Prisoner rights

[pearl]

Where is the line drawn between the goal of rehabilitation and the safety of the Correction Officers?
Lately in Massachusetts news of an incident at a medium security prison has sparked much debate
among the politicians. A prisoner at this facility attacked a CO with heavy weights from the exercise gym.
This prisoner was transferred from another prison.
I think he is now on life support. I would hate to think that this might mean a complete crackdown on
prisoner rights, but the safety of the CO's must be of first priority. I have a personal interest in that one
of my grandsons is a CO at this prison.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Where is the line drawn between the goal of rehabilitation and the safety of the Correction Officers?
Lately in Massachusetts news of an incident at a medium security prison has sparked much debate
among the politicians. A prisoner at this facility attacked a CO with heavy weights from the exercise gym.
This prisoner was transferred from another prison.
I think he is now on life support. I would hate to think that this might mean a complete crackdown on
prisoner rights, but the safety of the CO's must be of first priority. I have a personal interest in that one
of my grandsons is a CO at this prison.

Prisoners don't have many rights aside from due process and protection such as it is.

 

[pearl]

Prisoners don't have many rights aside from due process and protection such as it is.

Depends on what you call rights. To pursue education, online internet access, etc., the first priority is rehabilitation. But these 'rights' can and are abused sometimes in a way threatening the health and wellbeing of the staff.

 

[Aštra’el]

Sometimes it is better to just have a criminal executed, rather than waste precious time and resources on “rehabilitation”.

 

[Stevicus]

Where is the line drawn between the goal of rehabilitation and the safety of the Correction Officers?
Lately in Massachusetts news of an incident at a medium security prison has sparked much debate
among the politicians. A prisoner at this facility attacked a CO with heavy weights from the exercise gym.
This prisoner was transferred from another prison.
I think he is now on life support. I would hate to think that this might mean a complete crackdown on
prisoner rights, but the safety of the CO's must be of first priority. I have a personal interest in that one
of my grandsons is a CO at this prison.

I agree with the general concept of rehabilitation, but I realize it doesn't work in all cases.

I'm not sure of the circumstances of this particular case. I might ask how the weight room is set up and secured. Is there more than one guard on duty in that room (or should there have been)? Was medium security an appropriate placement for this prisoner, or should he have been transferred to a maximum security prison? Should prisoners be allowed to have a weight room at all?

I think prisons are generally pretty strict about access to any tool or item which could be used or easily turned into a weapon.

On the right side of the spectrum, one can usually find opinions that liberals are too soft on crime and coddle criminals. They seem to think prisons are too luxurious and soft and advocate tougher conditions. Something like Cool Hand Luke, I guess, where you spend a night in the box.

I guess it will always be an ongoing political and philosophical difference regarding rehabilitation vs. punishment. But I also know that there are some pretty dangerous, violent, scummy people who have committed crimes and need to be kept away from society for the protection of the community. They need to be kept in prisons, and that means we have to pay people to guard them. We also have an obligation to try to keep these guards as safe as humanly possible, though it is a dangerous occupation. They are law enforcement officers.

 

[pearl]

Was medium security an appropriate placement for this prisoner, or should he have been transferred to a maximum security prison? Should prisoners be allowed to have a weight room at all?

No, it was not an appropriate placement, this prisoner was transferred from a maximum-security prison, so far, no answers as to why, or why Massachusetts accepted him that I am aware of. As for the gym I've never heard of this kind of problem.

I think prisons are generally pretty strict about access to any tool or item which could be used or easily turned into a weapon.

I assume its open to all unless they have previous history of trouble. In this case the weapon was a 50lb weight which was used repeatedly on the head and body of the CO.

On the right side of the spectrum, one can usually find opinions that liberals are too soft on crime and coddle criminals.

That's probably a fair assessment considering this is Massachusetts. Now even those politically liberal are questioning how and why.

We also have an obligation to try to keep these guards as safe as humanly possible, though it is a dangerous occupation. They are law enforcement officers.

