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Printed 3-D Gun Blueprints Now Unavailable Online

Discussion in 'Law' started by Salvador, Sep 14, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    75.0%
  1. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Should 3-D printed gun blueprints be legally allowed to get downloaded to American citizens from the internet?

    "Defense Distributed is an online, open-source organization that develops digital firearms files, or "wiki weapons", that may be downloaded from the Internet and used in 3D printing or CNC milling applications.Among the organization's goals is to develop and freely publish firearms-related design schematics that can be downloaded and reproduced by anyone with a 3D printer or milling machine, facilitating the popular production of ghost guns.

    The company is best known for developing and releasing the files for the Liberator, the world's first completely 3D printed gun. On May 5, 2013, Defense Distributed made these printable STL files public,and within days the United States Department of State demanded they be removed from the Internet, citing a violation of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations.

    On May 6, 2015, Defense Distributed, joined by the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), brought suit against the Department of State in the Western District of Texas, which denied its preliminary injunction request. It subsequently appealed to the Fifth Circuit, which affirmed the denial, and then the Supreme Court, which declined to hear the case.

    On July 10, 2018 it was announced that Defense Distributed and Second Amendment Foundation had accepted a settlement offer from the Department of State, effectively winning the case and restarting their work. Western Washington District Court Judge Robert S. Lasnik subsequently issued an order suspending the settlement and the public release of Defense Distributed's files. Multiple lawsuits are currently filed by state governments and Defense Distributed seeking to challenge or uphold this settlement."

    Reference: Defense Distributed - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]



    Aren't printed 3-D gun blueprints an expression of free speech, which is a legal individual right that the U.S. Constitution guarantees?
     
    #1 Salvador, Sep 14, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  2. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Mortars, cannon, napalm and tactical nukes are free speech too, I suppose.
    Not sure about backyard chemical weapons as they are prohibited by the
    Geneva Convention - but there again, this convention is against free speech
    too.
     
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  3. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Mortars, cannon, napalm and tactical nukes can't be replicated with any commercially available 3-D printers. Right?

    Maybe there are books or online schematics freely available about how these weapons are designed, and so as well they should.
     
  4. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Well, in theory all you have to do is slam two lumps of military grade uranium or plutonium
    together in a special way, and you have your Bomb.
    Haven't looked but by now such plans should be freely available on the Internet.

    It's a joke when gun supporters think they can fight their nuclear powered government. To
    fight your government (you know, the one elected By The People) you need to learn how to
    create your own bespoke nukes. I think all groups should be able to do that - there are a lot
    of grievances which can be quickly sorted out this way.
     
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  5. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Good points:

    Information on making bombs should be freely available, but access to uranium or plutonium should be restricted. These are dangerously radioactive materials.

    Our duly elected leaders are sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution.

    Hitler was elected, but then took away people's rights and democracy. Of course, this tragedy wouldn't have ever happened if the citizenry were as well-armed as the state.
     
  6. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Of course, and assault weapons won't cut it.
    Did you know that the Trident submarines carry half of the active strategic thermonuclear warheads
    of the USA?
    Half, okay? If the citizens can control these Tridents it would give them a share of the nuclear arsenal.
    All we need to do is nominate which citizens these should be, and somehow gain control of the
    submarines and their nuclear codes.
    If the government is too strong and won't allow its own citizens to control nuclear weapons and their
    delivery systems then the citizens can bring down the government by triggering a nuclear war with
    Russia.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I doubt you'd agree if you realized that very literally every house has the stuff you need to build a very basic and very potent bomb, and it's super easy to do.
    In what election?
     
  8. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Okay, you can make a bomb and kill, what, a few dozen people max?
    A citizen nuke can kill a few hundred thousand.
    The American citizen is not going to fight the government without some
    sort of nuclear capability. Defending your freedom with a few AR15's
    simply won't cut it. The government ALLOWING you to have assault
    rifles could simply be a way for them to lull you into a false sense of
    freedom. What will you do with your gun when the government sends
    in an armored Apache helicopter?
     
    #8 PruePhillip, Sep 14, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  9. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I dunno, I have to agree with the historians who dispute the Nazi Gun Control argument.
    As if average Joe would have risked their lives to defend minority groups being targeted by Hitler. Maybe many would have regretted that in the long run had they been given that choice, but wasn't the Third Reich actually more loose with such gun control laws than their predecessors?
    I seem to recall that from my feeble historical education.

    Also, if the Government has access to nuclear weaponry, pretty sure the people aren't equally well armed by default. Unless US citizens all have plutonium in their backyards?
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Nuclear weapons wouldn't be necessary. And AR15s are sufficient enough, especially if you convert them to burst or automatic fire.
    Military arsenal is not all that determines a war. The Vietcong faced the American military machine and fought to a draw using lower tech weaponry and guerilla warfare tactics.
     
  11. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    So how did the Vietcong bring down B52 high altitude bombers?
    And shoot down US fighter aircraft?
    That Vietcong in the tunnels story is just a myth fabricated by the
    US government into making gun supporters think they can win a
    war with them*. Facts be told, North Vietnam has a vast arsenal of tanks,
    anti-aircraft missiles, fighter aircraft, mines, radars... the works.
    That's how you win a war, not fighting with AK47's.

    * conspiracy theory of my own !!!!!
     
    #11 PruePhillip, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    The Vietcong didn't lose the war.
     
  13. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    This is a different subject, but yes, I posit that the Vietcong DID lose the war.
    First they lost the Tet offensive - annihilated in fact when the South
    didn't rise up to fight with them.
    After that the North Vietnamese got involved.
    The North and the US couldn't win so they signed a peace deal.
    The North broke that deal (invading from Cambodia)
    What was left of the Vietcong played little part in the Hanoi
    controlled Vietnam. Their protests about "self determination"
    and "liberation from imperialism" fell on deaf ears.
     
  14. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    They were disbanded in 1976 when their goal was achieved and they were no longer needed.

    I thought the US goal of fighting in Vietnam was to keep the Communists from taking over, what do you think the US tried to do?
     
  15. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Just that. I take the whole war as part of Communist containment.
    Pure and simple.
    America wasn't fighting just Hanoi, it was fighting Maoist China and
    Communist Russia.
    The dominoes fell within days or weeks. Cambodia, Laos and Sth
    Vietnam. Communism failed in Indonesia and Malaysia. It's still
    at it in the Philippines I think.
     
  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    The Turner Diaries does a horrifyingly
    believable job of showing how quickly
    and completely a small group could
    overwhelm law enforcement's resources
    to investigate and control.

    Throwing nukes in a civil war?
    I doubt it.
     
  17. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Weird
     
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Vietnam drove out the Americans with the heroic
    determination of a people who'd fought foreign invaders
    for hundreds of years.
     
  19. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    After 1975 my country was host to thousands of refugees fleeing Communism.
    Many didn't make it. Large numbers were executed. Some of my friends spent
    years in "Re-education camps."
    I think about eight million people died in the Communist takeover of Indochina.
    Growing up I used to think that one day South Vietnam would be like South
    Korea - after '75 it became like North Korea.

    If you are a Marxist then certainly you can make the point that South Korea
    lives under Imperial aggressors and the North lives in a Workers Paradise.
    But by 1975 most South Vietnamese were no longer fooled by the Communists
    of the north - Southerners had a saying "Don't listen to what they say, watch what
    they do." And that's pretty sad. It's a lesson we ought to learn in watching what
    takes place in American campuses today.
     
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  20. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    That's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
     
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