treated him with disrespect was there a punishment. Many slaves were happy to stay with their masters for life. It was more like employment. Who isn't a slave to their boss today?
Some people today live as slave under their boss and gets beaten, which we condemn. Most people that have a job today in a civilized country, is not allowed to be beaten by their boss, and he/she would be thrown in jail for such thing. So they are not slaves in the way you talk about it. As they can freely leave their job if they want. What they are truly slaves of, are the system that might force people to work meaningless jobs with poor salary and security etc. The boss simply exploit that, because they have enough people to choose for, so its a failure of the system, that encourage "slave" like conditions, yet it is not the same as what is described in the bible.

All the kingdoms of this world are under the devil's control. It was handed over to him so that we could see firsthand what a mess he would make of everything. :facepalm:
i have heard this before and I work with the assumption that the devil is in control. But still you don't explain how to get out of it? Should we follow the rules of the Catholic church, so we allow the Pope and the cardinals to guide us to live correctly and according to God will, would that solve it? And if not, how do people know what rules to follow.

Lets take an example from the real world. Lets say that we agree that Devil is in control and we want to fight him. So who should explain the rules to the Jews of how one ought to live according to the bible, or should they just figure this out themselves?

Did he? Please provide a reference. I don't recall Jesus mentioning it.
Jesus was a Jew under the law and when he laid down his life, the law ended. All of his followers were now under "the law of love".

Matthew 15
1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying,
2"Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God"--
6 then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.


So Jesus ask the scribes and Pharisees, why they don't follow Gods commandment 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
 
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