And it works both ways. These CO's, even though at times very difficult, must 'respect' to a certain extent, the majority of prisoners. Sometimes in such a confined and restricted environment certain comments and gestures taunt these men and can easily escalate.
My grandson is a college grad majoring in criminal justice, applied for the state police but was declined due to being color blind. He can retire in 20 years with full pension and many years to explore something new.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where is the line drawn between the goal of rehabilitation and the safety of the Correction Officers?
Lately in Massachusetts news of an incident at a medium security prison has sparked much debate
among the politicians. A prisoner at this facility attacked a CO with heavy weights from the exercise gym.
This prisoner was transferred from another prison.
I think he is now on life support. I would hate to think that this might mean a complete crackdown on
prisoner rights, but the safety of the CO's must be of first priority. I have a personal interest in that one
of my grandsons is a CO at this prison.

I think there's more to it than just rehabilitation vs. safety.

For instance, the risk to corrections officers from any particular policy decision will depend - among other things - on prison staffing. An interaction that's dangerous for one CO on their own might be relatively safe if 2 or 3 guards are present.

Also, it's important to remember that privileges are important for maintaining control, and thereby safety. If all you give prisoners is the absolute minimum required by legislation, then you can't threaten them with revocation of privileges for bad bahaviour.

 

[pearl]

For instance, the risk to corrections officers from any particular policy decision will depend - among other things - on prison staffing. An interaction that's dangerous for one CO on their own might be relatively safe if 2 or 3 guards are present.

And staffing at this particular prison is below what it should be. At least once or twice every two weeks or so he must take a double shift. I agree on the importance of privileges and that rehabilitation should be a priority.

 

[Truth in love]

Where is the line drawn between the goal of rehabilitation and the safety of the Correction Officers?
Lately in Massachusetts news of an incident at a medium security prison has sparked much debate
among the politicians. A prisoner at this facility attacked a CO with heavy weights from the exercise gym.
This prisoner was transferred from another prison.
I think he is now on life support. I would hate to think that this might mean a complete crackdown on
prisoner rights, but the safety of the CO's must be of first priority. I have a personal interest in that one
of my grandsons is a CO at this prison.

Our entire prison system is a mess.

Drugs, digital devices being used for crimes, guards having sex with prisoners etc.


I think we need a 2 track system. One of rehabilitation (mostly for lower level crimes) the other where it is about keeping society safe.

long term we need to reduce the game being done to children and promote stable families. As this will reduce the need for prisons.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Sometimes it is better to just have a criminal executed, rather than waste precious time and resources on “rehabilitation”.

Have you looked at the cost and time required for execution?

 

[Mock Turtle]

The UK doesn't allow prisoners any voting rights, unlike many other countries in Europe, and I tend to agree with this latter group - if we want them to be rehabilitated into the community, and their loss of freedom being the true punishment.

 

[Ella S.]

In the US, the prison-industrial complex grew out of plantation slavery.

It doesn't actually serve to keep any sort of order. It increases criminal recidivism and merely adds to the pain of the world by punishing "crime."

For the most part, prisons aren't keeping serial rapists and terrorists away from harming people. They're instead used as sources of cheap labor extracted from those who are arrested for victimless crimes.

And the violent offenders usually become more violent, even taking that violence out on other inmates, and have high recidivism after release.

In my opinion, we should be focusing on improving every individual's personal security. The genuinely dangerous people will end up being shot in self-defense, and everyone else shouldn't even be locked away to begin with.

Abolish the prisons. They do more harm than good.

ETA: Also remember that the police don't prevent crime (they just selectively punish it) and that most serious offenses go either unreported or unsolved, so it's not like prisons are actually stopping these serious offenses from happening or efficient at separating those who commit them from society.

 

[Revoltingest]

Where is the line drawn between the goal of rehabilitation and the safety of the Correction Officers?
Lately in Massachusetts news of an incident at a medium security prison has sparked much debate
among the politicians. A prisoner at this facility attacked a CO with heavy weights from the exercise gym.
This prisoner was transferred from another prison.
I think he is now on life support. I would hate to think that this might mean a complete crackdown on
prisoner rights, but the safety of the CO's must be of first priority. I have a personal interest in that one
of my grandsons is a CO at this prison.

