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President Trump to issue new guidance asserting students' right to pray in schools

We Never Know

No Slack
The White House said the president will welcome a group of students of Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths to the Oval Office as he issues the updated guidance affirming constitutional protections for expressions of religion in public schools. In taking the action, Grogan said the president will be updating guidance that hasn’t been adapted since 2003.

Grogan pointed to the case of a group of middle school students in Texas who were repeatedly told not to pray in their school cafeteria during lunch break by the school principal, a decision that was later reversed by school district officials, to highlight why the updated guidance is needed.

Speaking at a Miami church in early January, Trump hinted that the action would be made official today -- Jan. 16.
"Very soon, I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools," Trump said. "They want to take that right along with many other ones."

In addition to the rights of students, Grogan said the administration will take steps to make sure the federal government is being consistent in not discriminating against organizations because of a religious designation, with nine government agencies set to release proposed rules.

In amplifying the president’s message, the Department of Education is set to send a letter to state education secretaries reminding them of students’ protected First Amendment religious rights.

President Trump to issue new guidance asserting students' right to pray in schools
 

leov

Well-Known Member
The White House said the president will welcome a group of students of Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths to the Oval Office as he issues the updated guidance affirming constitutional protections for expressions of religion in public schools. In taking the action, Grogan said the president will be updating guidance that hasn’t been adapted since 2003.

Grogan pointed to the case of a group of middle school students in Texas who were repeatedly told not to pray in their school cafeteria during lunch break by the school principal, a decision that was later reversed by school district officials, to highlight why the updated guidance is needed.

Speaking at a Miami church in early January, Trump hinted that the action would be made official today -- Jan. 16.
"Very soon, I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools," Trump said. "They want to take that right along with many other ones."

In addition to the rights of students, Grogan said the administration will take steps to make sure the federal government is being consistent in not discriminating against organizations because of a religious designation, with nine government agencies set to release proposed rules.

In amplifying the president’s message, the Department of Education is set to send a letter to state education secretaries reminding them of students’ protected First Amendment religious rights.

President Trump to issue new guidance asserting students' right to pray in schools
5“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6“But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."
Manipulating ignorance.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I don't care if they pray.
Smoking however, our High School had a "Smokers Corner" where the smokers were allowed to smoke. Glad they got rid of that.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
The White House said the president will welcome a group of students of Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths to the Oval Office as he issues the updated guidance affirming constitutional protections for expressions of religion in public schools. In taking the action, Grogan said the president will be updating guidance that hasn’t been adapted since 2003.

Grogan pointed to the case of a group of middle school students in Texas who were repeatedly told not to pray in their school cafeteria during lunch break by the school principal, a decision that was later reversed by school district officials, to highlight why the updated guidance is needed.

Speaking at a Miami church in early January, Trump hinted that the action would be made official today -- Jan. 16.
"Very soon, I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools," Trump said. "They want to take that right along with many other ones."

In addition to the rights of students, Grogan said the administration will take steps to make sure the federal government is being consistent in not discriminating against organizations because of a religious designation, with nine government agencies set to release proposed rules.

In amplifying the president’s message, the Department of Education is set to send a letter to state education secretaries reminding them of students’ protected First Amendment religious rights.

President Trump to issue new guidance asserting students' right to pray in schools
Reckon I will wait till I can read the actual item...
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
5“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6“But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."
Manipulating ignorance.
Well that covers the Jewish part of things....
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member

I'm not against this at all, so long as it's done on their "free" time -- whether that is lunch or any after-school club or whatever. Doing anything else just leads to problems like school administration basically enforcing a set of beliefs.

Of course I'm also for pagans, satanists, and even atheists being able to do whatever they feel is required by their faith or lack thereof as well in that same period of time.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
You're big on opinion, but short on evidence & argument.
So,
It's just my opinion that Trump promised to reignite conflict with Iran.
Got it.

And maybe Trump's legal battle with a hooker is just my opinion.
And maybe Trump's birtherism is just my opinion.
And maybe Trump's campaign promises to release his tax returns is just my opinion.

Trump supporters did get your tax cuts. I can understand why little else matters.
Tom

Of course, this is all just my opinion.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I wonder....will he affirm my right to blaspheme in school?
Now that is a most interesting question.

I, for one, am perfectly content to allow anyone to pray, whenever they want. Even when I'm hosting guests and serving up one of my spectacular meals, if one in my company would prefer to say grace, I'm quite content to let him -- without comment.

But I think that a student who legitimately doesn't believe in the existence of any gods, and says so in a non-threatening way in front of whoever is present, is quite within his rights.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Students and teachers are already allowed to pray in school. They're just not allowed to use taxpayer paid school time to do it. E.g. leading prayer during class time.

