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Pretend you're the God of Christianity...

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by M O N S T E R, Apr 26, 2008.

  1. M O N S T E R

    M O N S T E R Member

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    You create the universe, then Adam and Eve, and they are perfect beings. You place them in a lush garden, into which you’ve also made a special tree. The fruit of this tree, if eaten by a human, will cause them to understand “right from wrong”, and they will thus lose their perfection (why you created such a tree is unclear, but that’s another story). At some point, you also created a sneaky snake and put it proximate to your first children. Snakes, being what they are, it’s not long before Eve is duped into eating the fruit, and she then proceeds to peer pressure Adam into eating it as well.

    Returning from wherever you were, you cannot find Adam and Eve straight away – after some searching, you find them hiding their naked bodies from you. This strikes you as odd because they wouldn’t be hiding if they weren’t ashamed/embarrassed – you’re on to them – they probably ate the fruit. Sure enough, after some probing, they come clean and admit their bad deed. This makes you mad, and so you curse all snakes with a belly crawling existence (which they don’t seem to mind too much – snakes do quite well as a species), you make it such that Eve, and all women hence, will experience great pain during childbirth (why you chose that punishment is not clear – how does knowing right from wrong translate to something about the 24 hours or so of labor?), and your punishment for man is that he will have to work for life’s necessities – as opposed to just sitting around in Eden.

    So, many years later, the many descendants of A&E are running around acting really badly. Not believing in you, fornicating, just being jerks. This makes you really mad, and so to punish them, and set an example for future people, you drown millions of men, women, and children, and also millions of animals. You spare a few humans, and two of every kind of animal (presumably because you didn’t want to have to create them again…which you could have done).

    In time, the earth repopulates itself. Humans once again act badly, but for some reason, you pay particular attention to those living in a very specific area of the globe – the middle east. Over a few centuries, you do all kinds of things like kill or have killed hundreds of thousands of people who do bad things such as not believing in you and having sex. Presumably this is to set the example of how bad it is to not believe in you, and that sex (or even thinking about it) is filthy under anything but very specific conditions.

    This still doesn’t seem to work, so you finally decide to go down there yourself – but you don’t want to just poof in like a great genie (cuz if you made your existence too obvious, you’d take the faith out of faith). So, you resolve to go down as a common man. Once down there, you cruise around for a while, in your early 20’s you preach a lot, particularly about how important you are, and how important it is to believe in you. To kick up the ante a bit, let people know you are who you say you are, you perform a miracle or two – here and there. Some believe, but still others don’t. So, you head into Jerusalem and stir things up by angering the Jews and Romans – simply by claiming to be you. So they torture and “kill” you. Being unkillable, you bide your time for a few days and then reappear. This is supposed to have the effect of REALLY making people believe you are who you say you are, and that your message is Truth and Goodness. Before you leave, you tell a few people that you’ll be back again real soon – sooner than a generation or two. Since you didn’t return, you presumably did this as yet another test of humans dedication to you.

    All while this is going on, the Devil is racing about tricking people into not believing in you and doing bad things. It’s not clear why you don’t put an end to the Devil, but the likely reason is that you want to see which humans are of strong enough character to not be tricked by him (which itself is puzzling because you made the humans and their character, and you presumably “know” the past, present, and future anyway).

    Once back in heaven, you kick back for a while and see how the humans will take the message you gave when you came down to earth. Things start slowly, your earliest fans are fed to lions by the Romans, but your message is taken up by the poor and downtrodden, who are sick and tired of the elitist, powerful Romans. A few centuries go by, the pagan Roman destroys itself, and with a man named Constantine, your message becomes seated at the top of human power. But, people being people, there is much argument/debate over what your message really is, and how it should be applied. You watch as the drama unfolds – centuries go by and your message is taken to every corner of the earth (usually at the expense of the cultures that existed prior). Great factions with differing opinions of your message manifest themselves.

    Incidentally, you never really seemed to pay much attention to people like Asians, Africans, Australians, Island peoplels, Native Americans, etc. At least not in the sense of mentioning these people in the Bible, or giving them the same set of rules as you gave Jewish people (actually, you do mention some Africans in the Bible - apparently hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians deserved to be killed because they didn't believe in you).

