Pro-Chinese Propaganda by the World Muslim Communities Council: Uyghurs Strike Back

[Debater Slayer]

In a visit to Xinjiang in China, where Uyghurs are subjected to genocide, a delegation from the World Muslim Communities Council gave a positive report on the treatment of Uyghurs, leading to backlash from Uyghurs worldwide:

“We are happy to see Muslims in Xinjiang lead a happy life. They fully enjoy the freedom of religious belief.” As reported by Bitter Winter, this was the unbelievable statement by a delegation of thirty Islamic clerics and intellectuals led by Emirates scholar Ali Rashid Al Nuaimi on behalf of The World Muslim Communities Council (TWMCC), during a visit to the Uyghur homeland stage-managed by the Chinese government this month.

Al Nuaimi said that in Chinese culture there is no concept of targeting Muslims or Islam, adding that it is their [TWMCC] responsibility to tell the world about China’s prosperity and development. Really?

China was very selective on who was invited to “tour” the region. There were no independent scholars or journalists, and all invitees were connected to governments that have never acknowledged the Uyghur genocide nor any human rights violations in China. This visit also comes after claims that Egypt, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia have been deporting Uyghur refugees back to China, despite obvious concerns over their safety if sent back.

The article contrasts this approval of genocide with responses from Islamic intellectuals to publication of cartoons they deemed blasphemous:

We would like to compare this attitude towards the Uyghur genocide to how the same Islamic countries, and often the same Islamic intellectuals, reacted to offensive cartoons published in Europe. Readers may remember the cartoon controversy of September 2005, when “Jyllands-Posten,” a Danish newspaper, published twelve cartoons depicting Prophet Muhammad. Within six months, 139 people died and 823 were injured by violence following the controversy. Danish, Austrian, and Norwegian embassies were burned in Syria and Iran. Islamic leaders called for a boycott of Danish goods, and the cartoonists themselves had to go into hiding due to death threats.

Even more well-known is the “Charlie Hebdo” shooting of January 7, 2015, following the publication by the French magazine of cartoons offensive to Islam. Twelve people were killed, including eight cartoonists and journalists of the magazine. Five people died in a related attack in Paris days later. The “Charlie Hebdo” cartoons, too, elicited a worldwide condemnation from the Islamic world and its intellectuals.

We do not condone offenses to religion and to Islam. However, we ask the question: is the Uyghur genocide a less serious attack on Islam than the publication of offensive cartoons in Europe? If some regard symbolic offenses as intolerable, why they did not react when the Holy Quran was burned in East Turkestan (Ch. Xinjiang) or its verses referencing Allah were written on floor tiles in a café to be walked on? Are the desecration of mosques less offensive than satirical drawings? Why the different reactions—different in the extreme—by the Islamic world? One led to attacks on several embassies and widespread violence and murder; the other elicits little or no condemnation. The two publishers were small private businesses in contrast to the government-sanctioned actions directly targeting a whole people, their faith, their life, their very existence.

Pro-Chinese Propaganda by The World Muslim Communities Council: Uyghurs Strike Back

I have long believed that many modern Islamic scholars and a lot of the source material they draw from, such as Ibn Taymiyyah's work, are in dire need of intellectual and cultural reform. This further reinforces my view. Many Islamic organizations are guilty of and complicit in prioritizing offended sensibilities and hurt feelings over human life and well-being, including of many fellow Muslims such as the Uyghur.

If they couldn't speak their minds freely and honestly, they should have withdrawn the visit to China. Going there only to reinforce CCP propaganda is disgraceful and unbecoming of any individual or entity claiming to be a moral authority or to speak for one.

 

[Audie]

In a visit to Xinjiang in China, where Uyghurs are subjected to genocide, a delegation from the World Muslim Communities Council gave a positive report on the treatment of Uyghurs, leading to backlash from Uyghurs worldwide:



The article contrasts this approval of genocide with responses from Islamic intellectuals to publication of cartoons they deemed blasphemous:



Pro-Chinese Propaganda by The World Muslim Communities Council: Uyghurs Strike Back

I have long believed that many modern Islamic scholars and a lot of the source material they draw from, such as Ibn Taymiyyah's work, are in dire need of intellectual and cultural reform. This further reinforces my view. Many Islamic organizations are guilty of and complicit in prioritizing offended sensibilities and hurt feelings over human life and well-being, including of many fellow Muslims such as the Uyghur.

