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Preterism 101

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by sooda, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    (I didn't write this)

    PRETERISM 101

    www.preteristcosmos.com/preterism101.html
    PRETERISM 101 By David A. Green July, 2002. Following this brief article are 101 biblical, preterist "time-indicators." (Hence the title.) There are many more than 101 to be found in Scripture, but these are probably the most blunt and obvious of them all.

    What is Preterism?

    In short, Preterism is the theory that all (or most) of the events prophesied in the New Testament (including those in Revelation) were fulfilled in the past, specifically in 70 AD. The idea is that with the Roman siege of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple, New Testament prophecies were fulfilled.

    Full/Consistent Preterists believe this includes ALL prophecies even Jesus second advent, which they claim happened in 70 AD.

    Partial/Moderate Preterist believe that Christ's second advent was not fulfilled in 70 AD (and may also exclude other selective prophetic events as well) But that the tribulation and all it implies happened in 70 AD.

    Now, I believe that a partial or moderate preterist that believes all the essentials of the Christian Faith such as the Trinity, The virgin birth, the sinless life of Jesus, Salvation by grace alone through faith alone in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ alone as the propitiation for sins, are brothers and sisters in the faith and saved...

    1. “The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” (Matt. 3:2[​IMG])

    2. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Matt. 3:7[​IMG])

    3. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees.” (Matt. 3:10[​IMG])

    4. “His winnowing fork is in His hand.” (Matt. 3:12[​IMG])

    5. “The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matt. 4:17[​IMG])

    6. “The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matt. 10:7[​IMG])

    7. “You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes.” (Matt. 10:23[​IMG])

    8. “…the age about to come.” (Matt. 12:32[​IMG])

    9. “The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds.” (Matt. 16:27[​IMG])

    10. “There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” (Matt. 16:28[​IMG]; cf. Mk. 9:1[​IMG]; Lk. 9:27[​IMG])

    11. “‘When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?’ ‘…He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.’ ‘…Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.’ …When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.” (Matt. 21:40-41[​IMG],43[​IMG],45[​IMG])
     
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  2. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    They theorize that we are in the 1000 years now? Which is already passed.
     
  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    I think it is much simpler than that.

    excerpt:

    The entire scheme of Dispensational eschatology, though popular in recent years, has no roots in historic Christian interpretation of the Scriptures. According to preterists, the great tribulation was the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army in 70 AD. This has been the belief of Christians throughout the history of the church until the last hundred and fifty years or so. Is the "Great Tribulation" something that looms in our future or is in a past event? Is Matthew 24 talking about an event yet future or something that happened in the time of the disciples?

    The Great Tribulation is PAST! It happened in the first century.

    Let me remind you that in Matthew 24 Jesus is answering the disciples questions about the destruction of Jerusalem. They wanted to know when it would be destroyed, and what signs would precede the end of the age and His parousia. Thus far in our study we have been given two signs; the gospel would be preached to all nations and they would see the abomination of desolation. We have also seen that both of these things happened in the first century, the disciples saw these things come to pass. After talking about the abomination of desolation, which was Jerusalem surrounded by armies, Jesus talks about the great tribulation.

    Matthew 24:21 (NKJV) "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."
    "Then" is when? Within a few thousand years? The "then" is referring to the context of verses 15-20; when you see the abomination of desolation, which Luke tells us is Jerusalem surrounded by armies. Now, we already saw that this happened in 67 AD when Cestius Gallus, the Roman general, laid siege to Jerusalem. The Great Tribulation is not an event yet future to us. It was "then," during the siege of Jerusalem by the Romans in the first century. This is made abundantly clear in the parallel text in Luke's gospel.

    Luke 21:20-24 (NKJV) "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

    Notice who in particular verse 23 says the tribulation will come upon-- "the land", which is Jerusalem and "this people," which refers to the first century Jews, not the future world. Verse 24 gives us added details as to exactly what will happen in the Great Tribulation. We will look more closely at the details of verse 24 in a few moments. Right now I want us to examine:

    Luke 21:22 (NKJV) "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

    Luke tells us here that ALL things which are written will be fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem. What does he mean by that? "All things which are written," refers to prophecy. All prophecy was to be fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel tells us this very same thing in Daniel 9:24:

    Daniel was told that 70 weeks had been determined on his people Israel, and the city of Jerusalem. By the end of this prophetic time period, God promised that six things would be accomplished. One of the things that Daniel was told would happen by the end of that period was that God would "seal up vision and prophecy". The Hebrew commentaries are in agreement on the meaning of to "seal up vision and prophecy" -- they say it means the end and complete fulfillment of all prophecy.

    Daniel's prophecy, then, tells of the time when all prophecy would cease to be given and what had been given would be fulfilled. When would this be? Daniel's vision ends with the destruction of Jerusalem which we know occurred in 70 AD (Daniel 9:26):

    continued

    The Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21)
     
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  4. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    For 33 years I was steeped in Dispensational Thought. It has been dreadfully hard to get that out of my head.

    So, what about the coming of the beast, and the antiChrist?
     
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  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    "We live in the never ending age of the new covenant, the new Jerusalem, the new heavens and earth of Revelation 21 and 22."

    Not so sure about that.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The beast was Nero and/or the Caesars who followed him.. the worst of which was Domitian.

    The antichrists are followers of Christ who left the believers... at least that's what if says in scripture.
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Yeah, we are .. Jesus paid the price for us.
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The depth of this famine is so clearly seen in the gut wrenching story that Josephus tells of Mary.

