Premarital Sex and the Bible

[Skwim]

It has been forbidden by Paul... You do not get to choose.

1 Corinthians 7:2

"Fornication" in 1 Corinthians 7:2 appears in only 11 out of 59 (19%) of the Bibles I checked.

And of course I get to choose, and I go along with the vast majority, 81%, of the Bible translations. The question is, why don't you? Why do you side with the slim minority? The answer, obviously, is that cherry-picking is far more profitable for you; even if you have to scrape the bottom of the pile. Want to know what that looks like, graphically?

Bible translations that
use "fornication"
don't use "fornication"
​

The 59 Bible translations
.....of 1 Corinthians 7:2​

.​

 

[Trailblazer]

Except for many reasons:

1) You can hire someone and be "compatible"
2) Statistically, success goes does if you have sex before marriage
3) It's the soul compatibility that makes the difference

Someone has fed you a lie.

"Fornication" in 1 Corinthians 7:2 appears in only 11 out of 59 (19%) of the Bibles I checked.

And of course I get to choose, and I go along with the vast majority, 81%, of the Bible translations. The question is, why don't you? Why do you side with the slim minority? The answer, obviously, is that cherry-picking is far more profitable for you; even if you have to scrape the bottom of the pile. Want to know what that looks like, graphically?

Bible translations that
use "fornication"
don't use "fornication"
​

The 59 Bible translations
.....of 1 Corinthians 7:2​

.​

It really does not matter if the word fornication is IN the verses.
In the context of the verses it is obvious that Paul means that Fornication = sexual immorality.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Weddings can be big as they can be "I pronounce you man and wife" with no fanfare. How many have you done? I remember one church where after the sermon he said "Are you just living together and have decided that you want to please God and get married, come up now!" 6 couples came and he pronounced them "man and wife" and said "Go get the legal documents and I willl sign them".

People have different tastes, I guess. I just don't see the point.

OHhhhhh... So you are saying God will ONLY work through perfect people! OOPS! Scratch the whole world out!

Well, obviously God works with flawed systems. What bothers me is that He then blames those systems for being flawed.

I KNOW there is a point here... was it the period after the first sentence?

Did you see who I quoted? It was about how terrible single parent families are, but yet apparently Jesus had one.

uses 'sexual immoral' many places with includes that

But if you are in a culture without such hang-ups, you wouldn't see it as immoral. I think marrying girls around the time of their first period is immoral, but it didn't stop Joseph. I think marrying siblings is immoral and genetically stupid, but it didn't stop multiple people in the bible. I think having 700 wives and 300 concubines is immoral, but that didn't stop Solomon.

When in proper order, it would be also classified as a blood covenant. This definition is in context of two virgins of opposite sex.

I dunno. I still think the only way Adam and God could figure out Adam wasn't compatible with the other lifeforms in Eden was if (T)hey used trial and error.

Why can't people just face reality? God does not want people having sex outside of marriage, period.

Matthew 22:

23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, 24 asking, “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up children for his brother.’ 25 Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; 26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. 27 Last of all, the woman died. 28 In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her.”

29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not [m]understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

God loves weddings so much they don't count after you're dead.

It has been forbidden by Paul... You do not get to choose.

Oh, well, PAUL said it was bad, so ....

 

[Skwim]

It really does not matter if the word fornication is IN the verses.

But it was you who put so much importance on the fact that it did matter. NOT me. You even cited almost 20 verse with fornication in it, and now you say none of them matter? Changing horses midstream doesn't impress . . . at all.

In the context of the verses it is obvious that Paul means that Fornication = sexual immorality.

No it it isn't at all obvious. What is obvious is that you're so driven to believe that fornication is sexually immoral that you'll go to extreme lengths--think of your miserly 19% here---to back up your claim.

Sorry, but your argument is a

.​

 

[Trailblazer]

But it was you who put so much importance on the fact that it did matter. NOT me. You even cited almost 20 verse with fornication in it, and now you say none of them matter? Changing horses midstream doesn't impress . . . at all.


No it it isn't at all obvious. What is obvious is that you're so driven to believe that fornication is sexually immoral that you'll go to extreme lengths--think of your miserly 19% here---to back up your claim.

Sorry, but your argument has fallen through.

.​

Most good Christians know that fornication is against what the Bible teaches and they do not make excuses for their immoral behavior. The sexual behavior of people in modern society is downright appalling. I do not care what you and others think, I only care what God thinks.

I am sure this won’t get us any converts, but the Law of God is now very clear. It only applies to Baha'is, so no worries... Everyone else can keep doing what they are doing, living for the things of the flesh.