If they couldn't speak their minds freely and honestly, they should have withdrawn the visit to China. Going there only to reinforce CCP propaganda is disgraceful and unbecoming of any individual or entity claiming to be a moral authority or to speak for one.

Do you know who is telling the truth?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Do you know who is telling the truth?

I believe the Uyghurs are, because of the abuses that Uyghur refugees have talked about and because of reports from other observers such as the UN. The other human rights violations by the CCP also make it clear that they have no qualms perpetrating such things.

 

[Father Heathen]

Do you know who is telling the truth?

The evidence is pretty damning.

 

[Audie]

I believe the Uyghurs are, because of the abuses that Uyghur refugees have talked about and because of reports from other observers such as the UN. The other human rights violations by the CCP also make it clear that they have no qualms perpetrating such things.

The pov here is that China has seen
so much upheaval and carnage over the
centuries that enough is enough.
It's a difficult territory to governmen and
control.
Separatist movements, dissent, religious
radicals, etc can be dealt with vigorously
or we can look for more chaos.

A basic kind of human right might
be freedom from chaos.

Everyone has different ideas of course,
about what is or is not a human right.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The pov here is that Chuna has seen
so much upheaval and carnage over the
centuries that enough is enough.
It's a difficult territory to governmen and
control.
Separatist movements, dissent, religious
radicals, etc can be dealt with vigorously
or we can look for more chaos.

A basic kind of human right might
be freedom from chaos.

Everyone has different ideas of course,
about what is or is not a human right.

I don't see any of that as a justification for things like "education camps" or torture, forced labor, and sexual violence:

Transformation Through Education Camps | Bitter Winter

China responsible for ‘serious human rights violations’ in Xinjiang province: UN human rights report

I also find it impossible to believe that the hundreds of thousands of targeted Uyghurs are all religious radicals or people who want to cause upheaval. If anything, the CCP's treatment of them is now a perfectly legitimate reason for them to want to upheave the structures and state apparatuses that have enabled and carried out these abuses against them.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

In a visit to Xinjiang in China, where Uyghurs are subjected to genocide, a delegation from the World Muslim Communities Council gave a positive report on the treatment of Uyghurs...

WMCC delegate to China: "So, what's a little genocide between friends?"

*facepalm*

 

[Debater Slayer]

WMCC delegate to China: "So, what's a little genocide between friends?"

*facepalm*

They would have reacted more strongly if they had been shown an offensive meme or cartoon, it seems.

 

[Sirona]

Don't know where I got it from but I read somewhere that, as the "center" of Islam is in Arabia, for some Arabs only Arabs = "real" Muslims, while Muslims from non-Arab origins were sort of "second-class" Muslims so it wouldn't be so bad if they got hurt.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Don't know where I got it from but I read somewhere that, as the "center" of Islam is in Arabia, for some Arabs only Arabs = "real" Muslims, while Muslims from non-Arab origins were sort of "second-class" Muslims so it wouldn't be so bad if they got hurt.

This has long been one of the primary points of criticism against pan-Arabism and Arab nationalism. Nationalist chauvinism sometimes replaces concern for people of the same religion but a different country or region.

 

[sun rise]

A basic kind of human right might
be freedom from chaos.

What some call "chaos" I call freedom. Freedom is messy and often chaotic but it's alive rather than the idea of order which turns people into obedient well-programmed soul-dead robots.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What some call "chaos" I call freedom. Freedom is messy and often chaotic but it's alive rather than the idea of order which turns people into obedient well-programmed soul-dead robots.

I see order as also having its place in a lot of societies. A nation of over a billion people and numerous religions and sects like India, for example, needs a measure of order not to fall into disarray. Conversely, I find that some of the major problems the US is having are partially because of too much emphasis on "freedom" and too little consideration for the social contract and order.

As with many things, balance is best in this case. The CCP's policies are abusively and excessively restrictive. That's not an indictment of order per se; it's an indictment of autocratic stagnation and excessive conformism enforced through brutality and violence.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

I see order as also having its place in a lot of societies. A nation of over a billion people and numerous religions and sects like India, for example, needs a measure of order not to fall into disarray. Conversely, I find that some of the major problems the US is having are partially because of too much emphasis on "freedom" and too little consideration for the social contract and order.

