Pre religion

[King Phenomenon]

Is there any scientific evidence that homosexuality was accepted 10,000 years ago? If not, how do you think they were treated?

 

[epronovost]

As mentionnd in another thread, homosexuality or homosexual practices were largely tolerated or even glorified in certan instence in Europe before the spread of Christianity. In Persia and Mesopotamia the situation was fairly similar until the spread of Christianity and Islam. The same is also true for Native Americans before their forced evangelisation. I can't speak on the subject in Asia though.

 

[King Phenomenon]

As mentionnd in another thread, homosexuality or homosexual practices were largely tolerated or even glorified in certan instence in Europe before the spread of Christianity. In Persia and Mesopotamia the situation was fairly similar until the spread of Christianity and Islam. The same is also true for Native Americans before their forced evangelisation. I can't speak on the subject in Asia though.

I've read about homosexuality In Ancient Rome. It doesn't really look like a perfectly ideal situation for a homosexual.

Maybe you're reading one source and I'm reading something different I don't know

 

[sun rise]

As mentionnd in another thread, homosexuality or homosexual practices were largely tolerated or even glorified in certan instence in Europe before the spread of Christianity. In Persia and Mesopotamia the situation was fairly similar until the spread of Christianity and Islam. The same is also true for Native Americans before their forced evangelisation. I can't speak on the subject in Asia though.

Hellenic Greece, for example.

Transgender or transvestite folk are also known in India, hijara, but are typically low caste. A story about them has a "Perfect Master", a God-realized soul as the head of one such group. There are several morals that can be derived from the entire story but one is that society might reject people based on their orientation but God does not. Part of the story goes:

As I said, there are tribes of these people who live together, and their position in society is very low....

And at the time of a wedding or a funeral, these people are paid to come and create a certain atmosphere...They are paid to do this, and so they earn their livelihood that way, and yet they are not respected...

[Meher] Baba told us that in such a community in the city of Lucknow, there was a Perfect Master. In order to uphold this utterly rejected section of humanity, it was ordained that one from that tribe should become a Perfect Master. And so it was. One of the this tribe became Perfect and so, naturally, all of his disciples were also of he tribe...
...

The Leader Was Not An Ordinary Person

 

[oldbadger]

Is there any scientific evidence that homosexuality was accepted 10,000 years ago? If not, how do you think they were treated?

I don't think there was much prejudice about it in the distant past. But providing evidence for such social or humanist situations in the past is very difficult.

How would it help you today?

 

[oldbadger]

I've read about homosexuality In Ancient Rome. It doesn't really look like a perfectly ideal situation for a homosexual.

Maybe you're reading one source and I'm reading something different I don't know

Which source are you reading?

 

[King Phenomenon]

I don't think there was much prejudice about it in the distant past. But providing evidence for such social or humanist situations in the past is very difficult.

How would it help you today?

there's a lot of people who seem to think that all the worlds problems today stem from religion and I don't think that's the case. I think it goes a little bit deeper than that.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Which source are you reading?

Wikipedia

 

[oldbadger]

there's a lot of people who seem to think that all the worlds problems today stem from religion and I don't think that's the case. I think it goes a little bit deeper than that.

Yes...... a bit deeper than that I'd say.
I reckon that 'all the world's problems today stem from Human Beings'.

But I wonder how any answers from our distant past can help today? Why not write a new page for today?
No need to insist that we have to read any forewords about the past, is there?

What many countries are trying to do today is to give freedom to LGBTQIA folks (in fact ALL Folks) over and about their individual sexualities.

The fact is that there is no 'usual' kind of heterosexuality. Every couple is as unique as the couple's fingerprints.

 

[oldbadger]

Wikipedia

It would help if you show us some extracts which interest you.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Yes...... a bit deeper than that I'd say.
I reckon that 'all the world's problems today stem from Human Beings'.

But I wonder how any answers from our distant past can help today? Why not write a new page for today?
No need to insist that we have to read any forewords about the past, is there?

What many countries are trying to do today is to give freedom to LGBTQIA folks (in fact ALL Folks) over and about their individual sexualities.

The fact is that there is no 'usual' kind of heterosexuality. Every couple is as unique as the couple's fingerprints.

Well I've always been told you can't correct something if you don't know what the source of it was. So if we don't think it's religion and all those pages, then perhaps we can write a new page.