    Anywho, the human condition will apparently go on for a while, some people will believe in you, some won’t. And one day, as you promised in the early first century, you’ll return, all evil will be destroyed, those humans who believe/believed in you will live in great everlasting peace with you, and those who didn’t, won’t (which will presumably suck bad for them).

    And….sooooo….thennnn…..yeah….you did all that cuz why again? When you look back in retrospect, you kinda wonder what you were thinking?? Were you just bored? Did you make your children, the humans, for your entertainment? Why did you focus your attention so narrowly when you went down to earth? Why didn’t you spend more time down there? When you look back you think to yourself – You know, I am all about being perfect in everything, especially love. I guess it wasn’t the best decision to create these poor, helpless creatures, the humans, in such a manner that not all of them could experience my perfect love. A wise father treats ALL his children with respect and love, unconditionally, even if they don’t agree with his views – after all, it was HIS decision to bring them into the world. A wise father doesn’t disown a child who disagrees with him, or otherwise doesn’t follow his “rules”. And a wise father certainly doesn’t kill his children for doing these things.
     
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  2. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    Thankfullly monster, the God you wrote about is not real.
     
  3. M O N S T E R

    M O N S T E R Member

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    Unfortunately, many believe it is.
     
  4. Charity

    Charity Let's go racing boys !

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    :sleep: Uh uh oh I was just resting my eyes, :ignore:just resting my ears


    Wonder if that would sound better if you put it to music ? ........choose a new melody....one I haven't heard before preferably

    Have a good evening
     
  5. Heneni

    Heneni Miss Independent

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    I know, the real God is nothing of the sorts.
     
  6. Charity

    Charity Let's go racing boys !

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    There's the Holy Bible then there's his version...
     
  7. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    Everyone sees things differently. I certainly didn't get the ideas you did from Genesis and the Bible. There is nothing unusual about that, though.
     
  8. Alceste

    Alceste Vagabond

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    The vast majority of Christians I know don't have nearly as simplistic and anthropomorphic a concept of God as this. There is a whole lot of wiggle room there. For example, hardly any Christians outside the US believe the Bible is the literal truth, and they don't think of God as some great puppeteer.

    IME, most Christians I know enjoy a personal relationship with a god who is an invisible manifestation of love and guidance available to anytime their hearts are open to receive his grace. Also, I think most Christians are aware that the bible is just a book. A holy book, sure, but not holy because God wrote it himself and everything in it is literally true. It's holy because within the tangle of myth, symbolism, history, bizarre Levitican directives and biography there is a strong message of love, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance and faith.

    I'm including ALL the Christians I know, not just the two or three fundamentalists. It's unfair to base your impression of the whole of Christianity on the bizarre world view of a minority, no matter how loudly they insist they are the only TRUE Christians.
     
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  9. Don Penguinoini

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  10. TurkeyOnRye

    TurkeyOnRye Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, but your claim just doesn't follow. Half of the christian bible preaches hatred, submission and intolerance and I can almost guarantee that since its inception, it was meant to be taken as literal truth. People back then didn't know half the things we know now; they were very ignorant people. Of course, not many people take the bible as all literal truth today; they are cherry-pickers and it's ridiculous to claim that any significant part of it is true because now people know better.
     
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  11. logician

    logician Well-Known Member

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    Define, "not many" I would put the number in the hundreds of millions, if not more, sad to say, old myths die hard.
     
  12. Ratiocinative

    Ratiocinative Member

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    The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was put there to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey God or to not obey God. If the only choice is to obey God then there really isn't any choice at all and there would be no point in creating Earth in the first place. God wants people to choose to worship him voluntarily, so a choice was needed for people to be able to make.

    Other than that, I'm really not sure what you are asking or implying. Please be more specific.
     
  13. M O N S T E R

    M O N S T E R Member

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    God himself created man and woman and placed them in a garden, in "his own image", but got righteously angry at them when they ate, against his wish, and after being tempted by a talking serpent that god himself had somehow allowed to slither about in the garden, a tasty, beautiful fruit, though he himself had placed it there but neglected to instill in his creations the knowledge of good and evil so that they would know it was wrong to eat it. Being omniscient, of course, he knew all this before he started, but was apparently unable to do anything about it because he had planned it this way from the beginning, and apparently god cannot change anything he already knows, in spite of the fact that he's omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.

