*This is a discussion thread, not an invitation to debate. I simply wish to hear about, gain a deeper understanding of and hopefully fruitfully engage with a range of viewpoints on this question - Trinitarian Christian, non-Trinitarian Christian, atheist, agnostic, Muslim, Jewish, Baha'i or whatever else.*
Q: Do you have any thoughts on the relative merits of - and/or any substantive differences you feel might exist between - 'pre-Nicaea' Christianity versus 'Nicene Christianity' (i.e. the orthodox version of the religion established following Constantine's ecumenical council in 325 CE, which has defined mainstream Christianity ever since?)
(Or phrased differently) do you think that the post-council/post-Constantine era from the fourth century onwards, changed Christianity in any way from its earlier pre-Nicene varieties? And if so, 'how' did it change and was this a positive or negative change in your own opinion?
By 'Nicene Christianity' I am referring to this:
Nicene Christianity - Wikipedia
Every contemporary Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox self-identifying Christian is a 'Nicene Christian' (something like 99% of today's Christians belong to a denominational family espousing this doctrinal tradition, as it was the only one to survive past Roman Emperor Theodosius' Edict of Thessalonica in 380 CE and the decrees of the subsequent ecumenical councils).
For your consideration, regarding the three hundred year span of Ante-Nicene Christianity:
Christianity in the ante-Nicene period - Wikipedia
Q: Do you have any thoughts on the relative merits of - and/or any substantive differences you feel might exist between - 'pre-Nicaea' Christianity versus 'Nicene Christianity' (i.e. the orthodox version of the religion established following Constantine's ecumenical council in 325 CE, which has defined mainstream Christianity ever since?)
(Or phrased differently) do you think that the post-council/post-Constantine era from the fourth century onwards, changed Christianity in any way from its earlier pre-Nicene varieties? And if so, 'how' did it change and was this a positive or negative change in your own opinion?
By 'Nicene Christianity' I am referring to this:
Nicene Christianity - Wikipedia
Nicene Christianity is a set of Christian doctrinal traditions which reflect the Nicene Creed, which was formulated[1] at the First Council of Nicaea in AD 325 and amended at the First Council of Constantinople in AD 381.[2]
Today's mainstream Christian churches (including all of the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian and Ancient churches, Lutheran and Anglican churches, as well as most Protestant denominations) adhere to the Nicene Creed and thus exemplify Nicene Christianity.
Today's mainstream Christian churches (including all of the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian and Ancient churches, Lutheran and Anglican churches, as well as most Protestant denominations) adhere to the Nicene Creed and thus exemplify Nicene Christianity.
Every contemporary Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox self-identifying Christian is a 'Nicene Christian' (something like 99% of today's Christians belong to a denominational family espousing this doctrinal tradition, as it was the only one to survive past Roman Emperor Theodosius' Edict of Thessalonica in 380 CE and the decrees of the subsequent ecumenical councils).
For your consideration, regarding the three hundred year span of Ante-Nicene Christianity:
Christianity in the ante-Nicene period - Wikipedia
Christianity in the ante-Nicene period was the time in Christian history up to the First Council of Nicaea. This article covers the period following the Apostolic Age of the first century, c.100 AD, to Nicaea in 325 AD.
The second and third centuries saw a sharp divorce of Christianity from its early roots in Judaism...
Fourth- and fifth-century Christianity experienced pressure from the government of the Roman Empire and developed strong episcopal and unifying structure. The ante-Nicene period was without such authority and was more diverse. Many variations in this era defy neat categorizations, as various forms of Christianity interacted in a complex fashion.[1] One variation was proto-orthodoxy which became the international Great Church and in this period was defended by the Apostolic Fathers. This was the tradition of Pauline Christianity, which placed importance on the death of Jesus as saving humanity, and described Jesus as God come to Earth. Another major school of thought was Gnostic Christianity, which placed importance on the wisdom of Jesus saving humanity, and described Jesus as a human who became divine through knowledge.[2]
While the Jewish Christian church was centered in Jerusalem in the first century, Gentile Christianity became decentralized in the second century.[3] Various local and provincial ancient church councils were held during this period, with the decisions meeting varying degrees of acceptance by different Christian groups. Major figures of the second century who were later declared by the developing proto-orthodoxy to be heretics were Marcion, Valentinius, and Montanus.