From the Book of Laws which is the Most Holy Book of the Baha’i Faith:

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

'The Bahá'í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expressions such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá'ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.'

"In response to another letter enquiring if there were any legitimate way in which a person could express the sex instinct if, for some reason, he were unable to marry or if outer circumstances such as economic factors were to cause him to delay marriage, the Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:

'Concerning your question whether there are any legitimate forms of expression of the sex instinct outside of marriage: According to the Bahá'í Teachings no sexual act can be considered lawful unless performed between lawfully married persons. Outside of marital life there can be no lawful or healthy use of the sex impulse. The Bahá'í youth should, on the one hand, be taught the lesson of self-control which, when exercised, undoubtedly has a salutary effect on the development of character and of personality in general, and on the other should be advised, nay even encouraged, to contract marriage while still young and in full possession of their physical vigour. Economic factors, no doubt, are often a serious hindrance to early marriage but in most cases are only an excuse, and as such should not be over stressed.'

"In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual believer, the secretary writes:

'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex...'

"This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Except for many reasons:

1) You can hire someone and be "compatible"
2) Statistically, success goes does if you have sex before marriage
3) It's the soul compatibility that makes the difference

Someone has fed you a lie.

Please enlighten me as to what "goes does" means.

 

[Kenny]

Please enlighten me as to what "goes does" means.

Sorry, even I would have a difficulty understanding... success diminishes statistically when there is sex before marriage.

There isn't a lot of soul to soul communication when emotions are running high. After marriage, reality sets in.

Not saying there aren't successes, but divorce rates increase when there is sex before marriage.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Sorry, even I would have a difficulty understanding... success diminishes statistically when there is sex before marriage.

There isn't a lot of soul to soul communication when emotions are running high. After marriage, reality sets in.

Not saying there aren't successes, but divorce rates increase when there is sex before marriage.

OK, now I understand what you're saying. You do understand correlation does not necessarily indicate causation, correct? It could well be that the people who abstained from sex until marriage also happened to be more likely to take their committment to their partner seriously (perhaps for religious reasons), and thus, were less likely to divorce them. There are other possibilities as well, but there is no evidence that premarital sex *causes* increased divorce rates even though they are correlated. For instance, sales of hot chocalate are correlated with increases in snow-and-ice related accidents. Correlation, not causation.

 

[Skwim]

Most good Christians know that fornication is against what the Bible teaches and they do not make excuses for their immoral behavior. The sexual behavior of people in modern society is downright appalling. I do not care what you and others think, I only care what God thinks.

Then why bother engaging me in conversation? You could have saved both of us a lot of time and energy by just remaining silent. Consider yourself on "Ignore."

.

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[Kenny]

OK, now I understand what you're saying. You do understand correlation does not necessarily indicate causation, correct? It could well be that the people who abstained from sex until marriage also happened to be more likely to take their committment to their partner seriously (perhaps for religious reasons), and thus, were less likely to divorce them. There are other possibilities as well, but there is no evidence that premarital sex *causes* increased divorce rates even though they are correlated. For instance, sales of hot chocalate are correlated with increases in snow-and-ice related accidents. Correlation, not causation.

Actually, there is a correlation. It was a study.

Study: Definite Link between Premarital Sex, Cohabitation, and Divorce | WaitingTillMarriage.org

 

[Kenny]

Then why bother engaging me in conversation? You could have saved both of us a lot of time and energy by just remaining silent. Consider yourself on "Ignore."
.

I'm not quite understanding. What is your point in all of this?

 

[Skwim]

I'm not quite understanding. What is your point in all of this?

That you don't understand is quite alright. It's not necessary.

.

.

 

[Kenny]

That you don't understand is quite alright. It's not necessary.

.

.

But I know you had a reason to start all of this.

 

[savagewind]

Knowing how they will function sexually is not knowing about them as a person. Knowing them is knowing their character. Any issues related to sex can be addressed if people love each other and are committed to one another and making the marriage work, and if not the marriage was not worth anything.

A person's character is pretty much set by age five so that is what is important to know. The only programs I have time to watch on TV anymore are Forensic Files and Investigation Discovery. On those programs is the evidence that sex does not make a marriage work. Of course there us so much more evidence than we see on true crime dramas.

What do you think happens when people get older and can no longer have sex? If their marriage was based upon sex they have nothing left.

I know all of this by personal experience because I got married three weeks after I met my husband. I was 32 and he was 42 and we were both virgins. We had some problems but nothing that a good sex therapist could not address. We kept that guy in business for about a year, but after that it was smooth sailing. Anyone can learn to drive a car and once you learn you do not forget.

