Prayer: The Miracle of a Literal Super-Power

[McBell]

Well, at least you can admit that you have no factual basis for what you believe. It's all theoretical jargon based on presupposed assumptions.

Seeing as you have no idea what I believe, you are merely talking out your backside.

But I see you have no problem ignoring truth and facts.

 

[QuestioningMind]

You're deflecting an awful lot, and seem really angry. It's okay to dislike ideas and not pray to any God, but you seem to have an incredible disdain for people.

The example given was, "why can't God give me a promotion when I pray for it". Somehow you've twisted that to be "feed and house" a family. Tell me, are they starving and homeless already, or do you need a handout to prevent such conditions in an uncertain future?

It's time for you to be honest. You don't actually have an open mind to pray to The Lord. You just want to be argumentative and attack others, rather be even the slightest bit introspective.

Okay, you REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension.

I wrote:

"I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever that prayer has ever actually worked. I can 'pray' that I get a job I've applied for and when I end up getting it conclude that God answered my 'prayer'. But of course that doesn't rule out the possibility that I might have just been the most qualified person to apply and would have gotten the job whether I 'prayed' or not."

I NEVER said 'why can't God give me a promotion when I pray for it.' First off I mention getting a JOB, not a promotion. And in my example I GOT the job, so I certainly didn't ask why God DIDN'T give me the job. In my example I suggested that I ACCEPTED that God answered my prayer... my question was, how would I know if I got the job because I prayed for it or if I just happened to be most qualified and would have gotten the job regardless of my prayer.

And since many people do have jobs in order to feed and house their family, I'm hardly 'twisting' anything to suggest that in my example I wanted the job for that reason.

As for having disdain for people, I rarely if ever do. I do however have some disdain for this attitude you've taken from the start. I asked simple valid questions and YOU insist of being the one who 'twists' the meaning to support some argument that I'm not even making. It appears that it's you who have a closed mind.

 

[QuestioningMind]

No. Even the demons believe in God!

James 2:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

That would depend on what they ask for.

John 16:23-24 (ESV Strong's) 23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. 24 Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

James 4:2-3 (ESV Strong's) 2 You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.

"No. Even the demons believe in God!"

What are you responding to? Where in my post did I even mention belief in God?

 

[Grumpuss]

Okay, you REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension.

I wrote:

"I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever that prayer has ever actually worked. I can 'pray' that I get a job I've applied for and when I end up getting it conclude that God answered my 'prayer'. But of course that doesn't rule out the possibility that I might have just been the most qualified person to apply and would have gotten the job whether I 'prayed' or not."

I NEVER said 'why can't God give me a promotion when I pray for it.' First off I mention getting a JOB, not a promotion. And in my example I GOT the job, so I certainly didn't ask why God DIDN'T give me the job. In my example I suggested that I ACCEPTED that God answered my prayer... my question was, how would I know if I got the job because I prayed for it or if I just happened to be most qualified and would have gotten the job regardless of my prayer.

It's your reading comprehension that needs help. In your hypotheticals, you're asking God to give you more glory and more material wealth (through higher salary). People don't pray for such things. God is not your 'Santa Claus' person who rewards people who merely ask for things for their own gain.

Also, if you were the best qualified applicant, why would you bother to pray at all? Speaks of insecurity. God has your back, but not in that way.

And since many people do have jobs in order to feed and house their family, I'm hardly 'twisting' anything to suggest that in my example I wanted the job for that reason.

Uh huh. And I'm sure this applies equally to you, Bernie Madoff and the guy who flips burgers at your local Jack-in-the-Box. Nice try.

As for having disdain for people, I rarely if ever do. I do however have some disdain for this attitude you've taken from the start. I asked simple valid questions and YOU insist of being the one who 'twists' the meaning to support some argument that I'm not even making. It appears that it's you who have a closed mind.

You seem to be taking personal offense in what the power of prayer is capable of doing for others. Did you experience some great personal loss, in that you angrily seek out others' religion to blame. If so, I feel for you and your loss. Much as in the Kübler-Ross model, or the five stages of grief, you have to move past denial and anger, into your depression and bargaining, before acceptance can be achieved.

I shall endeavor to pray for you.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Also, if you were the best qualified applicant, why would you bother to pray at all? Speaks of insecurity. God has your back, but not in that way.