Since the Nicene Creed came to define the Church, the early debates have long been regarded as a unified orthodox position against a minority of heretics. Walter Bauer, drawing upon distinctions between Jewish Christians, Pauline Christians, and other groups such as Gnostics and Marcionites, argued that early Christianity was fragmented, with various competing interpretations, only one of them eventually coming to dominate.[37] While Bauer's original thesis has been criticised, Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman have further explicated the existence of variant Christianities in the first centuries. They see early Christianity as fragmented into contemporaneous competing orthodoxies.[38][39]
Eamon Duffy notes that Christianity throughout the Roman Empire was "in a state of violent creative ferment" during the second century. Orthodoxy, or proto-orthodoxy, existed alongside forms of Christianity that they would soon consider deviant "heresy". Duffy considers the orthodox and unorthodox were sometimes difficult to distinguish during this period, and simply says that early Christianity in Rome had a wide variety of competing Christian sects.[40]
The Ante-Nicene period saw the rise of a great number of Christian sects, cults and movements with strong unifying characteristics lacking in the apostolic period. They had different interpretations of Scripture, particularly different Christology—questions about the divinity of Jesus and salvation from the consequences of sin—and the nature of the Trinity.
Many variations in this time defy neat categorizations, as various forms of Christianity interacted in a complex fashion to form the dynamic character of Christianity in this era. The Post-Apostolic period was extremely diverse both in terms of beliefs and practices. In addition to the broad spectrum of general branches of Christianity, there was constant change and diversity that variably resulted in both internecine conflicts and syncretic adoption.[45]
These various interpretations were called heresies by the leaders of the proto-orthodox church, but many were very popular and had large followings.
The second and third centuries saw a sharp divorce of Christianity from its early roots in Judaism...
Fourth- and fifth-century Christianity experienced pressure from the government of the Roman Empire and developed strong episcopal and unifying structure. The ante-Nicene period was without such authority and was more diverse. Many variations in this era defy neat categorizations, as various forms of Christianity interacted in a complex fashion.[1] One variation was proto-orthodoxy which became the international Great Church and in this period was defended by the Apostolic Fathers. This was the tradition of Pauline Christianity, which placed importance on the death of Jesus as saving humanity, and described Jesus as God come to Earth. Another major school of thought was Gnostic Christianity, which placed importance on the wisdom of Jesus saving humanity, and described Jesus as a human who became divine through knowledge.[2]
While the Jewish Christian church was centered in Jerusalem in the first century, Gentile Christianity became decentralized in the second century.[3] Various local and provincial ancient church councils were held during this period, with the decisions meeting varying degrees of acceptance by different Christian groups. Major figures of the second century who were later declared by the developing proto-orthodoxy to be heretics were Marcion, Valentinius, and Montanus.
Since the Nicene Creed came to define the Church, the early debates have long been regarded as a unified orthodox position against a minority of heretics. Walter Bauer, drawing upon distinctions between Jewish Christians, Pauline Christians, and other groups such as Gnostics and Marcionites, argued that early Christianity was fragmented, with various competing interpretations, only one of them eventually coming to dominate.[37] While Bauer's original thesis has been criticised, Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman have further explicated the existence of variant Christianities in the first centuries. They see early Christianity as fragmented into contemporaneous competing orthodoxies.[38][39]
Eamon Duffy notes that Christianity throughout the Roman Empire was "in a state of violent creative ferment" during the second century. Orthodoxy, or proto-orthodoxy, existed alongside forms of Christianity that they would soon consider deviant "heresy". Duffy considers the orthodox and unorthodox were sometimes difficult to distinguish during this period, and simply says that early Christianity in Rome had a wide variety of competing Christian sects.[40]
The Ante-Nicene period saw the rise of a great number of Christian sects, cults and movements with strong unifying characteristics lacking in the apostolic period. They had different interpretations of Scripture, particularly different Christology—questions about the divinity of Jesus and salvation from the consequences of sin—and the nature of the Trinity.
Many variations in this time defy neat categorizations, as various forms of Christianity interacted in a complex fashion to form the dynamic character of Christianity in this era. The Post-Apostolic period was extremely diverse both in terms of beliefs and practices. In addition to the broad spectrum of general branches of Christianity, there was constant change and diversity that variably resulted in both internecine conflicts and syncretic adoption.[45]
These various interpretations were called heresies by the leaders of the proto-orthodox church, but many were very popular and had large followings.
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