Premarital Sex and the Bible

[Rational Agnostic]

At this point, again, the study says it was a causation. I understand the difference but the study is a causation and not a correclation.

Unless, that is what you want it to be.

And, of course, there is absolutely no study that says "check your used mate sexual compatibility" makes a successful marriage.

There is no way to determine that it is both a causation and a correlation, so, if the study authors said that it was a causation, they were asserting something that simply cannot be asserted without more evidence. I know that it may seem like I am being too persnickety about this, but I really am not, and you'd be surprised how many "statisticians" assert that causations exist when it actually cannot be proven that they do. Most of the time, they do this because they know that this will make their publishers more excited to publish the report, and therefore give them more monetary gain. But in any case, believe as you wish.

 

[Kenny]

But in any case, believe as you wish.

Amen to that!

Then again, just because sometimes statiticians cannot prove something doesn't translate in that they never prove something.

 

[Trailblazer]

"God wants". What does that mean to you? I think that if God wants something done a certain way it would not matter what religion a person is.

You are right. God wants everyone to recognize the new Messenger He sent, Baha'u'llah; otherwise, why would God have sent Him?

If they did they recognize Baha'u'llah they would be subject to following the Laws of the Baha'i Faith.

I think it is honest for you to say that your religion forbids something, but you say GOD forbids something. The God whom I believe in is God over all.

I believe that God forbids it through the Laws of my religion, but the teachings of my religion state that only those who are Baha'is are subject to Baha'i Laws. In other words, if one makes the commitment to become a Baha'i they are then subject to Baha'i Laws. The Laws are for our own benefit and we take them seriously because we believe they came from God through Baha'u'llah. Sometimes we fall short, but we do the best we can.

The God I believe in is also the God over all. God does not reject people just because they do not accept His new Messenger. It has to be a choice because we all have free will. Meanwhile, it is most important how we live and what is in our hearts.

1: O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.
The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah

 

[Trailblazer]

I understand that and I agree. So, to have some male company must I find a Baha'i man? I trust he would not have me. That means for me to be righteous in the sight of God I should be alone. I don't know if I want to be alone.

I am kind of confused. Do you mean that you have only two choices, be alone or have sex with the man you are with? Are you saying no man would have you unless you had sex with him so you would end up alone?

 

[savagewind]

I am kind of confused. Do you mean that you have only two choices, be alone or have sex with the man you are with? Are you saying no man would have you unless you had sex with him so you would end up alone?

I want to kiss, hug and snuggle with a man. Why else would I want one? But, those things lead to intercourse sooner or later. They just do!

 

[savagewind]

I am kind of confused. Do you mean that you have only two choices, be alone or have sex with the man you are with? Are you saying no man would have you unless you had sex with him so you would end up alone?

Now I am imagining dating. So, how do I say that there will be no sex until we are married? LOL
And will he sign a prenup?

 

[Trailblazer]

I am pretty certain that I can do without sexual intercourse. But, I think that any man who will love me might want it. Do you understand? @Trailblazer
I am NOT going to make him marry me for it. That is just plain mean, imo.

Do people have to have everything they want just because they want it? I consider that selfish.

If a man is not willing to marry a woman he professes to love then I would not want that man. If he cannot marry her right away then he can wait to have sex. Otherwise I would assume it was not really love that he wanted, but only sex.

I understand this is not the way of the world nowadays, I am just saying it is possible to wait and I know others besides me who have waited.

I would not care what a man wants. For me principles are everything. I would rather be alone than compromise my principles. If a man did not understand that I would not want him. He can find someone else.

I have a friend who has been living with a man for over 15 years. She wants to get married but he won’t marry her. I would not tolerate that, it is not right.

My best friend in high school slept around. Even though she used birth control she got pregnant. She kept the baby and had other children but gave up her dreams of going to college.