    Later, God himself impregnated a virgin so that he himself could be born a human, a ManGod. This was necessary, apparently, because only his own ManGod blood could appease himself and deliver humans, who he created, and who he knew would muck things up by eating the fruit, from his own righteous anger.

    Of course, he waited several thousand years to implement this divine plan, in the meantime taking the righteous action of drowning every creature on the planet except a few he could stuff on a boat. Not to mention handing down a Law that served to further condemn every one of us, and in which Law he himself had them frequently sacrifice animals to appease himself, though he knew the blood of animals didn't really appease himself.

    Much later, god, in a garden, prayed to himself to "take this cup" away from himself, though he himself knew that he himself had planned the coming events from the beginning and knew that not even he himself could save himself, even though he was god and omnipotent, omniscient, etc. Accepting this, he said, in effect, "Not my will, but my will."

    God then sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. (or had himself sacrificed; not much of a distinction between the two, really) Before dying, he himself asked he himself why he had forsaken himself.

    He himself, being dead, then raised himself from the dead less than 40 hours later, though he himself had said he'd be dead for three days and three nights, which he could do because he was still alive, and later he himself pulled himself up into heaven where he himself apparently already was, and where he himself is described as now sitting at the right hand of himself.

    He himself then sent himself (or a ghost of himself, if you please) back to earth to be a comfort to us, though he himself is still sitting at the right hand of himself.

    And, glory hallelujah, he himself promised that he himself will return someday, though he himself is already here, and will still be there, to snatch up those who believe the god blood sacrifice story he himself told us, and kill the rest of us who don't believe the god blood sacrifice story, no matter how nice we were otherwise. But, since killing us isn't enough to appease his righteousness, he himself will then judge us, though according to ManGod he himself will also not judge us, and being a god of love will cast most of us into hell for an eternity of suffering. He has to, of course, because he is a righteous, just god, and can't figure out a way to save anyone who hasn't been redeemed by god-blood, even though he is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, and loves us all.
     
  14. Papersock

    Papersock Lucid Dreamer

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    This argument never made sense to me. People could still refuse to worship such a god even if it did make itself obvious.
     
  15. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    seems like a fair enough representation of the Abrahamic God as any other i've seen.
     
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  16. Alceste

    Alceste Vagabond

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    Logician, TurkeyonRye, I think if you are in the states your perspective will inevitably be skewed by the special brand of fundie legalists you just don't find elsewhere. Ie. In Canada I met only ONE of them, and he'd hit his head rather hard as a child.

    With regards to the violence in the old testament, the majority of Christians believe the gospels (ie. the part of the bible specifically telling the story of Jesus) signified a new era - a change of heart for god, if you like. Jesus preached the gospel of love, he was merciful and compassionate, and he was the embodiment of God. With Jesus appearance, the god of the Old testament ceased to be. That is why it was such "Good news". (Good news! God's not a serial killer after all!)

    You really mustn't lump everyone together like this. I'd say hundreds of millions is a gross exaggeration. I think the biblical literalist phenomenon is almost entirely contained within the southern US Baptist community (and I hope to God it doesn't leak!) My suspicion is that perhaps a low rate of literacy might contribute - the Bible is quite a tough slog even for the most avid reader.
     
  17. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    Well, when you put it like that it actually makes a lot of sense. ;)
     
  18. Don Penguinoini

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    Well, well done for saying God of Christianity and not just God. I appreciate that.
     
  19. Phasmid

    Phasmid Mr Invisible

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    M O N S T E R, good posts. If you take the Bible litterally, you get the problems your posts were hinting at (that it's insane). But if you don't take it litterally, you create divides between people... and then there's the problem of which parts are litteral and which are symbolic... and all that creates confusion and yet God will still fry people who are confused, even though they have every right to be? Hence why I give up on all this religion crap. My family are non-believers, I'd rather not worry about them frying in Hell, I'll go there with them.
     
  20. Magic Man

    Magic Man Reaper of Conversation

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    I can only hope that America is a skewed representation of the amounts of literalists and non-literalists. The problem is that you're not just talking about those two groups. I think the majority of people fall somewhere in between. There are people like my parents, who don't take everything literally, but believe that the Bible is the word of God, and is to be taken as more than just some stories and myths to guide and teach us. They are also very intelligent, normal people in every respect. I think the way you said that people look at it is a good way, but not many people here see it that way, including my parents.
     
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