 

[King Phenomenon]

It would help if you show us some extracts which interest you.

oh just all the garbage talk about dominant status

 

[Augustus]

Hellenic Greece, for example.

The concept 'homosexual' didn't really exist then.

In terms of sex, the partner who penetrated would not have been stigmatised (or considered to be 'homosexual') but the passive partner would have been stigmatised as effeminate and 'not a real man'.

In Dominion the historian Tom Holland identifies the concept of homosexuality as mostly emerging in Christian culture as part of a trend that also included lifelong monogamy, a women's right to choose her husband, and the notion of sexual consent (sex was only proper in a monogamous marriage, freely entered into by both parties).

 

[epronovost]

The concept 'homosexual' didn't really exist then.

In terms of sex, the partner who penetrated would not have been stigmatised (or considered to be 'homosexual') but the passive partner would have been stigmatised as effeminate and 'not a real man'.

In Dominion the historian Tom Holland identifies the concept of homosexuality as mostly emerging in Christian culture as part of a trend that also included lifelong monogamy, a women's right to choose her husband, and the notion of sexual consent (sex was only proper in a monogamous marriage, freely entered into by both parties).

Ironically this did left the door open for homosexual women who, from the very little we know about them, were generally left unbothered as long as they kept it discrete (by that meaning that didn't affect the status of her husband or father) because lesbian sex wasn't considered "real sex" since there were no penetration.

 

[King Phenomenon]

The concept 'homosexual' didn't really exist then.

In terms of sex, the partner who penetrated would not have been stigmatised (or considered to be 'homosexual') but the passive partner would have been stigmatised as effeminate and 'not a real man'.

In Dominion the historian Tom Holland identifies the concept of homosexuality as mostly emerging in Christian culture as part of a trend that also included lifelong monogamy, a women's right to choose her husband, and the notion of sexual consent (sex was only proper in a monogamous marriage, freely entered into by both parties).

The concept of homosexuality has been around before Christian times and the dominant male led a pretty depraved life if you ask me

 

[King Phenomenon]

Ironically this did left the door open for homosexual women who, from the very little we know about them, were generally left unbothered as long as they kept it discrete (by that meaning that didn't affect the status of her husband or father) because lesbian sex wasn't considered "real sex" since there were no penetration.

Aka in the closet

 

[King Phenomenon]

The concept 'homosexual' didn't really exist then.

In terms of sex, the partner who penetrated would not have been stigmatised (or considered to be 'homosexual') but the passive partner would have been stigmatised as effeminate and 'not a real man'.

In Dominion the historian Tom Holland identifies the concept of homosexuality as mostly emerging in Christian culture as part of a trend that also included lifelong monogamy, a women's right to choose her husband, and the notion of sexual consent (sex was only proper in a monogamous marriage, freely entered into by both parties).

If Christianity never emerged ideology would of still lead To homosexuals being persecuted

 

[King Phenomenon]

As mentionnd in another thread, homosexuality or homosexual practices were largely tolerated or even glorified in certan instence in Europe before the spread of Christianity. In Persia and Mesopotamia the situation was fairly similar until the spread of Christianity and Islam. The same is also true for Native Americans before their forced evangelisation. I can't speak on the subject in Asia though.

Unrelated to the thread

 

[King Phenomenon]

I don't think there was much prejudice about it in the distant past. But providing evidence for such social or humanist situations in the past is very difficult.

How would it help you today?

Why don't you think there was much prejudice?

 

[Heyo]

Is there any scientific evidence that homosexuality was accepted 10,000 years ago? If not, how do you think they were treated?

There have been homophobic and homophilic societies in history but for the era you're looking for there is no history. There also are no archaeological findings that could be linked to homophily. The only chance to have a guess at sexual preferences 10,000 years ago is to look at anthropology. Tribes that lived into the 20th century without outside contact usually had no organized religion but most had some form of animism or shamanism (though not all). Their sexual conduct and taboos are all over the place. Ritualized genital mutilation, polygyny, polyandry, weird coming-of-age rituals, role-based gender identification (instead of the other way around). strict gender separation and open societies. I can't remember studies especially about homophily in these tribes but from the above my guess would be that that would also be all over the place.
Humans are weird and traditions, once started, can be very persistent.