Hold on, Christians pray to the deity to pass exams, succeed in work related projects, Christian sports people pray to win sporting contests. Are you saying they are wasting their time, and should instead focus on their own strengths and abilities?

 

[Grumpuss]

Hold on, Christians pray to the deity to pass exams, succeed in work related projects, Christian sports people pray to win sporting contests. Are you saying they are wasting their time, and should instead focus on their own strengths and abilities?

I don't know all these people. And neither, I suspect, do you.

Praying to do well, is not the same as praying to be given more glory and material wealth.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I don't know all these people. And neither, I suspect, do you.

Well you don't need to know everyone to know what goes on in the world do you? I was a Christian in my youth, and yes I did pray for success in exams, and I'm pretty damn sure every other believer was on their knees the night before the final exams.

Praying to do well, is not the same as praying to be given more glory and material wealth.

Grumps, that is pretty contrived. People pray to "do well" because they are hoping for "more glory and material wealth". Then they can give "the glory back to god" right? Proves what an attentive and generous deity "he" is to those who are faithful, correct?

 

[Grumpuss]

Well you don't need to know everyone to know what goes on in the world do you? I was a Christian in my youth, and yes I did pray for success in exams, and I'm pretty damn sure every other believer was on their knees the night before the final exams.

Too bad it doesn't work that way. Perhaps that's how pagan worked: pray to Toutatis and he'll protect the tribe, make tribute to Athena and she'll make you rich, sacrifice a child to Pazuzu and he'll allow you conquer & enslave your enemies, etc. If your motivation was to earn a good grade to be successful in your college career or fear from failure, then it's not readily compatible with God.

Grumps, that is pretty contrived. People pray to "do well" because they are hoping for "more glory and material wealth". Then they can give "the glory back to god" right? Proves what an attentive and generous deity "he" is to those who are faithful, correct?

A rather conceited world view, and I reject that entirely. Doing one's best for the sake of doing one's best is God's reward. If there is an expectation of glory and material wealth, then you're talking about pride and greed.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Too bad it doesn't work that way. Perhaps that's how pagan worked: pray to Toutatis and he'll protect the tribe, make tribute to Athena and she'll make you rich, sacrifice a child to Pazuzu and he'll allow you conquer & enslave your enemies, etc. If your motivation was to earn a good grade to be successful in your college career or fear from failure, then it's not readily compatible with God.

Hold on, you have accused me of seeming to know a lot about the 'mind' of god, who says you are right about that? The bible has plenty of examples of the deity rewarding the "righteous" with material prosperity. Smiting personal enemies is something else the deity does, like the children mauled by a couple of bears for calling Elisha "baldy" right? He cursed them, the deity mobilised a couple of bears in response.

A rather conceited world view, and I reject that entirely. Doing one's best for the sake of doing one's best is God's reward. If there is an expectation of glory and material wealth, then you're talking about pride and greed.

Doing one's best is an ethic I'd agree with, but not because I read about it in a holy book. I live in a wealthy (and thankfully largely secular) first world country. I realise I am incredibly privileged compared to a large percentage of the world's population. I couldn't live with myself if I was the sort of person who whined about my first world problems and went on about my "right" to expect a certain quality of life. That was not the attitude of our predecessors who got us to this happy place, I feel obliged to continue their legacy by doing my best, no deity, no holy book required.

 

[Grumpuss]

Hold on, you have accused me of seeming to know a lot about the 'mind' of god, who says you are right about that? The bible has plenty of examples of the deity rewarding the "righteous" with material prosperity. Smiting personal enemies is something else the deity does, like the children mauled by a couple of bears for calling Elisha "baldy" right? He cursed them, the deity mobilised a couple of bears in response.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you asserting you are as good as the people in the Bible? Or are you just referencing disjointed, out-of-context parts of Scripture for some arcane reason?

Doing one's best is an ethic I'd agree with, but not because I read about it in a holy book. I live in a wealthy (and thankfully largely secular) first world country. I realise I am incredibly privileged compared to a large percentage of the world's population. I couldn't live with myself if I was the sort of person who whined about my first world problems and went on about my "right" to expect a certain quality of life. That was not the attitude of our predecessors who got us to this happy place, I feel obliged to continue their legacy by doing my best, no deity, no holy book required.

Well good for you! Now leave others that would pray alone.

