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Featured Praying to God for self benefit

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Conscious thoughts, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Again guidance can be to guide you on the right track, not to take away the problem, how can we learn og every problem er face is remove or solved without our effort?
     
  2. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    This. A million times, this.

    And it's not just to ourselves. Talking to anyone or anything. So much so, that we as software engineers have turned it into a business culture. Literally.

    At our company, on every desk there is a "duck". This is like an action figure, a doll, a picture of somebody, a stuffed animal,... whatever. It can even be a coffee mug, it doesn't matter. But we do insist on a dedicated object. The desk is literally incomplete without the "duck". :)

    The idea behind it is, if you have an engineering problem, are faced with a bug, whatever... that you can't seem to solve or which baffles you.... Before you go running to disturb your colleagues asking for help, explain your problem to the duck first. And assume the duck knows close to nothing about your work, just as the colleague you were about to bother.

    This practice literally boosted productivity of all engineers.
    As you explain your problem to the duck, you gain additional insight because it forces you to step back and give the duck a bigger picture. Many times, this enables you to come up with a solution yourself.
     
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  3. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Out of curiousity and respect for your reply,
    Why is it ok to speak to a rubber duck, but speaking/praying to a God is so far out there :confused:
     
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  4. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    I don't expect the duck to respond. ;-)


    In my worldview, speaking to the duck and speaking to a god has the exact same effect.
    Whatever insight you get from it - which you certainly will on occasion, comes from within you and not from the duck (or god).
     
  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    God answer, but not always in the way we think ( not always in words)
     
  6. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I was a bit quick and added some additional sentences through an edit while you were already responding.

    In any case, I can only repeat myself: you asked how I think one is okay and the other "out there". Well, I don't expect the duck to respond.

    The additional insights we get from talking to this duck (or to god) comes from within ourselves. The underlying cause of that is us going "over the issue" and thinking about our problems through that "conversation" with said duck (or god).


    I think you attribute that to god.
    To me that would be the same as attributing it to the duck.

    The duck serves a real purpose with real effects. There's a reason why all our employees have one on their desk. So do I.

    It's not a magic duck. It doesn't respond.
    If anything, the whole thing is an exploit of human psychology. :)
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    A lot of non-religious people say they would keep someone in mind when one needs soothing words rather than say I pray for you. Maybe the focus should be on the intention since many people from various religions pray and not all to or directly to god.
     
  8. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    I don't pray. I wouldn't know how to.
    And I believe that God is so vast that God is unaware of tiny me.
    I have only myself, my friends, and any luck that might pass by.
    :)
     
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You mean Salat or Duaa?
     
  10. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    All form for prayer, not only the prayer for muslims :)
     
  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    But again, did you mean Salat or Duaa?

    The English word prayer is not good enough because it could mean any of these two. It seems like you mean Duaa, but not Salat.
     
  12. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Both salat and duaa are important
    I dont use arabic words much in RF due to the majority of non muslims. If i spesific speak about Islam it will be noted in the OP.
     
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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I thought you said "Allah" so I guessed you were referring to your personal experience, and you are claiming to be a Muslim.

    Nevertheless, it is simple to make any reader clear.

    Salat: A ritualistic prayer performed by most of the Muslims as an offering and/of remembrance of the God and the unseen.
    Duaa: Supplication

    Done.

    So which one were you referring to?
     
  14. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I pray occasionally because it comforts me, but I don't expect an answer.

    I would say this much though, if you believe God can help you materially why not ask for your wants and needs?

    Sure we should strive to fulfill them ourself, but if we don't ask for help to have our wants / needs to be fulfilled is it because we subconsciously doubt the ability of God?
     
  15. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    We can pray and ask God for healing or assistance. That is fine but it is not the highest form of prayer.

    According to our Writings it says that:

    “WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise. Thus and thus alone should be the worship which befitteth the one True God.

    Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.”

    Selections from the Writings of the Báb
    The Báb

    In the highest prayer, men pray only for the love of God, not because they fear Him or hell, or hope for bounty or heaven. ….(Abdul-Baha)
     
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  16. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Both. We should not pray for personal gain, or should say a sufi should not pray for personal gain, only for guidance and praise to Allah
     
  17. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    For me as a sufi muslim the 5 mandatory prayer each day is of course the main prayer, than duaa but according to sufi teaching there are other extra prayers one can do. So if i wanted i could pray every day in every moment.

    As a non arabic speaker my self, i use very little arabic words especially in RF, i know some people find this to be unheard of or wrong practice, and yes i do have to learn arabic fully to have full benefit of all aspects of islam, Allah expect of me to rise my game and do ask Allah ask s of me. Unfortunatly arabic is a difficult language to learn. And i do not wish to use words i do not understand my self.
    Sometimes og you expect a deep discussion of the meaning of every single arabic words used in islam, i am not there yet :) but humbly working on it every day.
     
  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Matt Dilahunty once quite funnily goofed "why is it so important to learn arabic... I mean, can't God speak english?"

    :D
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    What do you mean by pray? It’s a simple question really. Just pick one of the two brother. You understand what I am referring to. By saying both you are mixing the two. Salat is not anyway prescribed by any school of thought for any personal gain whatsoever anyway.
     
  20. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I think you misunderstand the OP, any form of prayer, in any religion should not be practiced to gain physical/material gain. Å prayer should be to praise the God one chose to follow. Yes i am personally a sufi muslim. Who pray salah 5 times a day. Salah is a prayer. No need to make it so difficult.

    Personally i do not know what religion you practice or why you pick on every aspect of someones way of practice. I follow the guidance of my teacher so og you disagree with what i say in RF, that is ok. My only concern is to understand my teacher and do the things he ask of me.
     
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