    "Now there was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary; her father was Eleazar, of the village Bethezub, which signifies the House of Hyssop. She was eminent for her family and her wealth, and had fled away to Jerusalem with the rest of the multitude , and was with them besieged therein at this time. The other effects of this woman had been already seized upon; such I mean as she had brought with her out of Perea, and removed to the city.

    What she had treasured up besides, as also what food she had contrived to save, had also been carried off by the rapacious guards, who came every day running into her house for that purpose.

    This put the poor woman into a very great passion, and by the frequent reproaches and imprecations she cast at these rapacious villains, she had provoked them to anger against her; but none of them, either out of the indignation she had raised against herself, or out of the commiseration of her case, would take away her life; and if she found any food, she perceived her labours were for others, and not for herself; and it was now become impossible for her any way to find any more food, while the famine pierced through her very bowels and marrow, when also her passion was fired to a degree beyond the famine itself: nor did she consult with anything but with her passion and the necessity she was in.

    She then attempted a most unnatural thing; and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, 'O thou miserable infant! for whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition ? As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves!

    The famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us; yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other.

    Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets and a byword to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews.' As soon as she had said this, she slew her son; and then roasted him, and ate one half of him, and kept the other half by her concealed.

    Upon this the seditious come in presently, and smelling the horrid scent of this food, they threatened her that they would cut her throat immediately if she did not shew them what food she had gotten ready.

    She replied, that she had saved a very fine portion of it for them; and withal uncovered what was left of her son. Hereupon they were seized with a horror and amazement of mind, and stood astonished at the sight; when she said to them 'This is mine own son; and what hath been done was mine own doing! Come, eat of this food; for I have eaten of it myself! Do not you pretend to be either more tender than a woman, or more compassionate than a mother; but if you be so scrupulous, and do abominate this my sacrifice, as I have eaten the one half, let the rest be reserved for me also.'

    After which, those men went out trembling, being never so much affrighted at anything as they were at this, and with some difficulty they left the rest of that meat to the mother.

    Upon which, the whole city was full of horrid action immediately; and while everyone laid this miserable case before their own eyes, they trembled, as if this unheard-of-action had been done by themselves.

    So those that were thus distressed by the famine were very desirous to die; and those already dead were esteemed happy, because they had not live long enough either to hear or see such miseries." (Josephus Book VI, Chapter III, Section 4)
     
  9. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I have seen so much of Hell in my own life and that of others. If this is the reign of Jesus the Christ, I have an argument with him. How can some be so blind?
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    What do you mean?
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The point of course, is that although many of the Roman Legion warriors were citizens of the Roman Empire, it does not follow that they were men from Europe as many naturally assume.

    For some reason, possibly due to the fact that the capital of the Roman Empire was in Rome — and thus in Europe — it is easy to forget that the Roman Empire also included a vast portion of the "client kingdoms" of the Middle East as well.

    Because most of the Roman soldiers were recruited from the kingdoms and provinces where their garrisons were located, the legions that were stationed in the Middle East were the Arab and Syrian peoples of "The Levant".

    The Levant is the Eastern Mediterranean, a geographic and cultural region today that consists of Cyprus, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and part of southern Turkey.

    Commenting on the predominant Syrian make-up of the Roman Legions, the Jewish historian Josephus commented:

    "The greatest part of the Roman garrison was raised out of Syria; and being thus related to the Syrian part, they were ready to assist it." —The Wars of The Jews: History of the Destruction of Jerusalem By Flavius Josephus
    Trans. William Whiston BOOK II: CHAPTER 13 Paragraph 7.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Barely any of apocalyptic prophecies were fulfilled in the distant past, I find Preterism to be incredibly foolish and naive in most respects.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Perhaps you should study first century history and Josephus Roman wars.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    When we look back at the history of the four Roman Legions that were under Titus' command during the siege against Jerusalem, we see that the soldiers were from the Eastern portion of the Roman Empire and they were primarily from Syria and eastern Turkey.

    Let's look again at the four Legions that were led by General Titus during the Jewish-Roman war and consider the names and the locations of their garrisons as recorded by history:

    1) Legion X Fretensis (Syria), 2) Legion XV XV Apollinaris (Syria) 3) Legion XII Fulminata Melitene (Eastern Turkey Syria) and 4) Legion V Macedonica (Moesia Serbia Bulgaria)
     
  15. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The Seven Churches in Asia





    Another point is that John wrote Revelation to a specific group of churches in Asia (Revelation 1:4).

    The importance of this statement cannot be overlooked (even though it has been by many scholars). There is only one small window of time in which there were only seven churches in Asia.

    The early AD 60's.

    The apostle Paul established nine churches in that area, but only seven were addressed in Revelation.

    The reason for this is that the cities of Colosse, Hierapolis, and Laodicea, were all destroyed by an earthquake around AD 61.

    Laodicea was rebuilt soon afterwards, but the other two cities were not. This left only seven churches in Asia during the five years just prior to the beginning of the Roman/Jewish war.

    Of particular importance is the message to the church of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13). In verse's 10 and 11, Christ told John to inform them that an "hour of temptation" was "about to come upon all the world," i.e., the Roman Empire.

    Christ then told them that He was coming quickly and that they should hold fast. The reason this is important (besides the fact that this was directed to an actual church in the first century) is that the first persecution of Christians took place under Nero Caesar in AD 64.

    Therefore, Revelation must have been written before that time.
     
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