 

[QuestioningMind]

It's your reading comprehension that needs help. In your hypotheticals, you're asking God to give you more glory and more material wealth (through higher salary). People don't pray for such things. God is not your 'Santa Claus' person who rewards people who merely ask for things for their own gain.

Also, if you were the best qualified applicant, why would you bother to pray at all? Speaks of insecurity. God has your back, but not in that way.

Uh huh. And I'm sure this applies equally to you, Bernie Madoff and the guy who flips burgers at your local Jack-in-the-Box. Nice try.

You seem to be taking personal offense in what the power of prayer is capable of doing for others. Did you experience some great personal loss, in that you angrily seek out others' religion to blame. If so, I feel for you and your loss. Much as in the Kübler-Ross model, or the five stages of grief, you have to move past denial and anger, into your depression and bargaining, before acceptance can be achieved.

I shall endeavor to pray for you.

Please DO point out where I said I was praying for 'more glory' and 'more material wealth'? Is asking God to help you so you can feed and house your family praying for 'glory'? Is simple food and house 'material wealth' as far as your concerned or is it the basic minimum that people need to survive? How is asking for the means to support my family asking for things for 'my own gain'?

"Also, if you were the best qualified applicant, why would you bother to pray at all?" As an applicant I would NOT know who else is applying for the job, so how would I POSSIBLY know that I'm the most qualified? You don't have a very solid grasp of logic, do you?

Actually YOU are the one who seems to take personal offense simply because I asked how do I know if I got the job because of my prayer or because of my qualifications. Since you've made absolutely ZERO effort to address that question and instead attack me for being SO selfish as to pray for work so I can support my family. I can only conclude that you don't have a clue whether or not your prayers are actually being answered or not.

Do you really have such weak faith that my asking a simple question threatens you so much? How sad.

 

[Grumpuss]

Please DO point out where I said I was praying for 'more glory' and 'more material wealth'? Is asking God to help you so you can feed and house your family praying for 'glory'? Is simple food and house 'material wealth' as far as your concerned or is it the basic minimum that people need to survive? How is asking for the means to support my family asking for things for 'my own gain'?

Since when is a promotion the only means to do such a thing?

"Also, if you were the best qualified applicant, why would you bother to pray at all?" As an applicant I would NOT know who else is applying for the job, so how would I POSSIBLY know that I'm the most qualified? You don't have a very solid grasp of logic, do you?

It was your statement of superlative, not mine.

Actually YOU are the one who seems to take personal offense simply because I asked how do I know if I got the job because of my prayer or because of my qualifications. Since you've made absolutely ZERO effort to address that question and instead attack me for being SO selfish as to pray for work so I can support my family. I can only conclude that you don't have a clue whether or not your prayers are actually being answered or not.

Do you really have such weak faith that my asking a simple question threatens you so much? How sad.

And yet, here you are, pretending to take great offense. Just move on sir, if the mere existence of a thread causes you such incredible pain. I will not temper my words or remove my thread, no matter how many demands are made.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Since when is a promotion the only means to do such a thing?

It was your statement of superlative, not mine.

And yet, here you are, pretending to take great offense. Just move on sir, if the mere existence of a thread causes you such incredible pain. I will not temper my words or remove my thread, no matter how many demands are made.

My, what a delusional world you live in. I NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about getting a promotion, yet you KEEP using that word. An unemployed person looking for a job isn't hoping for a PROMOTION, they just want a job. I suppose I COULD rob a bank in order to provide for my family, but getting a job is definitely what I would try... I don't know about you.

As for your original post, there was nothing at all offensive about it. I thought it was interesting and asked you a question about how you determine when or if God intervened to answer your prayers. Your responses since then HAVE been offensive. You blatantly lied about what I wrote. You suggested that I was 'blaming God' for not answering my prayer when I NEVER said such a thing... I in fact claimed that God DID answer my prayer.

Again, your extreme defensiveness suggest a VERY weak faith on your part. You see a mere question as an attack. It's sad and rather pathetic.

 

[Grumpuss]

Don't bother-- I'd rather have people who at least try to act morally pray for me.

Goodbye.

My, what a delusional world you live in. I NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about getting a promotion, yet you KEEP using that word. An unemployed person looking for a job isn't hoping for a PROMOTION, they just want a job.