Sexual problems in a marriage are usually symptomatic of other problems in the marriage, not the cause of them. Finding another sexual partner that seems to be more desirable does not solve the problem because people normally carry their relationship problems to the next relationship.

Do you understand that it is easy for you to side with the extreme interpretation of what was written because doing it that way worked for you?
I understand that your interpretation of the words is that it is the only righteous way according to the will of God. I believe it is the best way. I just don't believe that any other way is a sin.

What are some reasons two people will have sex but not be married? Companionship, comfort, health. So, why not marry? It might not be practical. The two might not live together and might not want to. Maybe financially it is not beneficial. Maybe one or both came from a bad relationship and they are worried about making it a second time.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you understand that it is easy for you to side with the extreme interpretation of what was written because doing it that way worked for you?

I understand that your interpretation of the words is that it is the only righteous way according to the will of God. I believe it is the best way. I just don't believe that any other way is a sin.

I do not care what the Bible says about sexual behavior because I am not a Christian. I have my own religion with its own laws, but even before I joined my religion at age 17, I still believed it was wrong to have sex out of wedlock. That is simply my own moral standard, but I do not impose it upon other people.

None of this is about me or what works for me, it is all about what I believe God wants and what is in accordance with the Laws of God. As a Baha’i I am bound by the laws of my religion but nobody else who is not a Baha’i is bound by these laws.

From the Book of Laws which is the Most Holy Book of the Baha’i Faith:

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

What are some reasons two people will have sex but not be married? Companionship, comfort, health. So, why not marry? It might not be practical. The two might not live together and might not want to. Maybe financially it is not beneficial. Maybe one or both came from a bad relationship and they are worried about making it a second time.

I do not look at sex the way most people so. I consider it sacred, not just for pleasure or comfort. I understand that this seems extreme in modern society where anything goes, but that is my belief.

To be rather blunt, sex is not something people have to have, it is just something they want to have. People need to eat and sleep but they can live without sex.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Actually, there is a correlation. It was a study.

Study: Definite Link between Premarital Sex, Cohabitation, and Divorce | WaitingTillMarriage.org

I never denied there is a correlation. In my previous post, I explained to you that a correlation is not always indicative of a causation, and gave a real-life example of a correlation that is not a causation. I don't mean to be condescending or rude, but if you do not understand the difference between a correlation and a causation, then you can learn the difference by reading my post (#88 in this thread). If you do not believe that I explained the difference well enough, you can find plenty of resources to help you understand, as it is a very simple concept.

 

[savagewind]

I do not care what the Bible says about sexual behavior because I am not a Christian. I have my own religion with its own laws, but even before I joined my religion at age 17, I still believed it was wrong to have sex out of wedlock. That is simply my own moral standard, but I do not impose it upon other people.

None of this is about me or what works for me, it is all about what I believe God wants and what is in accordance with the Laws of God. As a Baha’i I am bound by the laws of my religion but nobody else who is not a Baha’i is bound by these laws.

"God wants". What does that mean to you? I think that if God wants something done a certain way it would not matter what religion a person is.

I think it is honest for you to say that your religion forbids something, but you say GOD forbids something. The God whom I believe in is God over all.

 

[savagewind]

I do not look at sex the way most people so. I consider it sacred, not just for pleasure or comfort. I understand that this seems extreme in modern society where anything goes, but that is my belief.

To be rather blunt, sex is not something people have to have, it is just something they want to have. People need to eat and sleep but they can live without sex.

I understand that and I agree. So, to have some male company must I find a Baha'i man? I trust he would not have me. That means for me to be righteous in the sight of God I should be alone. I don't know if I want to be alone.

 

[savagewind]

I am pretty certain that I can do without sexual intercourse. But, I think that any man who will love me might want it. Do you understand? @Trailblazer

I am NOT going to make him marry me for it. That is just plain mean, imo.

 

[Kenny]

I never denied there is a correlation. In my previous post, I explained to you that a correlation is not always indicative of a causation, and gave a real-life example of a correlation that is not a causation. I don't mean to be condescending or rude, but if you do not understand the difference between a correlation and a causation, then you can learn the difference by reading my post (#88 in this thread). If you do not believe that I explained the difference well enough, you can find plenty of resources to help you understand, as it is a very simple concept.

At this point, again, the study says it was a causation. I understand the difference but the study is a causation and not a correclation.

Unless, that is what you want it to be.

And, of course, there is absolutely no study that says "check your used mate sexual compatibility" makes a successful marriage.