As with many things, balance is best in this case. The CCP's policies are abusively and excessively restrictive. That's not an indictment of order per se; it's an indictment of autocratic stagnation and excessive conformism enforced through brutality and violence.

I agree. If one wishes to live within a civilized society, then a social contract is necessary. Otherwise, one can go live in the woods and be as free as one wishes -- where the only rule is: "Survival of the strongest."

 

[Wu Wei]

In a visit to Xinjiang in China, where Uyghurs are subjected to genocide, a delegation from the World Muslim Communities Council gave a positive report on the treatment of Uyghurs, leading to backlash from Uyghurs worldwide:



The article contrasts this approval of genocide with responses from Islamic intellectuals to publication of cartoons they deemed blasphemous:



Pro-Chinese Propaganda by The World Muslim Communities Council: Uyghurs Strike Back

I have long believed that many modern Islamic scholars and a lot of the source material they draw from, such as Ibn Taymiyyah's work, are in dire need of intellectual and cultural reform. This further reinforces my view. Many Islamic organizations are guilty of and complicit in prioritizing offended sensibilities and hurt feelings over human life and well-being, including of many fellow Muslims such as the Uyghur.

If they couldn't speak their minds freely and honestly, they should have withdrawn the visit to China. Going there only to reinforce CCP propaganda is disgraceful and unbecoming of any individual or entity claiming to be a moral authority or to speak for one.

Giving aide to other countries can buy a lot of silence.... and China does a lot for a few Muslim countries

China's secret aid empire uncovered

 

[Audie]

What some call "chaos" I call freedom. Freedom is messy and often chaotic but it's alive rather than the idea of order which turns people into obedient well-programmed soul-dead robots.

Freedom is nice.
You would not know that in China we are
free to,do msny things that are criminal
or strictly regulated in the the USA.

But more to the point, if you were versed
in Chinese history you'd not care for that
kind of freedom.
Start with Taiping civil war at roughly the time
of the American Civil War but lasted 4 times as long and killed about as many people as
the US population at the time.

Go from there to the present.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The pov here is that China has seen
so much upheaval and carnage over the
centuries that enough is enough.
It's a difficult territory to governmen and
control.
Separatist movements, dissent, religious
radicals, etc can be dealt with vigorously
or we can look for more chaos.

I am very sure that's what they say. Truly, I don't doubt. It does, however, remind me of garbage like Bush Jr's "enhanced interrogations" or Reagan's "freedom fighters."
China says that, but people living there, international observers, even satellite all show us way more is going on than what the CCP says there is. Which is obvious and a given as they way they treat Uyghurs, with the excuses they give, they treat them like somehow, remarkably and inexplicably the region is more radicalized and violent than what we'd see anywhere else, including where Islamic extremism is the worst.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You would not know that in China we are
free to,do msny things that are criminal
or strictly regulated in the the USA.

Perhaps, but China has a censored internet, heavily censored media,and such heavily restricted speech that protesting with a blank sheet of paper became a symbol of saying everything they legally cannot.

 

[sun rise]

You would not know that in China we are
free to,do msny things that are criminal
or strictly regulated in the the USA.

Specifically what?

But more to the point, if you were versed
in Chinese history you'd not care for that
kind of freedom.
Start with Taiping civil war at roughly the time
of the American Civil War but lasted 4 times as long and killed about as many people as
the US population at the time.

Civil wars are not freedom. Freedom includes freedom of speech (not controlled by a horde of government censors), freedom of movement, religions where the priests are not approved by the government, lack of official suppression of people based on religion and so forth.

 

[Father Heathen]

The pov here is that China has seen
so much upheaval and carnage over the
centuries that enough is enough.
It's a difficult territory to governmen and
control.
Separatist movements, dissent, religious
radicals, etc can be dealt with vigorously
or we can look for more chaos.

A basic kind of human right might
be freedom from chaos.

Everyone has different ideas of course,
about what is or is not a human right.

Down becomes up if you do a headstand.

 

[Father Heathen]

Winnie The Pooh is banned in China. I guess he must've caused an awful lot of chaos and carnage.