My only sister was afraid of losing her boyfriend so she had sex with him when she was a teenager. She got pregnant and had an abortion. She felt guilty about that for the rest of her life. She also contracted a virus that caused the cervical cancer she died from about 35 years later, leaving behind her daughter who was only 12 years old. She was only 53 years old when she died. I miss her.

There are a lot of reasons not to have sex before marriage other than religious reasons.

 

[savagewind]

Do people have to have everything they want just because they want it? I consider that selfish.

Just like I said, I do not know how it is with them.

If a man is not willing to marry a woman he professes to love then I would not want that man. If he cannot marry her right away then he can wait to have sex. Otherwise I would assume it was not really love that he wanted, but only sex.

Companionship? Why do they call sex, "making love"?

I think that true love is forever. Next time I choose someone to be with it will be because I trust that he also thinks so. But, to want to be with a person for the rest of your life it is good to get to know him or her first. I would be with a man to get to know him and he me. Love isn't right away. Sex probably shouldn't be right away either.

 

[savagewind]

I am "over the hill". The man I might end up with is also "over the hill". Old age is a time to be close to another like King David was old and they got Abishag to be with him to warm and comfort him. It is likely that they didn't have sex, but old people have sex and it is OK. But my point is that old age is the time for lying together to keep warm and friendly.

I had a husband. It was because we had sex that he and I married. It was a bad match. So, I know you are right @Trailblazer. Our marriage was not warm and friendly and now people say that I can't have warm and friendly unless I am married or unless I abandon my conscience. I don't want to do either. It's too late, imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

I want to kiss, hug and snuggle with a man. Why else would I want one? But, those things lead to intercourse sooner or later. They just do!

Why else would you want a man? I want a man for company, to talk to when I need someone to talk to, to understand my pain and empathize with me, to take care of me when I am sick, to help take care of the cats. I also like him driving me to the grocery store, putting my bike on the bike rack on the car and helping me do my grocery shopping.

It is also against Baha’i Law to kiss a man precisely because it leads to wanting to do more things. I am not saying that everyone adheres to that Law; only that it exists. I am nobody’s judge or hall monitor.

When I was younger sex was a big deal so I understand. I now have too any other more important things to do.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now I am imagining dating. So, how do I say that there will be no sex until we are married? LOL
And will he sign a prenup?

I dated a lot before I got married and they were not Baha'is. I just said no. They did not leave me, they understood. Two men even wanted to marry me but I was not ready to get married.

I guess society has deteriorated a lot since I was younger.

I do not know what you mean about a prenup...

 

[savagewind]

Why else would you want a man? I want a man for company, to talk to when I need someone to talk to, to understand my pain and empathize with me, to take care of me when I am sick, to help take care of the cats. I also like him driving me to the grocery store, putting my bike on the bike rack on the car and helping me do my grocery shopping.

It is also against Baha’i Law to kiss a man precisely because it leads to wanting to do more things. I am not saying that everyone adheres to that Law; only that it exists. I am nobody’s judge or hall monitor.

When I was younger sex was a big deal so I understand. I now have too any other more important things to do.

I was married for thirty-two years without company, someone to talk to, to understand my pain and empathize with me, to take care of me when I was sick........(he did take care of my daughter's cat which she left here) so those are not things that I can possibly expect from anyone. I can expect that he and I will want to get close. Physically close. And.....we have.......and I felt guilty after. But why? Because it is wrong or because of the Bible? Is God really so easily offended?

 

[savagewind]

I dated a lot before I got married and they were not Baha'is. I just said no. They did not leave me, they understood. Two men even wanted to marry me but I was not ready to get married.

I guess society has deteriorated a lot since I was younger.

I do not know what you mean about a prenup...

A prenuptial agreement. I am not needy and I don't want to end up with someone who needs me for what I have. Marriage makes what is mine his too. That is scary.

 

[Trailblazer]

Just like I said, I do not know how it is with them.
Companionship? Why do they call sex, "making love"?