It always helps to read the article. What you speak of isn't the issue ..

"Grogan pointed to the case of a group of middle school students in Texas who were repeatedly told not to pray in their school cafeteria during lunch break by the school principal, a decision that was later reversed by school district officials, to highlight why the updated guidance is needed."
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It always helps to read the article. What you speak of isn't the issue ..

"Grogan pointed to the case of a group of middle school students in Texas who were repeatedly told not to pray in their school cafeteria during lunch break by the school principal, a decision that was later reversed by school district officials, to highlight why the updated guidance is needed."
Then the school was in the wrong. It's already national law that people can use free time to pray.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Students and teachers are already allowed to pray in school. They're just not allowed to use taxpayer paid school time to do it. E.g. leading prayer during class time.

That's not altogether true. A lawsuit was made against a school district in Utah because a school there allowed student led clubs to use classrooms after school to meet in. They had LBGT meetings, Stamp club meetings, American Atheist youth meetings, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, cheerleaders, English, math and Language clubs. A local Christian (not Mormon...I know it was Utah, but in Utah the Mormons have off campus facilities to do this) group of students wanted to meet for a bible study class after school, on the same terms as everybody else.

They were refused. And they were sued. The Christians won; the judge said that the school COULD NOT discriminate against student led clubs because of religion. So...were the Christians allowed to have their bible class?

No. The school then forbade ANY group from meeting in classrooms after school.

When this decision came down, the local Mormons (remember I said that the Mormons already had off campus facilities for this?) offered to let the Christian club meet in their facilities. As far as I know, they still meet there.

I do NOT support forced prayer in schools. At all. However, 'they' are going way too far. Telling a prayer group that they ARE NOT ALLOWED to meet and have a voluntary prayer in the morning before classes under the flag pole is wrong. However, the kids in my old high school were told just that. In fact, when they ignored the principal and met there anyway, the cops got called. Now this was not forced; every kid there was there voluntarily, and they were no where near any classrooms or other school office or facility...it was just off the parking lot.

At the SAME TIME, this same school has set aside two classrooms so that Muslim students can go there and pray during the day when it is time for them to do so.

BTW, I approve of setting the classrooms aside, if there are classrooms available.
But why do that at the same time they forbid voluntary prayer just outside the parking lot, if the kids praying are Christian?

If Trump is clarifying that to insure that individual students have the right to freedom of speech and religion outside the classroom, I fail to see the problem with that.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not against this at all, so long as it's done on their "free" time -- whether that is lunch or any after-school club or whatever. Doing anything else just leads to problems like school administration basically enforcing a set of beliefs.

Of course I'm also for pagans, satanists, and even atheists being able to do whatever they feel is required by their faith or lack thereof as well in that same period of time.

I regularly do what I feel is required by my lack of faith. The nice thing is it's not very time consuming, and no-one seems to notice.

On a more serious note, though, I agree.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Now that is a most interesting question.

I, for one, am perfectly content to allow anyone to pray, whenever they want. Even when I'm hosting guests and serving up one of my spectacular meals, if one in my company would prefer to say grace, I'm quite content to let him -- without comment.

But I think that a student who legitimately doesn't believe in the existence of any gods, and says so in a non-threatening way in front of whoever is present, is quite within his rights.

Sorry, total tangent, but this happened to us. Our Christian friends came over, and we really didn't care when their son (quite young at the time) decided to say grace. More power to him.

He was far from happy when we DIDN'T say grace. My kids were confused by the whole thing, so it was a nice chance to explain other people's beliefs. Hopefully he also decides other people are entitled to their beliefs and make similar space for them.

His father is fairly...well...passionate (which eventually put quite a bit of pressure on our friendship) so we'll see.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Now that is a most interesting question.

I, for one, am perfectly content to allow anyone to pray, whenever they want. Even when I'm hosting guests and serving up one of my spectacular meals, if one in my company would prefer to say grace, I'm quite content to let him -- without comment.

But I think that a student who legitimately doesn't believe in the existence of any gods, and says so in a non-threatening way in front of whoever is present, is quite within his rights.
This is how I felt about the pledge of allegiance, which was the version of all of this way back when I was young. It was required to stand and put your hand on your breast and at least appear to be reciting the pledge of allegiance.

Even though I had liked the pledge before that school, and even though I was only in 3rd grade, I began to gradually resent the pledge, and began to intentionally mispronounce words, and then substitute in new words, etc.

:)

Students and teachers are already allowed to pray in school. They're just not allowed to use taxpayer paid school time to do it. E.g. leading prayer during class time.

To at least some that truly believe (so that it's not merely a form or a tradition), having someone "lead" an public prayer is often quite odious in actual experience, what the speaker prays for, and additionally just the whole thing feels so insincere and even offensive.
 
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