Same difference. Presumably you would be trying to get as good a job as you could, maximizing compensation and security. Not merely looking for a day-laborer's work. After all, in your example, you're "desperate", trying to stave off starvation and homelessness for your family. But nevermind, please continue your mock outrage that you would never, ever, ever try to advance in a career...

I suppose I COULD rob a bank in order to provide for my family, but getting a job is definitely what I would try... I don't know about you.

Theft has been justified in the past as a means to feed one's family. I've not heard of anyone praying to God to be a better bank robber, or for the bank heist to have a huge payday, but perhaps you have.

As for your original post, there was nothing at all offensive about it. I thought it was interesting and asked you a question about how you determine when or if God intervened to answer your prayers. Your responses since then HAVE been offensive. You blatantly lied about what I wrote. You suggested that I was 'blaming God' for not answering my prayer when I NEVER said such a thing... I in fact claimed that God DID answer my prayer.

Hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep at night.

Again, your extreme defensiveness suggest a VERY weak faith on your part. You see a mere question as an attack. It's sad and rather pathetic.

Don't you find your need to always have the last word some kind of sick compulsion? I had a great uncle once who habitually had to turn the lights off three times before he turned them out for good. But he was very old, and possibly had dementia.

 

[DavidFirth]

Seeing as you have no idea what I believe, you are merely talking out your backside.

But I see you have no problem ignoring truth and facts.

You have no facts. The fact that you think you do tells me how unintelligent you are.

 

[Milton Platt]

It's well-recognized that there are many things in our collective universe that cannot be adequately explained by science.

Whether or not you follow an organized religion and have been blessed with the feeling of God's love, you will know that experience of deep meaning and understanding upon witnessing a birth or seeing a perfect sunrise/sunset.

Communing with God provides a special connection to our universe and eliminating the awful feelings of confusion and loneliness that the lost and soulless are cursed with. There is ample evidence that people who pray regularly live longer, are happier and are more free from demon curses of drug abuse and sexual perversion.

Behold the recent story of a pastor brought back from the brink of certain death, only by the prayer of those around the world that loved her:

Miracle Healing, Released by the Power of Prayer, Touches Comatose Pastor on the Verge of Death

Prayer is a literal super-power that can heal wounds, save lives and reverse fortune. When you pray, do you expect that God will hear your prayers and answer them in His own way, or do you do so, "just in case"? If you used to pray, but have stopped later in life, do you make the distinction between praying super-powers for yourself and others versus fantasy superpowers such as Spider-man or Aquaman possess? To me, it is wondrous that we have such a tool at our disposal, yet sad that we do not make more frequent use of it; if more people prayed regularly, there would be less war, famine, deviance and strife afflicting our beautiful world.

How do you know it was prayer and not medication and/or her immune system that reversed the pneumonia. People recover from that affliction all the time?

 

[Grumpuss]

How do you know it was prayer and not medication and/or her immune system that reversed the pneumonia. People recover from that affliction all the time?

Indeed they do. But the OP was about uterine cancer, culminating in pneumonia, blood clots and multiple organ failure.

 

[Milton Platt]

Indeed they do. But the OP was about uterine cancer, culminating in pneumonia, blood clots and multiple organ failure.

Right...I read the article twice. She recovered from pneumonia and her organs were functioning. But she was still fragile and there was no mention of cancer remission.

My question was how can you determine what happened because of medical care and what was "miraculous"?

 

[Grumpuss]

Right...I read the article twice. She recovered from pneumonia and her organs were functioning. But she was still fragile and there was no mention of cancer remission.

My question was how can you determine what happened because of medical care and what was "miraculous"?

I'm not a medical professional, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume the pneumonia was a symptom/complication of the underlying condition/disease: uterine cancer.

Medicine can't explain some kinds of recovery. There have been many documented cases, where a death sentence has effectively been signed, and the patient goes on to live a long, happy life. In many of these cases, the person prayed.

 

[Milton Platt]

I'm not a medical professional, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume the pneumonia was a symptom/complication of the underlying condition/disease: uterine cancer.

Medicine can't explain some kinds of recovery. There have been many documented cases, where a death sentence has effectively been signed, and the patient goes on to live a long, happy life. In many of these cases, the person prayed.

And in many, they prayed to a different god, or did not pray and recovered. Also, doctors cannot see the future perfectly. They make predictions that are incorrect. All that aside, my challenge was for you to tell me the difference between the result of prayer and simply an unlikely outcome.