People should not call it that because sex is not love and love is not sex. Below is an excerpt from a friend on another forum who gave me permission to quote his post:

"Ah, but that is conflating love and sex (which, yeah, people do all the time). Sex is not love and love is not sex, nor is there any necessary relationship between the two. In human beings it is true that sex typically plays a bonding role in a certain type of loving relationship, but it's not necessary to it (however much people think it is). We love lots of people who we would (unless something is wrong with us) never consider having sex with: children, parents, close friends, etc. One might even add household pets to the list."

I think that true love is forever. Next time I choose someone to be with it will be because I trust that he also thinks so. But, to want to be with a person for the rest of your life it is good to get to know him or her first. I would be with a man to get to know him and he me. Love isn't right away. Sex probably shouldn't be right away either.

I kind of did it backwards but it worked out anyway. I fell in love with my husband the first week and he with me, and we got married two weeks later. I should have known more about him before we got married but I am sure I would have married him anyway even if I had waited. I saw no reason to wait. I had already waited 32 years and he had waited 42.

There are things you only find out after you live with someone for a while but if you know their character that is the most important thing. We had some things to work out but I was not wrong about my husband's character.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am "over the hill". The man I might end up with is also "over the hill". Old age is a time to be close to another like King David was old and they got Abishag to be with him to warm and comfort him. It is likely that they didn't have sex, but old people have sex and it is OK. But my point is that old age is the time for lying together to keep warm and friendly.

Old age for me is about companionship and having somebody I can trust, somebody who cares. I could still have sex and so could my husband who is 10 years older than me, but we have too many other things to do, not the least of which is taking care of 11 Persian cats which we both love dearly.

I had a husband. It was because we had sex that he and I married. It was a bad match. So, I know you are right @Trailblazer. Our marriage was not warm and friendly and now people say that I can't have warm and friendly unless I am married or unless I abandon my conscience. I don't want to do either. It's too late, imo.

You should follow your own conscience or you will be sorry later, but that does not mean you should do what I say because I am a different person and I have a different conscience and a religion I try to live by which you are not bound by.

It is never too late. One never knows what is in the cards, only God knows. My brother was married for 28 years, a perfect marriage, and then she died of cancer. He did not like being alone so he went on a Baha’i dating website but he did not find anyone compatible there. Then he went on eharmony and he met his present wife. Oddly enough, she just happened to be a Baha’i. They are very happy and in many ways she is a better match than his first wife. He just got lucky. He does astrology and he said it was in his chart that his life would be easy and it has been. My life has been a lot more difficult, even in the marriage, but I am one to stick it out and I am glad I did. A lot of the problems we had were because of me and I had to change a lot so it was good for both of us. He had some changing to do too.

I have said that if my husband dies I will go on a site like eharmony and find another husband but I do not know if I will. I do not like to think about the future at all. I will deal with it when the time comes. My life could not get much worse than it has been, I keep thinking...

 

[Trailblazer]

I was married for thirty-two years without company, someone to talk to, to understand my pain and empathize with me, to take care of me when I was sick........(he did take care of my daughter's cat which she left here) so those are not things that I can possibly expect from anyone. I can expect that he and I will want to get close. Physically close. And.....we have.......and I felt guilty after. But why? Because it is wrong or because of the Bible? Is God really so easily offended?

I guess you mean another man and you wanted to get physically close, then you felt guilty. I think that if people feel guilty that is because they have a sense of shame and know what is right, not because of the Bible, because many Christians believe in the Bible and still have sex when they shouldn't. I had no religion at all when I was younger but I felt guilty about having sex outside of wedlock and that is the primary reason I didn't. I also did not want to get pregnant or get a disease.

God is not offended at all because God is fully self-sufficient, above the need for any of His creatures. What God enjoins us to do is for our own good., because God loves us and wants what is best for us.

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 140

 

[Trailblazer]

A prenuptial agreement. I am not needy and I don't want to end up with someone who needs me for what I have. Marriage makes what is mine his too. That is scary.

Ah, I understand. I see nothing wrong with such an agreement.

If I ever got married again I would have one of those because I have a lot of assets.