I disagree that CO safety is priority.
The prisoners are sentenced to a particular punishment,
one which doesn't include abuse by fellow inmates or
the system. Prioritizing who is worthy of safety is the
wrong attitude. There must be balancing & difficult
choices, but all parties must be given due consideration.

A very analogous situation is cops placing the highest
priority on their own safety, & letting civilian safety take
a back seat. This has resulted in cops being often
useless (schools shootings they sit out), & sometimes
needlessly abusive to civilians. They need attitude
re-adjustment.

 

[pearl]

long term we need to reduce the game being done to children and promote stable families. As this will reduce the need for prisons.

Of course much crime can be traced back to early childhood and lack of supporting family. But certainly not always. I had a friend who grew up in an orphanage and was put out at the age of 18, totally on his own. That circumstance could have easily led to the beginnings of crime. This friend of mind died as a retired General in the US Marines.

 

[HonestJoe]

Where is the line drawn between the goal of rehabilitation and the safety of the Correction Officers?
Lately in Massachusetts news of an incident at a medium security prison has sparked much debate
among the politicians. A prisoner at this facility attacked a CO with heavy weights from the exercise gym.
This prisoner was transferred from another prison.

I'm not convinced rehabilitation and safety are in direct conflict. There must have been more to the incident you describe and I'm not sure the availability of an improved weapon in the weights was key. Prisoners have long been able to cause harm to each other and/or guards with pretty much whatever they have available, or even just their bare hands.

Also, access to a gym isn't really rehabilitation on it's own, the primary reason being giving prisoners something to do with their time to avoid boredom leading to trouble. It certainly could be used as part of some rehabilitation regimes but that would require more structure than just access to the gym.

Safety, of both staff and other prisoners, should always be a high priority for any prison environment, but properly managed rehabilitation schemes doesn't need to conflict with that, and could well help. The real problem with rehabilitation (especially in the US system) is that it is barely tried at all.

 

[pearl]

Prioritizing who is worthy of safety is the
wrong attitude. There must be balancing & difficult
choices, but all parties must be given due consideration.

This incident was an exception. A dangerous criminal ought not to be placed in a minimum-security prison. This one was transferred from a maximum- security prison. In this case the COs were given no consideration, nor were the other prisoners.

 

[Stevicus]

Of course much crime can be traced back to early childhood and lack of supporting family. But certainly not always. I had a friend who grew up in an orphanage and was put out at the age of 18, totally on his own. That circumstance could have easily led to the beginnings of crime. This friend of mind died as a retired General in the US Marines.

I've heard a lot of success stories about people who grew up in orphanages. Sometimes I think it's better to grow up with no family at all than it is to grow up with one which is toxic, abusive, and dysfunctional.

 

[Truth in love]

Of course much crime can be traced back to early childhood and lack of supporting family. But certainly not always. I had a friend who grew up in an orphanage and was put out at the age of 18, totally on his own. That circumstance could have easily led to the beginnings of crime. This friend of mind died as a retired General in the US Marines.

Yes some times a child grows up in an ideal setting and harms others some suffer massive abuse and become very kinda

on average though we get better results from more stable environments.


So a child raised by loving commuted married parents in a community with high rates of stable families has the lowest risk of being abused.
He grows up, gets a bit of education (something more than high school), avoids committing crimes, gets married, gets a job turns 21. before having kids he has an almost zero chance of living in poverty. Having a family to go home to each night greatly discourages him from crime, they in turn lower the risk their kids and wife being victims of crime.

now to put the icing on the cake of healthy dad needs to help care for the kids at a young age and he and mom need to behave in such a way that they feel great confidence in the stability of the relationship and that he has no doubt the kids are his.


In that setting the risk of serious abuse is super low. This also means lower risks for addictions, asthma, early death etc.

 

[pearl]

I've heard a lot of success stories about people who grew up in orphanages. Sometimes I think it's better to grow up with no family at all than it is to grow up with one which is toxic, abusive, and dysfunctional.

I agree dysfunctional families can scar one for life unless some support is found.